Can the theftlock on a 2001 GM stereo that uses the body controller be deactivated? Does it have to go to the dealer? Can it be done through the buttons?

thanx,
Bob

I don't know about deactivating it, it's possible to have someone do it that works/repairs them.
I can tell you that the only way I know to re-activate the radio is by the dealer. There are a bunch of codes that the dealer has to call in with, and when they call, you have to supply a dealer code. I know this because I previously worked at a dealer. The plus side is that it doesn't cost much to do this, and you can ask the dealer who they part out thier complicated radio work to, and have them deactivate the theft system. hope this helps.

Thanx...ahhh..Wetpoop.

If the radio was tied to the OBD2 bus then you are SOL.

Presently even GM dealers are being told by GM that the VINed radios cannot be moved from one car to another. Once a replacement radio is programmed it is pemanently tied to that VIN.

Gm has taken it even further in that you can't upgrade to other GM/Delphi radios in many models and the dealers aren't all that happy about it either. Radio upgrades are a significant source of income for many of them.

This goes way beyond anti theft...

Part of the problem is that these radios are tied to the whole OBD2/GMlan network. The "radio" is never actually off fully. They are used by OnStar and anything else that needs to process sound. (They replace the chime box.) This has created odd problems for GM as well. They had to get creative with the police optioned cars so they would be able to keep audible warning signals and leave the front speakers free for police radios. (Police optioned cars have the front speaker output from the sound system wired to the rear speakers.)

------------------
Edison Carter: When did the News become Entertainment?
Murray: Since it was invented.

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

Thanx Ogre. That's what I was afraid of. When I powered up the radio, it showed the theft lock was engaged. Examination showed it was tied to the OBDII. I put it in my Montana and it seemed toi work fine, I even played and listened to a couple of songs. But when my wife started the van, the theftlock warning came on and locked her out.

... Anyone need a big square paperweight????

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 03-14-2004).]

Hrmm... on new vehicles the decks generally have a code attached to them which the cleaners usually rip off and throw out... I figured all you really needed was the radio code to reactivate it.

maybe this guy can help....email him
unlocker03@hotmail.com

------------------

Yeah, I work in the install department at best buy, and I see these "anti-theft" systems all the time. Most of the time when you do unplug the radio and then power it back up the "anti-theft" aspect doesnt even work, it turns on and plays fine. But for the few that do lock me out I call up the local dealer and give them the serial # on the radio and they tell me the codes. So your best bet is to go to a dealer and ask them to unlock it, it usually costs around $35 or so, but sometimes they do it for free if they are nice.

------------------
Gold 86 Fiero GT
Future plans: Not to start on fire!

Thanx everyone. I played with it a litle more. Whenever I unplug it and plug it back in, the radio works fine. But there is a catch. It works in accy mode only. As soon as I try to start, it longer works. If I disconnect the OBDII line, it does not work at all. I'm going to hook an oscope to the OBDII line to see what it does in accy mode, as soon as it warms back up.
As for entering the code, I know how to do it and even bypass it, the problem is that it only works on radios that require a code to be entered by the owner. GM also has a theft lock that uses the VIN number from the body controller to determine whether it works or not. This is the type used in the Montana, which is what I have. I just bought another unit, 2000 Grand Am Monsoon unit, that uses the code and is not active. If I can't spoof the Montana unit, I'll use it for spare parts, ie cd, cass, buttons, etc.
I'll keep this post updated on what I find.

It works in ACC because the car doesn't wake up in that mode. As soon as you turn the key to run, all modules go thru assorted diagnostic and comunications initializations what include making sure the VIN matches in not just the radio but several other modules as well. It is durring that wakeup that the radio shuts out. If you scan the BCM with a Tech 2 you may even see a DTC that the radio didn't match and/or is missing.

If there is any way to change the VIN in these radios, GM and Delphi aren't talking. As I said above... Many dealers are not happy. They are now locked out of installing used parts like everyone else.

Ogre...does the system work both ways? i.e. I understand you can't pull a radio from one car and install it in another. Does the car depend on a particular "vinned" radio for the functions you mentioned above? If the radio can't be upgraded, apparently you can't install an aftermarket unit, or even a "generic" GM radio?

