I want a fiero capable of 10 seconds. Besides the engine what do i need to make this work, like what trans would work best and anything like that. power is not a problem with what I plan on doing to the lt1 adn I will be driving this on the street so I am looking for something that will handle nice so i was going to get the brake upgrade and coilover suspension....this good idea? Also can you switch out the 2.88 axle ratio from an automatic fiero into a 5 speed??? dont know how the trans works so just asking.

So far it seems that a 12 second Fiero is the most reasonably achieveable within some form of budget. To get 10 seconds you have to do some fairly radical engine/suspension mods. Our cars are good in the twisties. 1/4 mile racing is for sissies . AutoX it.

Sounds like way more fun...

^{Note: The above opinion was in no way that of an expert. I've merely been observing the forum for more than a year now; and this seems to be the consensus.}

------------------

^{The Black Beauty (85 GT) - Bustedato (86 SE, Parts car)
Nobody likes a loser, be a cheater.}
WANT TO TRADE: '85 GT for a decent small truck. (Mazda B-Series or the like)
^{needin' something better for winter}
I_R_Sootah@hotmail.com

"10 seconds" thats easy you can do it with your 2.8

just run 1/8 miles

A 10 second Fiero is a pretty tall order.

It takes a very healthy V8 to get it into 12's

A very healty V8 with lots of NAWWWZZZ ( haha, just had to jump on the bandwagon and say it that way...;p) to get it into 11's

10's? Would take something really serious, and I doubt it would be streetable.

------------------

1988GT T-Tops, 5spd, Loaded

I doubt if you will achieve a 10 second 1/4 mile in a Fiero with anything but a small block Chevy V8 and even that will be quite a chore.
The only ten second 1/4 mile Fiero that I have heard of is/was owned by Pat Ciarcia of C&C Performance in Mt. Pocono, PA. Pat ran a modified carbureted SBC V8 that also had a 200 HP Nitrous kit. I don't have details on what suspension he used but Pat used a modified TH-125H tranny which quite remarkably held up for four drag racing seasons. In short the car was specially built with all of the right parts
I don't know what became of the car or if Pat is still racing it. You might defer this question to Archie as he knows the guy and used one of his kits.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

GO to 1/8 mile drag strip. (Just having a little fun) ---alf

You only need a couple of things to make ANY Fiero a 10 second Fiero...

One Gigantic ACME Rubber Band and a pair of big trees.

Seriously, why don't I hear more posts like "How can I make my Fiero handle better?"

... and they say the Fast and the Furious had ZERO impact on the "Street scene".

DKOV -

http://www.v8archie.com/pat.htm

------------------

How many engines were you planning on using?
And where were you planning on putting them?
LOL.......

Seriously......as stated above....it can be done if you have an unlimited budget. A 12 sec Fiero would be alot more fun cause it would be street driveable........even that will cost lots of money....Good luck!

Phil

------------------
If you find my replies helpful, please take the time to give me a positive rating. Thanks.
GTDude
OVER 25 years GM experience

Add two JATO Rockets!!! Then you still have a very streetable car, just bolt them back on for the next run.

your only problem is the Tranny. Archie usuaully beefs up the automatic for his v-8 applications but for a 10 sec fiero.... It can be done but you would need to send it to a really good professional transmision shop. They can make it stronger and put in a higher gear ratio but you got have a lot of $$$ for it. Unless you feel like replacing the tranny few months

------------------

--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: GTFiero
What oil leak? That puddle under the car is just sweat from all that horsepower.

10-second fiero

------------------

quote Originally posted by 88formula: 10-second fiero

LMAO!!! It's a keeper!

Why do you guys think that a 10 second car would not be streetable. I know lots of people that drive 10 second cars on the street. And those are 3500 to 4000 lb cars. A 2900LB car would need way less HP. If you are worried about breaking then forget it, but most people who build fast cars accept the risk of breaking. Even a rear wheel drive car running a "built" tranny and a ford 9" rear end is going to break once and a while. And for future reference 450 hp is not that impressive out of a small block. I know people making 600 and up, before nitrous. To anyone who wants to build a 10 second fiero, go do it. Fuk the naysayers to quote fieroX, no one believed that a 3800SC Fiero would ever run 11's and guess what he just ran a 12.1 and he is not done yet. The reason there are no really fast fiero's is because most people on this board knock down the ideas of those who have goals. If you have the money and the dream, go get it.
ICY
12 second 3800 Fiero

It all depends what you call "streetable." These guys running 10-second muscle usually have stupid rear-ends (4.11-5.66), locked spools (NASTY in turns) and zero gas mileage on race gas...

