Several people have asked Archie and me to post photos of the progression of the fuel-injected ZZ430 engine build online. This is a replica of the 430 limited-edition 1999 ZZ430 (430hp/430fp) engines. It has as its basis the 12496769 Fast Burn 385 (385hp/385fp) aluminum head, four-bolt crate engine, and then adds the GMPP HOT cam kit (cam, springs, and 1.6 rocker arms) to make a ZZ430.

What makes this swap (and this engine) interesting is that it was never offered with an intake manifold for use with a fuel injection system by GM SPO. If you wanted this 1990's tech ZZ430 you had to use a 1970's tech carburetor. However, Street & Performance of Mena, AR has recently fabricated their own intake manifold and calibrated a complete fuel injection system to work with this engine and bring it into the 21st century. When run on a dyno, it put 436hp to the flywheel.

The first pictures of this swap were posted in the "Streetable V8 Clutch" thread which Chester started. If schedules hold, this will be the first attempt to use the new SPEC Stage III clutch on an Archie V8 swap.

The car in which this engine is being installed is an 88 GT which originally had the TH125 automatic. It has been replaced with the Getrag 282 5-speed, which weighs about eighty pounds less than the automatic, but the engine will weigh about eighty pounds more. The car already has the automatic car's springs, so its handling should be unaffected.

These are early test-fit images taken today. They are also some of the only pictures you'll ever see of Archie himself in action, since he's always the one running the camera.

Measuring the right-side mount for fitment

Note the ever-present Pepsi can, cause we think young around here.

Upon completion, this car will be weighed directly against my silver 88 GT 5-speed, hopefully settling forever the weight question of a small-block Chevy engine conversion.

More to come soon.

Dave

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- Silver '88 GT 5-speed (1 of 139) w/cammed 3.4
- Black '88 GT 5-speed ZZ430TPI at Archie's in Chicago
- '87 & '98 Corvette Coupes, moved to Chicago

[This message has been edited by crazyd (edited 07-25-2002).]

Man!! Wow!! That's going to be special.

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Roy :D
Just another stock Blue 87 GT
Suncoast Fieros

YELLOW 1988 GT w/ T-Tops, 5-Speed, and Performance Sound.GONE!

One of the coolest things about pics from Archie's shop is seeing what's in the background. I spy an F40 that appears to have recently been painted... and a couple of guys working on a ChopTop GT (which I recall seeing in a GC thread awhile back). And of course that sweet ZZ430 crate motor... just waiting to melt the rubber right of the wheels

Keep 'em coming!

As promised, even more pictures of the progress.

Preliminary mounting on the cradle for test-fitting:

The highly-trained eyes of those few amongst us who have installed their own LT1's will note something unusual about this engine's location on the cradle. The rest will have to guess.

Dave

[This message has been edited by crazyd (edited 07-29-2002).]

quote Originally posted by crazyd: The highly-trained eyes of those few amongst us who have installed their own LT1's will note something unusual about this engine's location on the cradle. The rest will have to guess. Dave

Hehe...I know I know! But I won't spill the secret

Absolutely amazing. Archie using calipers. What happened Archie, did you run out of paint sticks? 8-)

When I saw this engine in the GM catalog, I thought "this is a sweet little motor for a street rod or conversion". I thought seriously about a v8 swap with it in ours. I finally decided against it because ours is going to college with the kid and no matter how good a swap it, it takes tinkering from time to time. That's hard for a college kid to do when he's living in the dorms. So we went with the 3.4L instead. After 3500 miles on our 3.4 we have had to do absolutely NOTHING to it. Now water, oil, fuel leaks, no adjusting or tweaking, nothing. It's been too scary for things to go that right.

Not that we haven't been tweaking, it's just that it's been tweaking fiberglass panels instead of mechanicals the last two days.

Maybe in the next project, I do have to have one every year or so anyway. 8-)

John Stricker

Well I don't have an '88 or an LT1 or a getrag but I still noticed that balancer and the position of the front mount. Hmmmm.....
Am I warm?

tstroud

quote Originally posted by crazyd: Upon completion, this car will be weighed directly against my silver 88 GT 5-speed, hopefully settling forever the weight question of a small-block Chevy engine conversion. Dave

Why not just weigh that beautiful engine before you drop it in the cradle, and the 2.8 in the same configuration. You know, compare apples to apples? Just a straight up comparison of the engine weights would an end to the "debate".

G

quote Originally posted by cadero2dmax: Why not just weigh that beautiful engine before you drop it in the cradle, and the 2.8 in the same configuration. You know, compare apples to apples? Just a straight up comparison of the engine weights would an end to the "debate". G

I didn't know we had a "debate" currently going on.

