I guess i'm a little late checking in on this subject, but I've been doing a brake conversion and haven't looked at the forum much in the last few weeks. I own both a 4.9 88 GT and a SBC V-8 Archie conversion in an 87 GT. I have said this before and I will say it once again: You cannot compare the two, they are completely different animals. However, here's my two cents and some reasons why: I would recommend you try one of each first. If you can only afford one, I would recommend you do the SBC first, because if you don't you'll eventually want one. But one of the most compelling reasons to go with the SBC conversion is Archie himself. Now I bought my V-8 Archie from someone else and ended up redoing it. Although the SBC had been in the car for 9 years and 25,000 miles I redid it not not because it needed it, but because I wanted to. Archie has never hesitated to help me with any question or problem I've had (reinstalling the engine)and believe me he knows what he is doing with a Fiero and the SBC, the brake conversion, etc. He has never steered me wrong, never tried to talk me into anything and never tried to sell me any thing. As a result when I need a clutch or any part for my SBC, I go to Archie - it's cheaper in the long run. Now on the other hand, I have found it EXTREMELY difficult to get service on my 4.9. And that is not necessarily the fault of anyone, it is just the way it is. It is similar to the 3800 conversion (had one of those, too) in that you almost have to carry a wiring diagram and a service manual supplement to get something fixed. So a key lesson to be learned is always be sure you fully understand the technical aspects of the conversion you choose, because at some time it will probably be you who has to tell a mechanic how to fix it. Now my 4.9 has been very reliable, it's very quick, it's quiet, I get 19-20 mpg in town and 22-23 on the highway using premium fuel (it still doesn't run on regular or mid grade - I probably need to swap out the computer but haven't had time). But I still prefer the raw G pulling power of my modified ZZ3 (pushing 400 hp) for pure unadulterated fun. AND I can take it to virtually any mechanic in the country for repairs when I'm on the road. So my opinion still remains the same: You cannot compare the two, they are like apples and oranges like a Ricer and a Corvette (both are fast, but what do you like). But in the final analysis, it is really great to have Archie there to answer any question or help you with any problem you might have with your SBC. And no, I don't really know Archie, I've met him at Daytona long enough to say Hello and I've talked to him on the phone and via this forum. So enjoy whatever you choose and choose what suits you and your needs.

------------------
Tom Corey
Melbourne, FL
87 Green T-Top GT 5Spd SBC ZZ3 V8
88 Yellow T-Top GT, 4.9L Caddy, 4T60E

Thanks Tom.

Archie

Tom, I hope you don't mind but i used your quote in another link. by far you have givin me a good amount of thinks to consider.

Thank You

------------------
Jamal1782
1986 2M4

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: I guess i'm a little late checking in on this subject, but I've been doing a brake conversion and haven't looked at the forum much in the last few weeks. I own both a 4.9 88 GT and a SBC V-8 Archie conversion in an 87 GT. I have said this before and I will say it once again: You cannot compare the two, they are completely different animals. However, here's my two cents and some reasons why: I would recommend you try one of each first. If you can only afford one, I would recommend you do the SBC first, because if you don't you'll eventually want one. But one of the most compelling reasons to go with the SBC conversion is Archie himself. Now I bought my V-8 Archie from someone else and ended up redoing it. Although the SBC had been in the car for 9 years and 25,000 miles I redid it not not because it needed it, but because I wanted to. Archie has never hesitated to help me with any question or problem I've had (reinstalling the engine)and believe me he knows what he is doing with a Fiero and the SBC, the brake conversion, etc. He has never steered me wrong, never tried to talk me into anything and never tried to sell me any thing. As a result when I need a clutch or any part for my SBC, I go to Archie - it's cheaper in the long run. Now on the other hand, I have found it EXTREMELY difficult to get service on my 4.9. And that is not necessarily the fault of anyone, it is just the way it is. It is similar to the 3800 conversion (had one of those, too) in that you almost have to carry a wiring diagram and a service manual supplement to get something fixed.

Tom, care to tell us what you were having such an EXTREMELY hard time getting serviced on your 4.9?

This is not good... Now you are making me think again to go with the SBC instead of the 4.9. I like the idea of putting something simple now and then hot rodding it as time & money comes

------------------
Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: This is not good... Now you are making me think again to go with the SBC instead of the 4.9. I like the idea of putting something simple now and then hot rodding it as time & money comes

As a owner of a 4.9 I'm EXTREMELY interesting in knowing what was so difficult to get service on the 4.9

BTW Alex, I don't think the 4.9 is right for you if you intend on hot rodding it in the future. That is a point most all 4.9 people have said over and over, so no mystery there.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 10-16-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: Tom, care to tell us what you were having such an EXTREMELY hard time getting serviced on your 4.9?

