|
|
|
6 Speed sequential by FXRseen
Started on | : 05-08-2003 02:16 AM |
Replies | : 242 |
Last post by | : fieroturbo on 04-03-2004 08:31 AM |
|
|
|
May 8th, 2003
|
FXRseen Member Posts: 182 From: Vancouver WA Registered: Feb 2002
|
|
PFF
System Bot
|
|
|
FXRseen Member Posts: 182 From: Vancouver WA Registered: Feb 2002
|
Would this work if you did have the money. The FWD one looks sort of like the Getrag huh? Has anyone else ever done something like this?
IP: Logged
|
02:17 AM
|
|
iluvmacs Member Posts: 324 From: Monroeville, PA Registered: Feb 2002
|
What kind of cost are we talking here? This would be perfect for my SCCA project, unless the transmission costs more than the car. Any idea where to pick up used sequential transmissions?
IP: Logged
|
11:41 AM
|
|
Forbidden Doughnut Member Posts: 54 From: Meriden, Ct Registered: Apr 2003
|
Quaife also manufactures a six speed sequential. If memory serves, it costs about 20K. -FD
IP: Logged
|
01:06 PM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
DMS is working on a 5 and 6 speed manual (nothing sequential) as a direct replacement for the stock tranny. It will bolt up to any 2.5, .8, 3.1, 3.4, 3.4 DOHC, etc. Good for use in Fieros, Grand Prix, Lumina, Monte Carlo, etc. We're looking at a price point consistant with a Getrag 282. The best news is that there will be a 450+ HP version More to follow... Still in the casting phase but the tranny itself is worked out. DKOV - DKOV Motorsports (DMS)
IP: Logged
|
01:36 PM
|
|
Xantavar Member Posts: 1158 From: Big Rapids, MI...Ferris State Registered: Nov 2002
|
DKOV: You are the answer to a lot of fiero owner's wishes!! Awesome!! Keep us updated. I would like a nice 6-speed. Will they be hydrolic or cable? ------------------ #7277 of 46581 built in 1987. My thoughts are on you Sean and Chris! Come back safe!
IP: Logged
|
02:51 PM
|
|
Mr. Pat Member Posts: 1860 From: Melbourne, VIC Australia Registered: Apr 2003
|
How about an Auto that can hold those kinds of numbers? Im lazy, and want an Automatic.
IP: Logged
|
03:08 PM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
| quote | Originally posted by Xantavar: DKOV: You are the answer to a lot of fiero owner's wishes!! Awesome!! Keep us updated. I would like a nice 6-speed. Will they be hydrolic or cable? |
|
Not neccesarily the "dreams" that qued us in but the sheer cost of 282s and 284s anymore. Add to that the massive demand from the w-body crowd... The transmission will be hydraulic. Linkage will be cable. ETA? I'm nor sure at this point. As you can imagine, designing a tranny like this from scratch can me expensive and time consuming. I'll promise to keep you updated. DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
05:14 PM
|
|
DRH Member Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
|
| quote | Originally posted by DKOV: Not neccesarily the "dreams" that qued us in but the sheer cost of 282s and 284s anymore. Add to that the massive demand from the w-body crowd... The transmission will be hydraulic. Linkage will be cable. ETA? I'm nor sure at this point. As you can imagine, designing a tranny like this from scratch can me expensive and time consuming. I'll promise to keep you updated. DKOV - |
|
Why not make it with a seperate bellhousing? Then you could have a V6 version and a SBC version (with a bellhousing that would hold a "real" clutch)! The axle clearing the bellhousing might still be a problem though...
IP: Logged
|
05:53 PM
|
|
Fierobsessed Member Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
|
I don't know if you noticed, but the new grand prix has a steering wheel/paddle shift automatic... and its bolted to a 3800 series 3(?) supercharged... hmmmm ------------------ "How do I get one of those Smileys that rolls back and forth accross the screen?" -Archie
IP: Logged
|
07:59 PM
|
|
Patrick's Dad Member Posts: 5154 From: Weymouth MA USA Registered: Feb 2000
|
How do I get one of them really big smileys? | quote | Originally posted by DKOV: The best news is that there will be a 450+ HP version |
|
Just how big might that "+" be?
IP: Logged
|
08:54 PM
|
|
PFF
System Bot
|
|
red85gt Member Posts: 1506 From: Fernie,BC,Canada Registered: Sep 2002
|
Why not use a volkwagen auto trans. drove on the outher day and it is a 6 speed.