It would be nice, if I had a scale that could handle that much weight but, there really isn't much of a need for one in a shop like mine.

Besides, in this case, the original 2.8 from this car was scrapped several months ago. It wouldn't have been a fair weight comparison anyway. You see the 2.8 had a great big hole in the side of the block & pan, many of the parts from INSIDE the engine had been spit out on the highway. So, you could say the original engine went on a diet before it was removed.

So George, once again it looks like you may be having a "debate" all alone.

Besides, do you think that + or - 50 or even 100 pounds is going to make a real big difference in how fast this thing goes by you on the highway?

Archie

Good point. The only way to tell for sure is to weigh the car before and after the swap. Same car. It would be funny if the weight saved from the tranny swap was the same as the weight gained with the engine. A SBC swap with a ZERO weight gain should shut a lot of people up. Of course, the weight's in difference places, so it might affect balance, but not much, I'd wager.

quote Originally posted by crazyd:

Kinda looks like an oil pan sitting on the of the engine

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--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: GTFiero

That car is just going to be silly fast. Silly because I'd have a grin on my face the whole time behind the wheel.

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AIM: FieroMGDriver My Fiero Page

quote Originally posted by crazyd: The highly-trained eyes of those few amongst us who have installed their own LT1's will note something unusual about this engine's location on the cradle. The rest will have to guess. Dave

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CrazyD,
Looks like you're using the thicker (1 1/2") adapter plate from the automatic 125c with your new 5 speed Getrag. What gives? Probably special clutch design for the high torque? Could it be two Zumalt adapter plates welded together(joke)?
http://hometown.aol.com/m34chev/zoomies.html

quote Originally posted by Archie: Besides, do you think that + or - 50 or even 100 pounds is going to make a real big difference in how fast this thing goes by you on the highway? Archie

Shucks, that engine just LOOKS faster than I would ever be able to pedal mine down the highway.

With me topped out in 5th, CrazyDave would have to at least to shift to second to get by me, though - - By Gawd!!

G

I'm so thrilled someone is finally putting this engine in a Fiero! As soon as I first saw the Fast Burn 385 I knew that would rock in a Fiero. When I read about the Hot Cam kit, of course, you'd have to have that too. And since I have emissions in my area, if I did it, I'd have to put fuel injection on it.

Hey, you're building my car!!! Thanks. When can I pick it up?

I'm am crazy interested in how she runs when you're done. I'd also like to see what kind of emissions it puts out. Are you going to run cats? Do you even need to worry about emissions in your area?

Oh, and I can't figure out what's special in that pic. What gives?

Did you shift the engine to the Driver's side to fit the Harmonic balancer? If so, why?

Something smells stupid fast to me. If thats possible.

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Two 88FORMULAS Red & Yellow
SSFiero@Aol.com

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I'm am crazy interested in how she runs when you're done. I'd also like to see what kind of emissions it puts out. Are you going to run cats? Do you even need to worry about emissions in your area?

Yeah, for now I do, but my job may take me where I don't. Equally likely is it will put me where I do. Either way, yes, I'm running cats and mufflers just like those on the Stinger. I've long since outgrown noisy cars, and I would just as well keep this a sleeper. There's plenty of power in this engine, I don't mind giving up 10 or 15 ponies to spare myself the headaches of a loud exhaust.

Dave

quote Originally posted by Archie: Besides, do you think that + or - 50 or even 100 pounds is going to make a real big difference in how fast this thing goes by you on the highway?

Probably not. And Im not referring to the weight

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3 weeks until project XXX begins. 75% of my supersecret mod parts have been purchased. :D

http://www.fieroX.com

f#@k the naysayers, cause they dont mean a thing...
311

ttt. Are you going to tell us why your moving the engine over?

Is the 282 physically bigger than a std Getrag? Does it use larger axles?? Are you using stock axles?

JM

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Jonathan McCreery

I We Todd Did , I Sofa king We Todd Did.

Sweet, of course...but I wouldnt expect anything less from Archie and "the whole gang".
I can say, however, that in those last pics of the engine in the car, it looks like a MIGHTY tight fit...and the exhaust manifold arent even on there....is that going to be a problem?

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The force will be with you, always.

Congratts looks nice . My guess is that it is moved over so the throttle body clears the passenger side rail of the deck lid... Although I still bet there will be some sort of scoop. once again looks nice

quote Originally posted by Slammed Fiero: Is the 282 physically bigger than a std Getrag? Does it use larger axles?? Are you using stock axles? JM

The 282 IS the standard Getrag.