You call that streetable?

5mpg, NO vacuum at idle, VERY touchy high-stall converter (or chattery clutch), ZERO-emissions compliance...

These do not combine to form what I'd call a "streetable" experience.

However, if you can live with these traits, then yeah, it's "streetable."

quote Originally posted by LFiero67: The reason there are no really fast fiero's is because most people on this board knock down the ideas of those who have goals. If you have the money and the dream, go get it. ICY 12 second 3800 Fiero

In reference to 10 second quarters or low ET V6's. I don't think too many people said it couldn't be done. It just a matter of "Is it a smart thing to do?" If all you care about is a fast ET, there are better cars that perform the quarter better than the Fiero, and have Performance Parts Suppliers to back them up.

I would guess that you feel there's no fast Fiero's because you haven't ridden in one that properly setup. Curves are a lot more full than a short straight line.

I am going to agree with Lfiero67 on this one because I have seen many f-bodies that run low elevens and high 10's that are perfectly streetable. I honestly think the people who actually know something should only post to stuf like this or the people making jokes (like the rocket fiero, heh). A motor that pulls low 11's high 10's in an f-body would run friggin 9's in a fiero but then there is the issue of the trans etc... I think there are porsche transaxles that you can use arent there?

Yes, you could use a Porsche transaxle which would require mounting your engine longitudinally (and therefore cutting your trunk). It can be done, but a lot of people haven't done it. If the transaxle and differential can handle the power, you're all set.

Fiero lt1, I know your frustration about now! You asked what you thought was a simple question and got flamed - or as close as one can come to it without smelling his eyebrows burning! My thread on basically the same subject in GFC started the same way, but eventually turned positive - after all the naysayers aired their opinions and the real discussion began. Now 135 posts later I am encouraged and chasing my dream. It was rough sailing for the first few days though! I almost sold my Fieros and bought a Chevette! (kidding)

I'm even crazy enough to shoot for the nines, in a car that will HANDLE as well! That's the reason I am building the car - to have a serious drag racer that turns and stops. The tranny does seem to be the weak link and I plan to have some solutions to this and the driveshafts as I progress.

Build your car! To begin it will cost you less than building a conventional drag racer. The cost will ramp up significantly when you are forced to deal with the transmission issue. Performance costs - no matter what you're working with! A properly set up 9-inch rear for a f/r car starts around a grand. The best tranny for a street-legal drag car in f/r is a Powerglide which can run 4-5K for the best with a trick converter. My point is no matter which way you go it costs to be fast, so do what makes sense to you. People said the front-drivers were crazy too. "Why not just build a conventional drag car", they screamed! "You're wasting your money", they cried! "It'll never hook", they proclaimed! Now, they're flying and most of the Doubting Thomases are incredibly silent! Which brings me to my last point:

Many of the same parts that have been developed for them will work for us - with some slight modding - remember our cars have complete f/f cradles back there! The difference? Ours will hook like velcro and turn like the Batmobile!!!

------------------

http://phitown.com" TARGET=_blank rel="nofollow">http://phitown.com

Actually alot of 10 second cars are very streetable. A locker rear end and 5 MPG are not requirements for a 10 second car. My friends 8-9 second car yes, but a fuel injected car can run 10's with a blower and some head work. Same guy 2000 LS1 firebird, blower, heads, cam = 10.81 seconds. Drove it 6000 miles on the hiway. Pretty streetable if you ask me. I think that alot of the doubters have a problem with living in the past. Hell once upon a time fully sponsored race cars ran 10's. Time to come up to speed, 10's are very acievable in a street car.

And as far as cars better for fast ETs???
Most of my "muscle car" friends would kill for the kind of traction I get. I drive 200KM to the track getting 30MPG, rip off some mid 12 second ETs and drive home getting 30MPG. Alot of people running 12's in "muscle cars" have to trailer their car to the track.

Who says a quick car can't handle?? My car handles better than many cars on the road. It might not handle as well as some guys that have set their cars up for autocross only but it holds it own.

The fiero is an excellent choice for quarter mile performance. Lots of engine upgrades/swaps available, hella traction, and light weight. Sounds like the perfect drag car to me. The only problem is tranny's and I'd say a 4T60 swap with manual shifting will take care of that.

If you are into autocrossing, good for you, some of us aren't. Your BS comments of how Fiero's don't make good drag cars does only one thing. Keep people from building a excellent ET machine. Stick to what you know, because you don't know dick about drag racing.
ICY

There was an interesting editorial in, I think it was this month's Car Craft, about "what defines a Street Car?" Anybody else see it?