IP: Logged
|
08:55 PM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
| quote | Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: Just how big might that "+" be? |
|
There is talk about a tranny capable of 650HP but I'm concerned about the size of it. It's a long shot at best to ever fit it in the Fiero. However, the other option is a 495 rated tranny that will probably hold at least 550. It really depnds on cost. We are trying to devise a medium ground solution that will act as our "bulk" order item to get our pricing established with a few custom high torque/HP trannies along the way. The really cool thing is that, so far, they seem to be around 50 lbs LIGHTER than a Getrag. So there's another "+" DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
11:33 PM
|
|
Capt Fiero Member Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
|
Oh 6spd. I wish. Someday. ------------------ David hotrodfiero@shaw.ca 85GT 2.9 4spd www.david.westcoastfieros.com
IP: Logged
|
11:42 PM
|
|
May 9th, 2003
|
Forbidden Doughnut Member Posts: 54 From: Meriden, Ct Registered: Apr 2003
|
I am trying very hard to contain my excitement, so I'm just going to ask what sort of a time frame we would be looking at here? -FD
IP: Logged
|
12:28 AM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
If all continues and luck is with us... by fall-ish. Maybe sooner but I'm trying not to be optomisitc. DKOV - DMS [This message has been edited by DKOV (edited 05-09-2003).]
IP: Logged
|
12:37 AM
|
|
Will Member Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
|
| quote | Originally posted by DKOV: There is talk about a tranny capable of 650HP but I'm concerned about the size of it. It's a long shot at best to ever fit it in the Fiero. However, the other option is a 495 rated tranny that will probably hold at least 550. The really cool thing is that, so far, they seem to be around 50 lbs LIGHTER than a Getrag. So there's another "+"
|
|
Now waitaminnit... The Getrag already weighs less than 100 lbs. You're saying that your transmission will only weigh 50 lbs but be able to take a huge amount of torque? Hmmm... I don't really know how the W-body chassis is layed out, but adding an extra gear, with extra width on all the gears to take the torque you're talking about is going to make the transmission much longer. Packaging is always a concern. That's why Ford/Getrag used a dual layshaft design in the SVT Focus transmission. If you can pull it off, great. I second the interchangeable bellhousing idea.
IP: Logged
|
07:58 AM
|
|
Forbidden Doughnut Member Posts: 54 From: Meriden, Ct Registered: Apr 2003
|
One more question...Is there going to be a limited slip available? -FD
IP: Logged
|
11:38 AM
|
|
FXRseen Member Posts: 182 From: Vancouver WA Registered: Feb 2002
|
Wow there is some interesting comments rolling in. I guess the reason I started this thread is because xtrac is used in almost all the rally cars lately. So I'm sure they would have something that would work. On the site check out "Markets and Products" then "Gearboxes" then a list of gearboxes will show up look at the one that says "Transverse FWD Touring / Rally Car Gearbox". This one looks just like the Getrag, well almost. DKOV I notice that you live in Portland OR. I live in Vancouver WA. So your're saying your're (or company) developing a transmission for the Fieros and like cars? I would be interested in seeing some of your work if possible? What kind of Fieros do you have?
IP: Logged
|
12:01 PM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
| quote | Originally posted by Will: Now waitaminnit... The Getrag already weighs less than 100 lbs. You're saying that your transmission will only weigh 50 lbs but be able to take a huge amount of torque? Hmmm... I don't really know how the W-body chassis is layed out, but adding an extra gear, with extra width on all the gears to take the torque you're talking about is going to make the transmission much longer. Packaging is always a concern. That's why Ford/Getrag used a dual layshaft design in the SVT Focus transmission. If you can pull it off, great. I second the interchangeable bellhousing idea. |
|
I should have been more clear... lighter than the Getrag 284 which weighs in at a whopping 141 lbs. Also, I meant comparing 5-speed to 5-speed... not the 6 speed.
Sorry about that. Funny you should mention the dual layshaft design DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
12:10 PM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
| quote | Originally posted by Forbidden Doughnut: One more question...Is there going to be a limited slip available? -FD |
|
No talk on that at all.
DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
12:11 PM
|
|
PFF
System Bot
|
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
| quote | Originally posted by FXRseen: Wow there is some interesting comments rolling in. I guess the reason I started this thread is because xtrac is used in almost all the rally cars lately. So I'm sure they would have something that would work. On the site check out "Markets and Products" then "Gearboxes" then a list of gearboxes will show up look at the one that says "Transverse FWD Touring / Rally Car Gearbox". This one looks just like the Getrag, well almost. DKOV I notice that you live in Portland OR. I live in Vancouver WA. So your're saying your're (or company) developing a transmission for the Fieros and like cars? I would be interested in seeing some of your work if possible? What kind of Fieros do you have? |
|
I actually live in Vancouver as well... when I signed up on Pennocks, I lived in Portland but like many... made the move to greener lots, cheaper taxes and slower pace
I'm in the Fisher's landing area. You? DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
12:13 PM
|
|
FXRseen Member Posts: 182 From: Vancouver WA Registered: Feb 2002
|
I live by the Mall. I just bought a house by Padden Parkway and 205. Yeah Fishers Landing is not far. What Fieros do you have? I have a 97GT that is not running well and I can't figure out what is wrong with it. So I'm just going to swap out the engine.