If that's the case, what has to happen if a radio fails? New factory-programmed part/factory repair on the unit?

Ogre: That's what I was thinking, except the OBDII line has to be connected even in the accy mode. If I can replicate the signal in accy mode, then it will work when the car turns over.

Andy: It doesn't work the other way. The body controller may or may not note that the radio is not there, but it doesn't affect operation. An aftermarket stereo only needs power and speakers, it could care less what the body controller is doing. Some of the options on the car may be missing, such as Onstar, but thats' the price you pay to upgrade your tunes.

Presently the only authorized source of a fully functional replacement radio for a VIN locked system is GM. I expect that if GM finds anyone offering replacements without their permission they will hear from GM lawyers quickly. (I also expect it will be done using the DMCA used among other things to go after software and DVD pirates.)

My understanding is the VIN burns into a write once area of memory inside the unit. Either the radio learns the VIN the first time it is connected or it has to be programmed with a Tech2 diagnostic scanner. I believe the latter is the case. Same as you would have to do for a replacement BCM or PCM, which is why most shopws can't install those modules either.

If you are trying to stay with VINed units then No, you can't upgrade the thing to other GM radios in many models. Explaining how the Tech2 scanner works is more complicated than I can get into. In very short... When you set up the scanner you build a copy of the car's configuration in the scanner. The scanner will only talk to authorized combinations of things for that vehicle. If GM says that model can have Radio A or B and you try to use Radio C the scanner won't let you. The Tech2 is fed from a data base that comes out I think once a quarter on CD and from updates dealers can download from GM.

These problems aren't just with radios either. Even changing tire size on many newer GM vehicles is a pain. Example: GM offers bigger tires for some truck models. A GM dealer has to call a GM office for a new code so they can recalibrate the PCM etc for the new tires. GM charges for this change. If you change back to original tires you have to redo the calibration, and pay for it again. If you don't make these changes the vehicle won't run right. The Tech2 is actually available to the aftermarket ( http://www.vetronix.com/ ) but I'm betting GM would not give those tool owners the codes to fix the vehicle in this case.

Yes, aftermarket radios will work as far as "basic" function. There are issues with doing this, mainly you will probably not have OnStar or any other vehicle functions that came thru the sound system.

One I am still looking into is if an owner and/or shop installing the aftermarket unit would have legal issues. If disabling the OE radio violates the FMVSS standards in any way, a shop could definitely be in trouble. Nearly everything that has to do with even small vehicle safety issues can be an FMVSS issue. I don't think there is a problem but if I owned a shop I'd make sure as penalties are stiff if there is ever an issue raised.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-18-2004).]

How can I tell one of these "VIN" radios by looking ? I have a chance to pick one up from a 2001 TransAm.

Ogre: What's FMVSS?

Frostbyte: You really can't tell by looking at it. The two radios I have now are nearly identical. The pinout for the radio would show whether the OBDII is connected to it or not. FWIW, I don't think the F-bodies used the VIN coded radio, but I could be wrong. Kru might be able to help, since he sells late model GM radios for the Fiero.

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 03-19-2004).]

Sorry... FMVSS = Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Nearly everything to do with vehicle safety issues is regulated in some way thru these rules. There are links to them on the link page in my cave. I don't think the sound system affects any other regulated systems but I just can't say for sure. This would be an issue more for proffesionals and shops selling/installing sound gear than a vehicle owner.

I don't know how to tell simply by looking at a radio either. I would see if you can find the wiring diagram for the vehicle in question and compare that to the older style radios. On the VIN locked radios there is going to be at least one extra wire that doesn't go to obvious items like speakers power or ground.

PS...

FIero's original radio had the terminal functions marked right on the case. If the newer ones still do that it would be one way to tell even if the radio is out.

The newer radios that communicate with the BCM have a serial data link input signal. They also do not have a switched power source wire since they do silly stuff like turn themselves off when the drivers door is opened and closed. The one I have also has a little red theftlock light right on the front.