Be happy to. Nothing extremely serious, yet. I did the 4.9 for my daily driver and in the process I completely dismantled my yellow 88 T-Top GT for a panel off paint job and a complete new interior. This is my "brand new" car that I drive to work and use as my primary vehicle. So I basically built a "new" car for reliability. I did not want to take time to maintain my daily driver because I have other things I'd rather be doing like 6 grandkids and golf. About a week after I received the car, it started pinging - and it still pings unless I run premium fuel with an octane booster in every tank, which I do. I managed to borrow a scan tool and tried to adjust out the TPS and timing. It would not properly adjust. So I took it to a good mechanic who replaced the TPS and all other sensors as well, but did not clear the problem. So to make a long story short, I have spent over $700 on this problem, but it still exists. Ed Parks says it's the only one that has this problem. Since the engine is new out of the crate, I figure it needs a new computer. I don't have time to mess with it. That's what I call an "extreme" problem - not simple, requires special diagnostic tools, - a problem I am unable to readily diagnose and fix myself. Don't get me wrong, in spite of this little nitnoy, I am very pleased with the car and the performance of the 4.9. In the past year, I have driven to RFTH twice and to Michigan as well as to work every day without a problem other than the pinging. But like the 3800 conversions I've had, it is not as simple as taking the car to the local dealer for repairs. You need to know a lot about these conversions yourself. The simplicity of the SBC and the wide range of available power (and prices) along with proven reliability and a tremendous amount of off the shelf dress up and speed parts make the V-8 Archie swap my personal preference. Hopefully that answers your question and doesn't pi$$ off any of my fellow 4.9 owners. Sorry, I didn't mean to start a new link here, I guess I pushed the wrong button on my initial response to the other thread.

------------------
Tom Corey
Melbourne, FL
87 Green T-Top GT 5Spd SBC ZZ3 V8
88 Yellow T-Top GT, 4.9L Caddy, 4T60E

[This message has been edited by Tom Corey (edited 10-16-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: I get 19-20 mpg in town and 22-23 on the highway using premium fuel (it still doesn't run on regular or mid grade - I probably need to swap out the computer but haven't had time).

Hi Tom,

My wife's car is a big FWD '94 Deville with the 4.9. The owners manual (and some printing on the gas gage) says to use Premium only. This is a low mileage well maintained car. I've tried using Regular and Mid-grade gas in it several times. I'm here to tell you that it runs like crap on anything except High Test.

I HATE having to put premium in that boat when I run Regular in all my other cars (including the LT1).

So I don't think your problem is in the ECM.

Archie

Tom, from the way you initally described it it sounded like your problem was 4.9 swap related. When it just sounds like you got a lemon for a motor and the problem you have is not inherent with the 4.9 engine. This problem would have persisted even if you had put it in a Caddy. I saw another post here where someone using a 3.4 crate motor also got a lemon.

Therefore, I must conclude your problen as a isolated incident not commonly found in 4.9 powerplants.

So I believe absent your unusal problems I think it fair to say the 4.9 is no more difficult to have serviced than a SBC.

Thanks for sharing.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 10-16-2003).]

Well... I think if you do an engine swap using a totally different engine than what was in the car you shouldn't expect to take it to any mechanic and have them receive it like it was a Camry. Even stock many mechanics grin at the sight of a Fiero (pure stupidity but they do). On the other hand you have over 50 years of mechanics working on SBC. You may find some that will only look at the engine and not the car. I think if anyone goes the engine swap way it is better to do it yorself and learn it so you can maintain it. Otherwise you are at the mercy of your supplier. Just my opinion

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: I think if anyone goes the engine swap way it is better to do it yorself and learn it so you can maintain it. Otherwise you are at the mercy of your supplier. Just my opinion

I totally agreed with you, by the way you got PM.

------------------
" My intention is to " give a different point of view ", not to offend in any way; peace."
Link to car pictures of PFF members: http://fieroz.com/photo.html If you would like to include your car pic,send it to this email address: webmaster@fieroz.com

My 4.9s will usually run on 87 without any problem. Sometimes they will ping a little bit depending on where I get fuel or what addative they are putting in at that time. GM says they require 91 or higher. I've never run anything higher than 89 except in my high compression 4.9, and even then I was able to run the spark advance way up past stock before it would ping or knock.

Tom, I wish I could get my hands on your car for a few hours. I'm sure I could have you grinning when you got it back. Your fuel mileage also indicates that there is a problem, assuming you have the Cadillac auto trans.

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Otherwise you are at the mercy of your supplier. Just my opinion

Right on, Alex!

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Tom, I wish I could get my hands on your car for a few hours. I'm sure I could have you grinning when you

I would really recommend you take him up on that offer. Your car could be what you want it to be, and alot more than you would expect, without the guess work. I would mail that car up to him.

Pete

------------------

He may need to run premium to prevent pinging due to the higher ambient air temp in Florida. The same engine might run fine on lower octane in a cooler clime like PA or Ont. Just a thought.

quote The same engine might run fine on lower octane in a cooler clime like PA or Ont. Just a thought.

Climate is not an issue here. Tom's problems are much more severe than the effects of a warm climate. There are plenty of 4.9s running aroung FL on 87, I assure you.

I was pretty impressed with that high compression V8 that Rockcrawl mentioned. I don't recall any pinging, I was grinning way too much to notice if it were present!

------------------
Huh?

My 120k 4.9 doesnt ping, smoke or idle hunt. Its a 91 out of a Sedan Deville. I have Rockcrawls chip but as of today I still dont have the new chip he was burning for the 3.33 gears I added. I run the car HARD on 89 octane and it has never once pinged. But I do have a complete MSD ignition, NGK plugs and his chip. Dont know what all Jon does but I dont think it would be as good if I used the stock EPROM.

Steven

------------------
'02 Subaru WRX 14.61@91.87mph bone stock
'87 Fiero GT 4.9/4T60e w/3.33 final drive, ZEX nitrous 65hp shot, 88 cradle w/ 325# coil overs, Poly everything, Upgraded sway bars, KYB's, 16X7 M11's, 11.25 "Zettner" front brakes, Complete MSD ignition w/ 6AL box, Custom 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust, Grand Sport Corvette paint, Carbon fiber interior trim, '98 T/A CD w/ ETR, Reverse Indiglo guages, Pillar mounted AutoMeter O2, Hella H4 conversion.
Follow its built up here:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/027460.html

Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.