IP: Logged
|
12:20 PM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
Wow... you have that rare and unique 97 GT? I have no idea how to work on a 97 Fiero. I've never seen one before. If you mean 87, then I might be able to help. LOL!!! I have an 88 GT with a 3.4L TDC Turbocharged motor, 284 getrag tranny, tubular racing suspension, 13 inch brakes and, oh... and a ferrari 355 body on it I also have an 88 2.5L that I recently converted to a 2.8 V6. Technically, I still have an Silver 85 GT that I have "sold" to a friend that hasn't paid me for in about 2 years I just sold my Lotus Esprit Turbo, so you missed that "fiero alternative". I have a Supercharged Durango 5.9 R/T with everything else. Depending on when you visit, you may see an F355 Spider here (replica), an F40 (also replica), a 348ts (real), a 328 (real) or a Venom Viper GTS (real) or some other "project". It's all a matter of timing. Email me or give me a call at 360-721-1316. Leave a message if you don't get me. DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
01:17 PM
|
|
FXRseen Member Posts: 182 From: Vancouver WA Registered: Feb 2002
|
uh yeah that's what I meant 87GT duh I would love to see some of your cars. You have a phone call.
IP: Logged
|
01:21 PM
|
|
Patrick's Dad Member Posts: 5154 From: Weymouth MA USA Registered: Feb 2000
|
| quote | Originally posted by DKOV: There is talk about a tranny capable of 650HP but I'm concerned about the size of it. It's a long shot at best to ever fit it in the Fiero. However, the other option is a 495 rated tranny that will probably hold at least 550.
|
|
I think that you'll need a test mule... you know, make sure it can take the rigors of a New England winter... yeah, and , well, what I'm planning, engine wise.... Does DMS have a website or other place (other than searching PFF) to keep up on the status of this particular project (and/or others)?
IP: Logged
|
10:19 PM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
|
May 10th, 2003
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
| quote | Originally posted by FXRseen: uh yeah that's what I meant 87GT duh I would love to see some of your cars. You have a phone call. |
|
Thanks for stopping by today. It was a bit crazy with my two boys running around and getting into everything. I hope I wasn't to distracted and gave you a good tour and information. I look forward to working on your car on Wednesday. Best, DKOV - DMS
IP: Logged
|
02:03 AM
|
|
May 11th, 2003
|
iluvmacs Member Posts: 324 From: Monroeville, PA Registered: Feb 2002
|
What year was your Lotus? If you have 2 kids and can afford a Lotus maybe someday I could... I love the esprit turbo, and it's one of the reasons I like the mid engine cars so much. If anyone is doing work on transmissions, they need to make the throwout bearing reliable and easy to move. This would make using the clutch a much more enjoyable experience.
IP: Logged
|
11:21 PM
|
|
May 12th, 2003
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
It was a 1991 X180R enhanced Esprit Turbo. Pretty sweet car... I loved it. I bought it for the explicit purpose of restoring it and selling it, which I ultimately did... a YEAR after I planned to It was hard parting with it. I actually have THREE kids, my two boys were here when FXR stopped by. They are 3 and 2 yrs old. My 3 month old daughter was with Mom at that time... lucky for me Honestly, for a car that looks like a Million Dollars but costs half of what a Ferrari does... You can't beat the value. It performed like nothing else and got more looks than any other exotic. In all the years I've lived in this area, I've seen 2 other Esprits except my own. One at a Lotus Club meet that came down from Seattle and the other that was in pieces that I was helping to restore. To make my car even more unique, Emmerson Fittipaldi autographed the dash during the CART race last year! What a priviledge! I have seen more F40s, F50s, F355s, Countachs, Diablos... you name it. Nothing is more rare and more exotic than an Esprit in my opinion. Especially an X180R. Except maybe a Sport 350 Esprit, of which there are only 8 and I'm helping to rebuild one of them. Here's a pic for ya... DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
03:48 AM
|
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
Can't help it... one more pic. My favorite pic DKOV -
IP: Logged
|
03:49 AM
|
|
PFF
System Bot
|
|
May 14th, 2003
|
FXRseen Member Posts: 182 From: Vancouver WA Registered: Feb 2002
|
Sweet car. I had fun checking out your project at your house. Hope to help out with some things soon. I'll check with you to see when we can work on our Fieros. Thanks
IP: Logged
|
07:52 PM
|
|
Razor_Wing Member Posts: 1753 From: Blowing Rock, NC, USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
I'm going to change out the Auto tranny in the car I'm getting when I change out the engine for a 3.4 DOHC or 3.5 DOHC (dunno which...) for a manuel, I was looking at just a getrag 282, but if this 6 speed comes out, that'd be great!! How much?
