Well I finally got my 3.4l DOHC turbo car to the dyno today. After tuning with a wideband O2 sensor. I got 280 HP and 325 lb-ft at the wheels. With a 15% loss, that's ~330 HP and 382 lb-ft at the crank. Who said turbo cars don't make torque and are peaky? That torque peak is at 3600 RPM. Not until 5700 RPM does the engine torque drop below 300 lb-ft. Horsepower peak is at ~5800 RPM. I shut down at 6300 RPM and the engine was still making 300 HP. All this was with 9 psi of boost. Next time I head to the dyno (sometime before the 20th show), I will be packing more boost with the goal of 300+ HP at the wheels.
Matt
PS - Steve Hamm had his turbo car there as well. With the wick turned up to ~17 psi, he put down 340 HP at the wheels. That's 400 at the crank. He has a heavily massaged 2.8l engine with a T3/T4 hybrid.
OMG!!!!!!!!! man, please tell me you kept some info on how you installed the turbo on a DOHC!!! about how much did the setup cost you??? these are the usual questions i know but i have been REALLY wanting to do that type of setup. oh yeah and did you keep track of part numbers?? keep up the goooood work!!!
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11:26 PM
$Rich$ Member
Posts: 14575 From: Sioux Falls SD Registered: Dec 2002
Have a look at the dyno sheet. Excuse the noise at the top end. That is what really out of balance tires do to the dyno. This is without any filtering.
Matt
[This message has been edited by Matt Hawkins (edited 06-30-2003).]
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12:10 AM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
Very nice set of numbers there bud!!! Congrats! You have one of the nicest installs I've seen yet! Can't wait to see the #s with the turbo cranked up a bit!
Bob
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07:34 AM
PFF
System Bot
GT40Guy Member
Posts: 66 From: Mt Clemens, MI Registered: Apr 2003
I am in Mt Clemens. Want to swap cars for a couple of days?
Seriously, very impressive numbers. I would love to see more info on your car. Maybe this could be a next step for my DOHC. Can't imagine how fast the revs would build with my 4.10 4 speed!
Steven
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08:29 AM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
...PS - Steve Hamm had his turbo car there as well. With the wick turned up to ~17 psi, he put down 340 HP at the wheels. That's 400 at the crank. He has a heavily massaged 2.8l engine with a T3/T4 hybrid.
NOW this is a "how to" build that I want to see ..pictures ..tuning issues ..ect ..ect... Please???
Hypereutectic pistons ARP Bolts Ported and polished combustion chambers Custom Intake 38 lb/hr injectors T3 turbo with compressor housing machined for T04B 46 trim wheel Blow off valve from 1st gen Eclipse SVO Mustang intercooler with moved inlet ClutchNet six puck sprung hub disc Torsen diff in 282 Getrag/Muncie Haltech E6K programmable fuel injection Custom 304 stainless headers and crossover Flowmaster 40 series stainless muffler
2.8l Turbo:
Custom forged pistons H-beam SBC rods ARP bolts everywhere Custom block girdle O-ringed block Ported and polished heads with stainless valves 1.6 roller rockers Erson custom turbo grind cam Ported and matched intake Bored throttle body T3/T4 hybrid turbo with TO4E 50 trim wheel, ball bearing External wastegate 1st gen Eclipse blow off valve SVO Intercooler ClutchNet 6 puck sprung clutch Custom 321 Stainless headers and crossover DynoMax race muffler Accel DFI programmable fuel injection MSD 6-AL Ignition
Matt
[This message has been edited by Matt Hawkins (edited 06-30-2003).]
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12:36 PM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I will try to post some pics tonight at home. The firewall at work won't let me. The weights are listed below.
3.4l DOHC. This is a 1987 GT. It weighed 2870 on the scales. 1215 lbs on the front axle. The rear was 1655 lbs.
2.8l Turbo. This started life as an 84 auto. It now has 85 GT fascias. It weighed 2820. I can't remember the distribution, but it was close to the same ratio.
We will both have our cars at the 20th. See you then.
Matt
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03:33 PM
hoola47 Member
Posts: 526 From: London, Ontario, Canada Registered: Feb 2003
Any #'s? I mean it's been said that the 2.8 is not really a competitive engine, but with this list of mods etc. what do you suspect it will pull 1/4 mile range? 0-60 mph? I know #'s arn't everything and people will just shrug this statement off, but I feel reluctant to put thousands into a 2.8 if it will barely reach high 13's. Any idea on performance?
------------------ 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT Auto, soon to be 5 spd Getrag from 88 z24, 0-60 high 8's. Good: Love the car, and has potential. Bad: needs work. Bought for 2500$.
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03:37 PM
Matt Hawkins Member
Posts: 586 From: Waterford, MI Registered: Oct 2000
We will both be running at Milan for the 20th show. Both cars should be in the 12s. I have run mine at Milan before the dyno and got 13.3 @ 103. That was with a 2.0s 60 foot time. With a hard launch, that setup should have nudged the 12s. I have since picked up power via tuning and should be easily in the 12s next time. I won't speculate how far. Rather I will let the slips speak for themselves on the 18th!
Matt
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03:44 PM
kslish Member
Posts: 1476 From: Womelsdorf, PA Registered: Apr 2000
Holy cow....Steve is now my new 2.8L turbo idol. Is that thing calm enough to be everyday street drivable or is it just an all out power motor that isn't well behaved?