They didn't come up with any definites either, but these arguments (er, ah, discussions) kind of reminded me of that article.

Hartz

(Edited to fix basic typing mistakes...)

------------------
'84 SC 5.7L V8
'85 SE 3.1L V6 Turbo
Hartz's Toys

[This message has been edited by Hartz (edited 10-08-2002).]

quote Originally posted by LFiero67: Actually alot of 10 second cars are very streetable.

Amen!

quote Time to come up to speed, 10's are very acievable in a street car.

No $hit! I saw a damn snowmobile bust a 6 second quater.

quote And as far as cars better for fast ETs??? Most of my "muscle car" friends would kill for the kind of traction I get. I drive 200KM to the track getting 30MPG, rip off some mid 12 second ETs and drive home getting 30MPG.

Dunno about the 30mpg. I'm hoping for 20 but still I'll take it!

quote The fiero is an excellent choice for quarter mile performance. Lots of engine upgrades/swaps available, hella traction, and light weight. Sounds like the perfect drag car to me. The only problem is tranny's and I'd say a 4T60 swap with manual shifting will take care of that.

Couldn't have said that better.

quote If you are into autocrossing, good for you, some of us aren't. Your BS comments of how Fiero's don't make good drag cars does only one thing. Keep people from building a excellent ET machine.

Not stoping me. You can check my site in the sig for the details Dunno but am pretty confident that I'll give a few a run for their money

quote Stick to what you know, because you don't know dick about drag racing. ICY

No need to bash, in his defense he does run a 12 and change quarter.

But I agree with you! I think the Fiero is an AWSOME drag platform. And why can't you have a car that is streetable? I intend on driving my car daily and busting at least 12's but more like 11's AND getting around 20+ to the gallon. The tranny is the weakest link in the equation but I'm working on that as well.

So they say it can't be done. I think it can, do you?

Rob D.

------------------

No motor - Soon to be a bottle fed 383 V8
2.5" Drop
11" Brakes
17" Revolutions
RCC Coilover Suspension
New web site! www.dirtyratracing.org

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 10-08-2002).]

quote Originally posted by LFiero67: Your BS comments of how Fiero's don't make good drag cars does only one thing. Keep people from building a excellent ET machine. Stick to what you know, because you don't know dick about drag racing. ICY

Just might know quite a bit more than you think! Secondly, if anyone has the knowledge and dreams to attempt to create a 10 second Fiero, nothing said on this Forum is going to stop him or her from doing so.

As far as drag racing goes, been there, done that (started racing in 1967), and held a class record for three consecutive years before it was broke.

Maybe someone can come up with a real trick setup, but I don't think there's going to be much Fiero left in it. Just my opinion, it's going to take a whole lot of money, or it just isn't going to last very long.

You want to talk about friends fast cars....Here's my cousins GTO (not much GTO left in it), runs 8.8 @ 150mph on injected alcohol. Engine alone costs $20,000, prior to this new engine the car was running 9.97 with a $13,000 dollar engine. The under structure is all alum, steel body twice acid dipped with thin fiberglass fenders, and trunk lid. There's about $55,000 invested into that car and it's just good for one thing.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-08-2002).]

hey guys you know where there are any headers larger than 1.5" primary?

quote Originally posted by DKOV: Seriously, why don't I hear more posts like "How can I make my Fiero handle better?"... and they say the Fast and the Furious had ZERO impact on the "Street scene". DKOV -

Here you go
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/027932.html

Rob D.

I t doesnt cost much to make an lt1 be able to turn 10's in a fiero, you can do that with 550hp in an f-body so 500 would put you deep into them with out that much invested.

I say get a damn Supra!

I was not bashing California Kid, I know what his car runs, that is why I was surprised to see his post. That post was aimed at the people who immediately jump in with "The fiero is not a good drag car" or "build another car if you want to go fast" and especially to build a fiero that handles for autocrossing. That is your idea of fun, good for you. It is not mine and it is not for the people asking these questions. If you don't have information that is valuable to the person asking the question, and more importantly on subject, don't post anything. It's not that hard. I don't post about autocrossing, you guys don't post on how to make a fast fiero. California Kid's car is impressive and I think that it proves that a car can be built towards autocrossing and still achieve quick ET's.
ICY

quote Originally posted by LFiero67: California Kid: If he is only getting 8's out of that that is pretty sad. Guy I know has a full steel 67-69 Camaro, big block that runs high sevens. No blower just engine and Nitrous. Watched him destroy 9 second streetbikes without running the nitrous and letting off at the end. ICY

It's a "Classed" Bracket Racer that doesn't run full out, the car will run quicker, but not as consistantly. In it's current form and setting his last five runs were each 8.81 with the fifth run being an 8.80. It will do these runs repeatedly without breaking parts which keeps the operating expense minimized and more rewarding. The only thing that beats you with this car is yourself, by catching a bad light. Just added to chute (required at the 150mph mark), so he feels comfortable reducing the dial in time, engine puts out 900hp.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-09-2002).]