IP: Logged
|
09:46 PM
|
|
May 15th, 2003
|
DKOV Member Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
|
We are not doing a sequential 6 speed. It will be a manual 6 speed. ETA... late summer-ish. Cost... in line with a Getrag 282 and definately less than a 284. My hope it to get it less than $1800 new with full warranty. Getrags are running about $2300 for a new 282 and $2500 for a REBUILT 284. By the way, the official dry weight looks to be 97 lbs. That is only slightly lighter than a dry 282 at 105 lbs and a whole lot lighter than a dry 284 ar 141 lbs. DKOV - DMS
IP: Logged
|
12:27 AM
|
|
gixxer Member Posts: 451 From: Kent, Wa. USA Registered: Mar 2000
|
Looks like an plain jane '88 Esprit Turbo to me. Has the '88 only (U.S.) rear wheels, which only work with the earlier inboard brakes and Citroen trans, '88 mirrors and an '89 1/2 and up SE front end. SO what is that Lotus, actually? All Stevens' Esprits are called X-180s. Yours doesn't look like an X-180R. But it does look nice. I have an '89 Esprit so I know what they look like...
IP: Logged
|
01:15 AM
|
|
crzyone Member Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
|
One thing you havn't answered yet but I'm very interested in is having a bellhousing that will bolt up to a sbc. You could be a major suplier of manual transmissions for the big horsepower crowd. I'm excited, my next swap will be a sbc, need a trani to reliably hold up to 400+hp!
------------------ 87GT 4.9 in progress!
IP: Logged
|
01:23 AM
|
|
Razor_Wing Member Posts: 1753 From: Blowing Rock, NC, USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
| quote | Originally posted by DKOV: We are not doing a sequential 6 speed. It will be a manual 6 speed. ETA... late summer-ish. Cost... in line with a Getrag 282 and definately less than a 284. My hope it to get it less than $1800 new with full warranty. Getrags are running about $2300 for a new 282 and $2500 for a REBUILT 284. By the way, the official dry weight looks to be 97 lbs. That is only slightly lighter than a dry 282 at 105 lbs and a whole lot lighter than a dry 284 ar 141 lbs. DKOV - DMS |
|
I know it's not going to be sequential (I have been keeping up ), it would be like $25,000 then, lol! So the 6-speed WILL be able to bolt up to the 3.4L DOHC and use the fiero man. linkage? or will I need to put in a diffrent linkage? Does anyone know how much it would cost to change an automatic to a man. ? Would it be too difficult for me to do??? ------------------ <>{RazorWing}<>
IP: Logged
|
08:04 AM
|
|
1985FieroGT Member Posts: 3835 From: USA Registered: Sep 2002
|
YOU NEED TO MAKE A SMALL BLOCK BELLHOUSING. Think about it, every small block will be able to bolt up to it, including the 4.3's. Make 2 different bellhousing versions that can be easily unbloted, one for v6's, and then the one for the small block's, and 4.3. ------------------ PONTIAC FIERO OUTLAW -JESSE JAMES- 1984 Pontiac Fiero SE Project Weekend Warrior has started... (350 SBC) :)
IP: Logged
|
08:55 AM
|
|
Will Member Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
|
| quote | Originally posted by DKOV: We are not doing a sequential 6 speed. It will be a manual 6 speed. ETA... late summer-ish. Cost... in line with a Getrag 282 and definately less than a 284. My hope it to get it less than $1800 new with full warranty. Getrags are running about $2300 for a new 282 and $2500 for a REBUILT 284.
|
|
Are you using gears and synchros from something else (T56?) because I wouldn't think you could POSSIBLY supply it for that kind of price and cut your own gears. BTW, I get 282's for $80 each from the local U-Pull-It Having a SBC bell housing probably would not be economical, as only a small fraction of the market would want them. Think about the number of SBC Fiero guys compared to the number of people who want a strong manual trans for their FWD wheelspin wonder.
IP: Logged
|
11:05 AM
|
|
Will Member Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
|
Are you using a custom diff carrier, or borrowing the form factor from something else? If you borrow the diff dimensions from a common transaxle with available Quaife, then the Quaife will also fit your transaxle.
IP: Logged
|
11:10 AM
|
|