I pulled out my center console to do some spring cleaning since its warm out and also to get rid of all that crappy insulation. I found some scary stuff. First of all, there were a ton of leaves packed in around my ECM. Im lucky the car didnt catch on fire, that ECM gets pretty hot. Then I see one of the connectors in the firewall wasnt in place and i could see light through the hole. I have the leaky manifold and i think this is why the inside of my car always smelled like exhaust fumes.

Now this is the really scary part. Take a look at these wires... Sorry for the bad picture.

Someone must have been watching out for me because one spark and those leaves would have burst into flames. They were quite crispy. Now i have to redo this entire harness. Theres not a single wire in that plug that isnt stripped down to bare wire.

Have any of you seen something like this before? Could this be why the car is hard to start? And what is this harness for?

Thanks,
Steve

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87 GT Auto: Scorpion side scoop. Gas suspension on all 4 corners. That's it.
AIM: derangedsheep | email: elcodjsteveo@comcast.net
SUPPORTING MEMBER

i really cant tell what those wires are for but a good and cheap way to fix those wires it to use RTV. You know that silicone sealant. Or liguidelectrical tape. Just cote those bare wires in it and it should be preachy. Beats cutting and soldering or even worse getting a new harness.

Steve,

Let me know exactly where the harness goes. I might have an extra one for you.

Matt

I think it is C203 where the ECM EFI and a couple other things plug to the main harness.

Why it is that cooked is what you really need to worry about. there is little or nothing in that connector that draws very much current.

Yes, it could cause hard starting and many other problems. I'm surprised you haven't at least been repeatedly blowing fuses.

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Edison Carter: When did the News become Entertainment?
Murray: Since it was invented.

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

Had the car been sitting for any length of time? Perhaps a mouse decided to move into that area and build a home, which would account for the leaves AND the chewed wires. those buggers really love to nibble the insulation off wires like that.

just a thought,
Russ Camp

quote Originally posted by NINJAX: i really cant tell what those wires are for but a good and cheap way to fix those wires it to use RTV. You know that silicone sealant. Or liguidelectrical tape. Just cote those bare wires in it and it should be preachy. Beats cutting and soldering or even worse getting a new harness.

I agree entirely, plus cutting splicing the connection is going to be difficult at best, since they must be soldered and heat shrink used to prevent moisture, etc. from getting to the splices. One more thing. Make sure they are grease and silicone cleaned. This is, in my opinion the ONLY way to do the job correctly unless you want to replace the entire ECM wiring harness. Good luck!

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd

GM auto tech for 27 years. Specializing in electrical and computer problems. Now on workers comp. and it looks like I will be unable to return to work as a tech.

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Had the car been sitting for any length of time? Perhaps a mouse decided to move into that area and build a home, which would account for the leaves AND the chewed wires. those buggers really love to nibble the insulation off wires like that.

no, thats why its odd. the previous owner used it as a daily driver. now it has been basically sitting in my garage since august (only put 1000 miles on it) but the house is 5 years old and theres no rodents.

quote Originally posted by theogre: Why it is that cooked is what you really need to worry about. there is little or nothing in that connector that draws very much current.

theyre not melted. it looks like someone went in there with a knife and cut the insulation off them.

quote Originally posted by NINJAX: i really cant tell what those wires are for but a good and cheap way to fix those wires it to use RTV. You know that silicone sealant. Or liguidelectrical tape. Just cote those bare wires in it and it should be preachy. Beats cutting and soldering or even worse getting a new harness.

i would rather redo the harness. the wires are made up of a dunch of wires twisted together and some of them only have 3 or 4 small wires holding them together. im thinking there was a lot of electrical resistance.

Something very odd is or was going on for sure. I'd have to agree that it sounds like rodent damage. Depending on where the car has been in its life the damage could be quite old. There is really no way leaves and stuff could get into there w/o help.

I double checked and that is C203. Again... there is nothing running thru there that would trash the wires like that. Yes, the resistance from the damage will screw up the car. You're lucky it runs at all.

Trying to replace that harness is a major project. C203 is connected directly to the entire engine bay harness. The only way to do this w/o splicing is to have a complete harness transplant. Even assuming you can get a correctly optioned harness, this won't be fun or easy.

C203 is a back loaded connector and you can replace the terminals. There isn't much slack there so this is how I would fix it.

Get a couple C203 connectors with as much wire as you can. You may need more than one depending on how the donor car was optioned.

I think C203 may have TPA. You have to remove the TPA part from the main connector body. (See my cave. I don't have this specific connector but it will explain what I mean.) Do this for your car and the donor connectors.

Pick the donor connector that is most like your original one. One wire at a time cut and splice to the same terminal on the donor. Use high quality splicing techniques. I would use non insulated crimps and heat shrink tubing. Or solder them and use heat shrink. (Note that this is a relatively dry area. corrosion should not be a problem. If it was C203 would be a weather pack.) Using standard insulated terminals will result in a really bulky mess. Try to stager the splices some no matter which way you do them.