Fiero Getrag 5-speed - M282
3.4DOHC Getrag 5-speed - M284 (much heavier duty, nearly impossible to find, no rebuild parts readily available, completely different slave setup)

quote Originally posted by KissMySSFiero: ttt. Are you going to tell us why your moving the engine over?

This engine is going into a 88 GT. Originally this GT was being fitted for the LS1 but the plans changed a little bit. The LS1 is now going to go into one of my personal cars, but that's another story.

As you may know the LT1, LT4 and the LS1 require some frame modificatons and moving the engine/trans. some 2-3/8" to the left in the car. This car already had those modifications before the project switched from the LS1 to this engine. Normally this engine would have been installed in the "normal" location but since we already had the modifications made to the chassis, & since I have a buttload of the custom length axles in stock, we decided to play around a little and move the Engine/trans. over the 2+" and take advantage of the extra space on the front of the engine.

As I've said over & over again, "I like playing around a bit with certain project cars" you never know whan you might learn something.

THIS IS NOT a prototype of something new we are experimenting with and if changes to the chassis hadn't already been made this (moving a "normal" engine over to the left) would have never been considered with this engine. I love Fieros and I love V-8 Fieros but even with doing 15 to 20 V-8 cars a year I get bored once in a while. In this case, the opportunity to experiment on this car presented itself to me and, with Dave's approval, we decided to take this route.

Ok, to answer some of the other questions I've seen......

My7Fieros..... This engine isn't any wider than and other SBC engine, the exhaust headers etc. will have plenty of room.

The top of the injection unit appears to be a lot taller than a TPI system, but my measurements indicate that it is only about 1/2" taller. Effects of that extra 1/2" have yet to be seen.

With Fuel Injection and Cats, this car should easily pass the smog tests required here in the Chicago area.

I hope you guys have DSL or something, we will be doing a lot to this car over the next 3 days & we will be posting up a lot of pics and text.

Archie

Thanks for the clarification Archie!! I'd be very interested in seeing pictures of the accessory drive belt setup packaged in and out of the compartment when you get to that stage.

Engine position is very similar to my setup.

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Click to Listen!

Is it just me or is the oil pan backwards? For some reason I remember SBC oil pans having the sump on the front, not the back.

BTW, nice lookin' engine you got there. I'm eagerly awaiting more pics.

I'll also throw in here that this car is being painted a very special color, and several pictures couldn't be posted yet because they would give it away. No chameleon shades, flames or multicolor silliness, just one beautiful color.

Dave

Cool pics! Thanks for the info, Archie. I'd be interested to see how everything fits once you get it installed. Maybe moving the engine over on a regular SBC will make maintenance easier? Any other possible advantages? We'll see. It keeps the option of an LT1/LS1, etc open in the future, too.

Well did it fit on the first try??? I know Archie will,and can make it fit. Just wanted to say Good Luck, can't wait to see the final product. Gary

quote Yep, it's just you.

Heh-heh, I've been spending too much time around Iron Dukes. I think it's making me slow.

It's almost going to be a shame to bury this beauty in the engine compartment.

Looks killer dave!

If you're painting it 50th Aniversary Corvette Red/Metaillic, I'm going to have to kill you )

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Are you going to use the water pump mounted like that?
How are you going to run the hose to the water pump?

tstroud

Damn that is sweet. I know this is a usless post, but that is very very nice looking.

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David hotrodfiero@shaw.ca
85GT 2.9 4spd

quote Originally posted by crazyd: It's almost going to be a shame to bury this beauty in the engine compartment.

I think i got a hard on when i saw that picture .

Why was the LS1 swap into this car discontinued? An exactly how many personal Cars do you have Archie?

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--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: GTFiero

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: I think i got a hard on when i saw that picture .

*zips up* oh me too....

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Open Manifold Pushrod 3.4, Lunati Camshaft, 19# Injectors, ZR-1 Cowl Induction Hood,
Fastback Scoops, Mild Weight-Reduction, APR DTM Euro Adjustable Spoiler

quote Originally posted by artherd: If you're painting it 50th Aniversary Corvette Red/Metaillic, I'm going to have to kill you )

Very good guess Ben, but no, not Anniversary Red. I was a September baby.

I'll let Archie answer about the water pump.

Dave

quote Originally posted by crazyd: [b]Very good guess Ben, but no, not Anniversary Red. I was a September baby. I'll let Archie answer about the water pump. Dave[/B]

RUBY??????