Looks like a cool car, is it street legal? I can't even imagine making a 8 second pass, nevermind a 6 or 4 second pass. The G forces would be unreal. The camaro I was talking about is licensed and insured for street use, although the drives are usually very short. Wouldn't call it a street car but it can legaly drive. Engine makes about 1200HP, nitrous on top of that. It is built for street racing, with up to $5000US on a race the car is a) consistant and b) reliable. I cannot believe how well it hooks on pavement. These guys spend big money on suspension. Watched several of their cars launch from 4000-5000 RPM on ashfault with no tire spin. Just a bit of VHT poured, a burn out and launch. Did I mention they run 10.5" wide slicks? It is pretty cool to watch.
ICY

quote Originally posted by Mach10: It all depends what you call "streetable." These guys running 10-second muscle usually have stupid rear-ends (4.11-5.66), locked spools (NASTY in turns) and zero gas mileage on race gas... You call that streetable? 5mpg, NO vacuum at idle, VERY touchy high-stall converter (or chattery clutch), ZERO-emissions compliance... These do not combine to form what I'd call a "streetable" experience. However, if you can live with these traits, then yeah, it's "streetable."

I could see where a carbureted V8 Fiero would fit your description, but with todays technology I wouldn't think a 10 second Fiero would be that difficult to build or make streetable. 10 second 5.0 Mustangs and 4th gen F-bodies are commonplace, and quite a few of them will still pass emissions. My 517rwhp Mustang would, and it got decent mileage (high teens). My 400rwhp 97 Camaro SS still got 24mpg, at 85mph with 4.11 gears in the 9" (very streetable with a 6 speed). I would think the driveline would be the main issue...making the power in an emissions friendly, driveable manner would be the easy part.

actually I dont even have to pass emissions, got around it

I have noticed that alot of people keep on saying that F-body's and Mustangs run 10's easily and are very streetable. I know my fair share of low 10-second cars that are street legal and insured, but none of them are Fiero's.

The point that I'm trying to make is that if the Fiero could be made into a 10-second streetable car with relative low cost (Same price as the F-bods and Mustangs) we would have people on this board who have already done it, just like there are people on their message boards who have already done it.

Like some of the other people who have posted, although the Mid-engine setup and engine availability are the positives about a Fiero in the 1/4, the transmission and cradle structure are pretty big negatives.

Since I've been on this forum, I have seen at least 3 transmission cases spewing out their insides. All of these were connected to 350-450hp V-8's. That kind of power will get you into the 11's, but it doesn't seem to have got anyone near the 10's.

The only relatively cheap transmission option that would probably handle the power needed would be a really beefed-up TH-125 with a high stall converter. And since the only 10-second Fiero that I know of that runs 10's is run with an auto, I would suggest that the auto is the way to go. I don't know if there is any sort of a posi unit for the transimission, but that would help too.

Of course there are a number of possible other transmission options like the porsche transaxle (Which as far as I know, no one has done) some VW 6-speed, and the Toronado transaxle. But, all of these will require the engine to be mounted longitudinally, so that will be quite a bit of added cost and added engineering. Held makes a custom cradle. But, the longitudinal setup also allows for just about any engine setup. You could even go big block!

Thelongitudinal setup will also alter the F/R weight ratio, which would effect street handling. A coilover setup with some stiffer springs would probably offset most of this.

Another problem that I see with a 10second Fiero is the cradle design itself. Much like broken transmission cases, I have also seen broken cradles. There is a guy in upstate New York who had a 750hp v-8 in his Fiero and ended up ripping the mounts clean off the cradle! The cradle isn't designed to handle that much torque.

Solutions to this problem would be to get a custom tubular steel cradle made, or you could find ways to reenforce the original cradle. Once again, this will probably be a costly mod, but to run consistant 10's without breaking anything and also being able to drive it on the street, I think it would be a necessary mod.