Ken S. '87 GT turbo
(anxiously awaiting for pics of both cars)
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03:52 PM
PFF
System Bot
87gt5speed Member
Posts: 193 From: Columbus,OH,USA Registered: Dec 2002
Out-damn-standing!!! I am happy to hear about that 2.8!!! I always was curious just what could be done.....sweeeet. Pushrods and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------ ---"Didn't those catch fire?"--- ---"Why didn't you get an MR2?"--- ---"The engine is WHERE?"--- ---Liking Fiero's is a lonely business---
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04:09 PM
HYPTNOTiSE Member
Posts: 504 From: frederick, md 21702 Registered: May 2000
Matt those are really good numbers especially for using such a small turbo.
I am very impressed and pat you on the back for getting some dyno numbers and running it at the track too. Good to see its not a trailor queen and that you like to drive it hard.
If you so choose to in the future I would upgrade to a t3/4 as well and use a larger compressor wheel. You can still run 9 psi but make more power as the larger wheel will flow more air at less boost and thus making more power. THat engine can make 400 hp with the right turbo with no buildup.
Yea Steve Hamm knows what to do. He has a monster for a 2.8. Its the larger turbo that just flows a ton of air on the top end allowing big numbers but still produce good low end torque off the line
Good numbers Matt. Keep up the good work with your fiero.
------------------ Mike LeCompte 86 Fiero GT 3.2L w/ Nitrous
SAVE THE SHAUN
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04:46 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
kslish - Steve's car is very driveable. He drove it from Cleveland to Detroit and back just to put it on the dyno.
HYPTNOTiSE - I am running a T4 wheel right now, just in a T3 housing (specially machined by Turbonetics). A true T3/T4 hybrid like Steve's would be a bit more efficient at higher boost levels, but I am in the meat of the efficiency map right now. The turbo is quoted by Turbonetics as being good for up to 375 HP.
Pyrthian - In a word, yes! Can you tell I love turbochargers yet?!?
Matt
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06:37 PM
Matt Hawkins Member
Posts: 586 From: Waterford, MI Registered: Oct 2000
wow, nice job Matt. I have asked about your turbo set-up in the past, and am glad to see it doing well. Having both these cars with such high hp makes me wonder if one is better than the other. I will be interested to see what the 2.8 does for 1/4 mile when you take them both to the track. I know the 3.4 TDC will do well.
------------------ Help, Someone has lit a Fiero in my a#@!
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10:00 PM
PFF
System Bot
GT Member
Posts: 911 From: Silver Spring, MD USA Registered: May 2003
Nice work! I'm at the beginning of this project that you're finishing up. I have a 91 TDC engine on the floor in my garage and I'm debating whether or not to build it for turbo. I will be totally happy with 300HP and I'm sure I can build it N/A to that power level. Hindsight being 20/20, do you have any insights that would sway my opinion one way or the other? I can get a turbo from a Grand National for $150.00 from a friend and build from there, OR I can go the traditional route and raise the compression, P&P the heads, adjust the exhaust valves, and have headers made. Do you have any advice (other than power levels) as to why turbocharging would be superior to the N/A route? ie: easier, cheaper, more reliable, etc... Thanks and nice work!
-Rick Stewart
[This message has been edited by GT (edited 06-30-2003).]
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10:35 PM
Matt Hawkins Member
Posts: 586 From: Waterford, MI Registered: Oct 2000
85frankenstein - I had to remove the carbon fiber top cover due to bulging under heat. The signature is from Jon Moss of GM. He signed it when I was on the HotRod Power Tour.
OutlawFiero - Thanks. Yes both these cars make good power. Currently Steve's car will be much faster with the power he is making. I hope to be up to ~325 HP at the wheels for the dragrace at the 20th event. I am leary of going any higher with the engine internals I have. The big thing I worry about are the main caps walking under load. When I have the engine out this winter, I plan on making a block girdle for my engine too.
GT - I obviously really like turbos. I wanted one on the 3.4l because I thought it would be cool. While you can probably get 300 HP N/A with mods. You aren't going to make much more torque. If anything, this is going to be the peaky engine. It will still be a fast car, just not what I was looking for. Any of the things you described are going to cost money. Going with the turbo isn't any more mechanically challenging, just electronically for fuel and spark control. That is why we use programmable fuel injection. Good luck with whatever you decide. I don't think I will ever build another car that doesn't have at least one turbo! I'm addicted and it is making my M3 feel slow.
Matt
[This message has been edited by Matt Hawkins (edited 06-30-2003).]
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10:42 PM
Jul 1st, 2003
Shadow_Wolf Member
Posts: 759 From: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada Registered: May 2003
Just a heads up that Matt has requested that I post some sound clips of his ride on the dyno as well as Steve's 2.8 firebreather. C'mon over to www.DOHCFiero.com and check 'em out. You can get to them both from a link on the front page, or by navigating through the photo gallery at the bottom of the page. Until this page get buried, I'll include a direct link here too! www.dohcfiero.com/dynodays.htm
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04:27 PM
DKOV Member
Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
Just a heads up that Matt has requested that I post some sound clips of his ride on the dyno as well as Steve's 2.8 firebreather. C'mon over to www.DOHCFiero.com and check 'em out. You can get to them both from a link on the front page, or by navigating through the photo gallery at the bottom of the page. Until this page get buried, I'll include a direct link here too! www.dohcfiero.com/dynodays.htm
I think I just filled the cup!!!! Man that motor winds up Can I get a ride at the 20th?
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05:53 PM
Matt Hawkins Member
Posts: 586 From: Waterford, MI Registered: Oct 2000
I didn't use a dogbone setup like the stock Fiero. I used the stock engine mount and modified trans mounts (stiffer custom rubber bushings). I then added two control links with heim joints on both sides of the engine mounted to the cradle. The front side mounts where the torque shock was. The back mount is a mirror image of that. This allows no movement front to back but allows the rubber mounts to control side to side movement. This keeps things from torqueing too much yet keeps the vibration isolated.