Warning! any crimps you use must be crimped with the propper tool. Insulated and non insulated use different tools. Use a high quality tool to insure good force is delivered to the crimp. (and won't cut the insulation on insulated crimps.)

If you are short wires on the donor plug... remove the terminals and wire from another donor and use them to fill the gaps. don't worry about wire colors. do make sure wires sizes match. (I think they are all the same gauge.)

I believe C203's terminal work similar to the ones shown in my cave. You put a small screw driver or wire into the notch on the front side to release the tang and pull the terminal out the back. The TPA is differant from C500 and I don't know how it comes out off hand.

thanks for the writeup. i think im going to get a spare c203 connector. then ill 1 by one splice the wires in and make sure the wire positions on the connestor are correct.

The second most important connection in the harness, and it looks like that!!! SCARY!! BTW, Air conditioning power, Injector power and computer power all come into the engine harness through the C203, so it has/had some potential to cause a real disaster! Especially with that fluffy brown insulation they use in the center console. Good thing you caught it.

Leaves+ loose connector+chewed wires = rodent: Mouse, Red Squirrel, Chipmunk, homeless hamster etc. One of my restoration projects had a nest on the ECM. Other favorite locations for nests is in the insulation on the strut towers, heater ducts (big fire hazard because of the fan resister)), behind the tail lights, and the valleys under the wipers. Only sure cure is to keep a live snake in a stored car .

Good luck,
Dave

Bizarre Fire Hazard!!!

If / when you do the splice thing, stagger the splices. In other words, don't make all of the splices 2" from the connector, do one at 1", one at 1.5", 2" and so on. This will do two things: Reduce the 'bulge' you'd have in the splice area, and reduce the odds that if in the future slipped insulation on the splices can short out to an adjacent splice. While you probably won't be to stagger every splice (too many in space available), if you plan it right you'll get an even mix. If it were me I'd try to find a way to get a piece of heat shrink tubing over the entire harness in the end. Solder and heat shrink is my preferred method. If I were paranoid I corona dope the soldered splice before sliding the heat shink over it. Good Luck!

you could just pull well not pull but unhook the wires out of the connecter one by one and just slide heat shrink over them. thats what i would do better than silcon crap or cuting . and easier

quote Originally posted by F8: you could just pull well not pull but unhook the wires out of the connecter one by one and just slide heat shrink over them. thats what i would do better than silcon crap or cuting . and easier

i would do that, but like i said before, some of the wires only have 2 or 3 strands left in them and theyre all corroded and oxidezed. this will make a lot of electrical resistance and i would feel much better just replacing the wires.

but, some ove the wires just have a lot of insulation off and theyre not down to bare wire, or theres just a little bare wire showing. so those i may just heatshrink.

[This message has been edited by derangedsheep (edited 03-09-2004).]

I'd agree with those on the rodent theory -- um, you didn't find any "smart pills"
around the cabin, didja

-jeff d

quote Originally posted by derangedsheep: theyre not melted. it looks like someone went in there with a knife and cut the insulation off them.

The damage looks like cutting, not chewing.

This is the harness that gets pushed through the firewall when the cradle is dropped, right? I'll bet dollars to donuts that this harness got scraped on the sheet steel on the pass-through when somebody dropped the cradle. Maybe they disconnected it from the ECM but never pushed it all the way through the firewall. When the cradle was dropped, these wires catch on the firewall, and under the weight of the dropping cradle, get their insulation stripped.

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GO BUCKS!!!

[This message has been edited by Dave Rodabaugh (edited 03-09-2004).]

So does anyone think it would be a BAD idea to just use butt crimps and heatshrink? I think that is a very viable solution.. Just looking for opinions.

At a minimum the repair should be done with a solder joint and the type of heat shrink that has heat-activated adhesive/sealer inside. Be sure not to use acid-core solder, and it would be a good idea to deflux the joint before sealing it up with the heat shrink.

JazzMan

That looks like definite rodent damage. Had the same thing in one of my Fieros that I don't drive much. little bastards got some spark plug wires along with some wiring close to the battery and then had the nerve to leave crap on top of the intake plenum, right in the Fiero engraving. How about that sh*t!

the above comments about doing the splices correctly should absolutely be followed.

i can't tell you how many bad splice jobs i've seen and the problems they cause. beware a car with blue and red crimp connectors and speaker wire connecting non-speakers! (that clear silver and copper stuff is most common).

a proper splice will last forever and never cause you a problem, ever again.

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88 4cyl 5spd Western Edition
88 Formula 5spd SOLD :( but to be replaced someday.

FIXED!!

took about 1.5 to 2 hours to do it. there were 7 total wires that needed to be fixed. i spliced and heat shrunk the ones that had broken wires or a whole ton of insulation missing. the others only had a very small amount of insulation missing, maybe 1-3 milimeters. so those i wraped in electrical tape and heat shrunk.

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87 GT Auto AIM: derangedsheep | email: elcodjsteveo@comcast.net
View my Award Winning Fiero Presentation HERE

Your work looks good.

now quit chewing on your wires!!! lol