From 12volt.com:

The following procedure will give you a master code that you can use instead of your personal code. Using this new code, you can “unlock” your radio and then “re-lock” it with a new code if you wish.
Prerequisites:
The radio must be in LOC mode NOT in INOP mode.

Let me explain. If you have activated the Theft-Deterrent feature of your radio and loose power, the radio goes into LOC (theftlock) mode. With the ignition on, you must use the MN and HR buttons to enter you personal code in order to unlock it (The instructions are on page 3-27 in your Y2K Owner’s manual). If you fail to enter the correct code eight (8) times, the radio goes into INOP mode. You have to wait an hour with the ignition on before the radio returns to LOC mode (go for a long drive somewhere).

Procedure:
01. Turn the ignition ON (The radio displays LOC)
02. Hold down the Radio Presets 2 and 3 buttons for six seconds
03. The radio display changes from LOC to a three-digit number. Write this number down. Don’t take forever, fifteen seconds max before the next step.
04. Press the AM/FM button
05. The radio display changes to another three-digit number. Write this number to the right of the first one.
06. You now have a six-digit number, the first three digits are from STEP 03 and the last three digits are form STEP 05
07. Call 1 800 537 5140
08. Press 139010 then # (pound). You will be asked to enter your four or six digit code followed by * (start)
9. Enter the number from STEP 6 then # or * (both work)
10. Listen to the four-digit number and write it down. It will be repeated twice
11. Turn the ignition ON (The radio displays LOC)
12. Use the MN and HR buttons to enter the code from STEP 11
13. Press the AM/FM button. The radio display changes to SEC

Hope this helps everyone.

Kris

------------------

Thanx for posting it Kris. Hopefully it can help someone. Unfortuneately, my radio uses the VIN from the body controller, so this method will not work.

Just a quick update on my situation. I now have two working radios. Both are theftlocked. I connected an O-scope to one of them while installed in my Montana. I now have a copy of the three signals going back and forth on the data bus. If I get the time, I'm going to build a circuit that replicates these signals. I've got the circuit in my head already, so it 's just a matter of building it. I'll keep the forum updated if there is further progress.
Thanx for everyone's help...

Bob

I would be interested in hearing your progress on replicating the wake-up signal. VERY interested.

Let me clear up a few misconceptions. These are all facts and are based on my NUMEROUS sales of the VA/CI (Vin-Assigned/Computer-Integrated) radios.

First of all, a radio that comes from one vehicle CAN be used in another vehicle. A couple requirements though:

1) The VIN must be reassigned on the radio. As mentioned above, it has the VIN of the car it came from stored inside it. This must be cleared and the VIN of the new vehicle must be assigned. Any GM shop can do this with their Tech II device. This explains why you can disconnect the battery from a car, then reconnect it and the radio still works. As soon as you throw it in a different car though, it won't work. The VINs don't match.

2) The radio must have been an available option in the vehicle you are trying to put it in. Doesn't mean it had to come with that radio. Just that it had to be an option. And it must be the exact same model radio that was offered. (Chevy had multiple radios that looked identical from the face but they are totally incompatible. A Trailblazer radio does not work in a Monte Carlo, for instance, even though the radio face looks IDENTICAL.) The Montana and GA radios from 2000 on (Montana) and 2001 on (GA) are compatible. (I'm not sure about 04 though.) The same exact units were offered in both.

The computer-integrated part of the equation is in the form of a wake-up signal that is sent to the radio periodically. If the radio does not receive the signal, it won't work.

This all combines to give GM authorized repair shops a monopoly on the repair business. Tech II devices are available for about $2000 but the wake-up box is not generally available. This is why I'd be interested to know if you are able to successfully replicate the 'wake-up' signal. If so, I could use a similiar set-up on my workbench to test the radios like this outside of the cars. (After I purchase a Tech II for clearing the VIN, that is.)

Hopefully this was useful information for some of you, at least...

-Kevin

[This message has been edited by kru (edited 05-14-2004).]

Kevin, I got your PM and responded.

For anyone else, so far I have been unsuccessful. I revamped the driver circuit and it seems to work much better. The timing for output signal seems to be off, though. I just haven't had time to re-confirm the signals in my Montana. I'll get back to it sooner or later....

Bob