The Fiero is Alive and WELL. In fact Better than EVER!!! I just finished the DREADED -Timing Gear Replacement- on my '84 SE 2m4. And Damned if it didn't start on the Very First Crank. I guess I did it Right afterall. I celebrated with a huge stogie.
A BIG Thanks!!! to everyone that responded to my previous questions. Without the help of the Forum Members this repair would have cost me Over a Grand. Instead I managed to do it for Under $100 (including buying a set of 3 ton jack stands). A word of advice for anyone who wants to try this repair--BUY THE METAL GEARS--There really is NO difference in sound after they are installed. CarParts.com has a set mfg. by "Melling" for about $40 (delivered). Their shipping is a little slower but it is a BIG saving over "other" FieroStore(s)
The "peace-of-mind" you get with metal is Worth the extra effort. I actually managed to do my repair with the engine & cam ON and I didn't even have to drop the cradle. Impossible you say...Not really. It CAN be done with the proper tools and a lot of patience.
By way of a side note. This car has been my Daily Driver, since I bought it over 6 years, and 100K miles, ago. It is still one of the BEST damned cars that I have EVER owned. Maintenance is the key...keep that oil changed and these cars run forever.
Like ANYTHING in life you get OUT what you put IN. Just don't expect to ..."run with the big dogs". It's just a Pup after all, but Even a pup can Nip urrr a-- when your back is turned.

Good story! If you did that change without messing with the cradle, you're far above a lot of other stories I've heard! The cradle can be a pain to mess with if it is your first time...

Whats the average life of those gears? I've never had to replace mine, nor do I ever think it has been replaced. My car has 225,000 miles on it. But, I am putting in a V6 in a month or so, so I'll be ok, hopefully!

I was told by several members that the "average" lifespan for the stock gears--the "plastic" one's-- is about 120k miles. Which isn't bad, all things considered. Mine failed, DEAD STOP, at 155K, but I tend to baby the car. From what I've heard these metal sets last literally forever. And for $40 bucks and some labor-like I said- it's well worth the investment, knowing that I will never have to do this repair again.

So how exactly did you get the cam out without dropping the cradle? I did the same job about a year ago in my 1987 4-banger (daily driver). I had to jack up the rear end almost 2 feet, remove the 2 rear engine cradle bolts (among other things), and swing the drivetrain and cradle down like a big hinge.

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Tweaktech

Blacktree...I didn't remove the cam, And - I didn't have to lower the cradle. Everything was done with the engine in it's "normal" operating position. All access was gained by making 2 small holes within the wheel well area (after removing the splash guards).
It is a Very LONG process to describe and I am thinking of posting it sometime when I have time to write it all out. Basically, what I had to do was jack the car up--one side at a time, and put 2 (3 ton)jackstands under the cradle support beams to hold up the back end. Then I removed the passenger side wheel, splash grards, etc. and used a steering wheel puller to remove the pulley/harmonic balancer. Then I removed the Timing Gear cover, cracked off what was left of the broken plastic timing gear and cut the metal center off with a dremel tool with a cut off wheel. Being sure to block the lower access to the oil pan(with rags) is essental to prevent getting chips and filings into the oil pan. Also be sure to change the oil and filter to be sure that any "fragments" from the broken timing gear teeth are out of the oil pan. My fragments were all under the cover (actually just 2 "teeth"--hardly seemed like enough to stop the car but it was) The crankshaft gear just "slips" off.
To install the metal gear I drilled and tapped the center of the camshaft and used a bolt, nut and thick washer to "press" the new timing gear onto the camshaft. NO "pounding" it on. The crankshaft gear had to be installed simultaneously as the timing gear slowly got pressed on. It just needed a slight push to "follow" the timing gear into place.
With the metal gears there is a small "dot" on each to align the syncro between cam and crankshaft. You can also loosely reattach the pulley and harmonic balancer on the crankshaft to insure that you have the marks on the gears in their "correct" TDC position.
Then just remove the puller/balancer to continue.
As mentioned above I made a hole in the wheel well "wall" with a series of small connecting drill holes, about 2" in diameter to gain access to drill and tap the camshaft end.
After the gears where installed just reattach the timing gear cover with RTV sealant and reattach the belt, battery, and splash guards, and lower the car. It took some "ingenuity" to figure it out but hell, it beats the S--T out of paying some mechanic $75.00 per hour to do a "12 hour" job (plus - parts). Like I said in my first post-- 2 different garages quoted me a price of $1000.00 (Plus)...to do the job that I did myself for about $100.00. The proper tools and technique are the key.
I drove it about a hundred miles today and it really does drive better now than when I first bought it 6 years ago. And despite what you may have heard if you don't damage the metal gears during installation there is NO difference in the sound of the engine, between metal and plastic timing gears. I sleep better knowing I now have metal there.
Who knows I may reach "another" 150K.
P.S. While you have the wheel off check for "rust through" in the trunk area. That's usually where it starts. I had some, and I fabricated a sheetmetal "patch" and attached it with pop rivets to reinforce the area. I also did a little rust proofing in the area to help slow down the inevitable decay.