Now I will end with saying that it should be possible to build a streetable 10-second Fiero. But I feel that it would cost alot of money (Relative to getting an F-bod or a mustang into the 10's) and it would take alot of engineering to make it reliable pass after pass and also be able to drive you to and from the track.

I would say that building a mid-11-second Fiero could be done fairly easy, but after that, you really start to push many of the Fiero's components past their limits. But a mid-11 second run will beat 90% of the cars out there, and to me, that's fast enough. But if you want to go faster, they hey, give it a shot! Just make sure that you plan carefully.

------------------

quote Originally posted by LFiero67: I was not bashing California Kid, I know what his car runs, that is why I was surprised to see his post. That post was aimed at the people who immediately jump in with "The fiero is not a good drag car" or "build another car if you want to go fast" and especially to build a fiero that handles for autocrossing. That is your idea of fun, good for you. It is not mine and it is not for the people asking these questions. >>>>>> If you don't have information that is valuable to the person asking the question, and more importantly on subject, don't post anything. It's not that hard. <<<<<<<<<< I don't post about autocrossing, you guys don't post on how to make a fast fiero. California Kid's car is impressive and I think that it proves that a car can be built towards autocrossing and still achieve quick ET's. ICY

This is a general Fiero Forum..If you people who are dreaming about stupid goals want to get real, then do it first..and then post about your sucess. All you are saying here is "that with enough money" anything can be done...so shut up and do it and quit asking how it could be done to people who have already thought about the pro's and cons of what you are dreaming about..
For a streetable car, California Kid's Fiero is a sucess. All that you are suggesting is a race car that pretends to look like a streetable car. See if you can take anything that you are proposing on a 500 mile road trip without blowing it up..Race cars are just that.. and I personally am not appreciative of idiots who want to raise the bar just so that they can be "King of the **** Pile" (after dropping 25 Grand into a 1500 $ car).. No matter what you do, it will still be a "Fiero" ..there are better engineered cars out ther that will do what you are "talking about" without breaking down as much...
..So to repeat..just shut up and do it then come back and tell me about it...

Wow, that was a helpful post.
ICY

PS thanks for posting that this is a public forum, I guess we can post whatever we want about fieros. You don't have to read it.

[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 10-09-2002).]

"This is a general Fiero Forum..If you people who are dreaming about stupid goals want to get real, then do it first..and then post about your sucess."
-Ok dipshit, this IS a general forum where we can talk about what ever we want and dont need to consult you about it. And as for this being a "stupid goal", I dont have anywhere to autocross and I sure as hell dont need to carve corners for street driving, BUT you do run into people on the street that want to drag race. Seems to me that building a drag/street car would only be the logical thing to do. And as far as posting after we are done that is just ****ing stupid since WE ARE ASKING FOR HELP TO COMPLETE THE CAR!

"so shut up and do it and quit asking how it could be done to people who have already thought about the pro's and cons of what you are dreaming about"
-If they weighed the pros and cons and still dont like the idea of it I AM PROBABLY NOT POSTING THIS FOR THEM. My solution is dont respond unless its constructive critisism which I accept, not some flamer bashing bashing me for a valid idea I had.

"All that you are suggesting is a race car that pretends to look like a streetable car. See if you can take anything that you are proposing on a 500 mile road trip without blowing it up..Race cars are just that.. "
-I am suprised anyone could be so ignorant. As long as its intended to run on the street and it works like its suppose to you can drive it as far as you'd ****ing like with out "blowing up". Someones watched The fast and the furious a few too many times. And it will be a race car AND a street car, why the **** couldnt you have both?

"and I personally am not appreciative of idiots who want to raise the bar just so that they can be "King of the **** Pile"
-I would like to raise the bar to 10 seconds because I want a really ****ing fast car and I dont see why I am an idiot for it. To each his own and this is what I want so if its not what you want you dont have to appreciate it, ITS NOT YOUR GOD DAMN CAR.

"(after dropping 25 Grand into a 1500 $ car).. No matter what you do, it will still be a "Fiero" ..there are better engineered cars out ther that will do what you are "talking about" without breaking down as much...
-no there are DIFFERENT cars out there that will break down JUST AS OFTEN if the proper measures arent accounted for. As far as the "talking about" bullshit, of course you talk about **** before you build it.

"..So to repeat..just shut up and do it then come back and tell me about it...

"
-I wont shut up and I will do it.

And to repeat... I dont think I need to confirm it with you.

p.s.-LFiero67 this is annoying. I'll figure this out yet.