There is one thing you forgot to mention...how long did it take YOU?????

Fieroman

[This message has been edited by fieroman_5000 (edited 12-14-2001).]

Sounds like a ot of work, but from what youve said, you did an excellent job. Id hate to try and change the timing(chain) on a v6 the way you did....

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Tyler Morgan, 1986 GT

Aftermarket Power Steering, Rebuilt 2.8
http://www.geocities.com/mtyler14/index.html

I will have to estimate the ammount of time that the job took me to complete because I didn't do it "all at once". Bacause I had to wait for the gears to arrive which took about a week. But if you have all of the necessary tools at hand and have the replacement gears there, before you begin the job, I would guess that it is about a 6 or 7 hour job (without a "Miller Time" break). The one thing that makes the job into a 24 hour --post replacement-- process is having to wait for the sealant around the timing gear cover to "cure" properly. The sealant actually "dries" in about an hour (according to the package) but it also says that to properly cure, it takes 24 hours. I didn't even replace the oil until the seal was completely cured. ALSO-- while I had the timing gear cover Off I replaced the SEAL that surrounds the crankshaft where it comes through the cover and attaches to the harmonic balancer/pulley. It was a cheap seal to replace and it prevents oil from leaking out of the cover at that point. Any anything that prevents oil leakage is-- as Martha Stewart would say......as GOOD thing. But she's a dumba-- so who really cares what she thinks, besides if I had that broads cash I wouldn't be doing my own car repairs, but I'd STILL own a FIERO.

A really informative posst, Count. Maybe you can edit the subject to reflect what it relates to so we can easily find it in an archive search in the future. Any concern about the hole you drilled in the cam weakening it?

In response to the question about the "hole" that was drilled into the camshaft end: It might be more accurate to have said that the hole is only a SLIGHT enlargement in the natural hole that already exists in the cam shaft end. All that is required is a VERY slight Enlargement of the hole that is already there, in order to "tap" threads into the end of the camshaft. The increase in the Depth is also VERY slight. The total depth of the threaded hole is only enough to get about a HALF inch of threads inside, in order to get a good tight fit on the bolt, which is used to "PULL" the timing gear onto the camshaft. I am certain that there is NO significant weakening to the camshaft itself as a result of having threaded-- or enlarged--the hole. If I can find my notes I will post the exact drill and tap size involved.
The existing "hole" or whatever you might call it, in the end of the camshaft is probably there from when the camshaft was manufactured-- for purposes of turning it on a lathe, etc. All that is needed is to enlarge it enough ( which is VERY slightly) to get a conventional tap inside far enough to give a good foothold for the bolt which is used to pull the gear onto the camshaft.
I imagine that if you wanted to, you could use some lock tite and "leave" the lower part of the bolt IN the camshaft end and grind off the upper part of the bolt (flush)after the timing gear has been installed. That way there would be absolutely NO possibility of ANY weakening occurring in the camshaft end itself. I Didn't do that because It wasn't a concern. But it could be done.
I'm happy to see that there is interest in this topic, bacause from what I have heard the Timing Gear Replacement Issue has been the cause of MANY Fiero's being sent to the bone yard. Which is a PITY--unless you are one of the industrious "junkyard warriors" luck enough to find one there that just needs THIS job done and nothing else. Also--if you find one in the classifieds --CHEAP-- because someone got a $1000.00 quote to do this job, from their local garage mechanic, and then decided it's better to "sell off" the fiero... Now you can FIX IT YOURSELF--CHEAP-- and get a Nice car. I know that there are probably ALOT of Fieros out there just WAITING for this repair. And saving $900.00 (+) is as Eric Cartman would say... "Sweeeeet!!!"