Ok, I'm hitting a wall here. My 3.4 won't start and its soooo close. I know its got gas and fuel pressure, so I'm sure its a timing problem.

Here's what I did while the engine was out of the car.
I tried to find TDC by using a screw driver to feel when Cylinder #1 was all the way up. I felt the air come out and assumed that was the exhaust stroke, so I cranked it till it came up again and the LARGE notch on the Harmonic Balancer was at About 10 or so on the scale. I put the distributor in so that the rotor was pointing to the small bolt on the upper plenum that holds up the Throttle Body coolant lines.

I tried starting it and heres what happened.
Last night, without messing with anything, I tried starting it and it would catch for just a second then die, no matter how many times I tried it. Today, I loosened the dist. and tried turning it either way and I got it to run for just a couple of seconds before it died. It was just barely running before it quit. I couldn't get any better than that, so I tried pulling the dist. and advancing it by one tooth. That seemed to work better, but after a couple tries it went back to just cranking over, not catching. So I tried one tooth retarded from the original spot, and still no luck.

What do you guys think? Was it not at TDC to begin with? Should I try going more than one tooth advanced or retarded? All help is appreciated!

As soon as you feel air rush out of the number one cylinder, you should be at TDC. Your timing mark should be near zero when this happens. You can set it to 10 degrees BTDC and then set the rotor in your distributor to be pointing to the number one post of the distributor, The little metal vanes inside the distributor will be lined up at this point too. Hope this helps.

What do I do now that the engines back in the car? Bump it till its at about TDC?

Or can I keep playing with the distributor and get it?

Are you sure you have all your injector connectors seated fully? You could be just firing on the cold start injector. Try spraying a little gas into the TB as someone cranks it. If it wants to run when you do, well...

Also, are you sure you're not 180 out and that your blancer hasen't shifted? I would ignore the timing marks and confirm TDC on the compression stroke. Remove the value cover over #1 and when the intake value closes you're comming up on compression. Use a dowel or plastic straw and watch for TDC, then look down at your harmonic blancer marks. Remember, there's a dead spot at TDC, so you may still be off a few degrees, but it should be close enough to run. Good luck.

yea did the same thing my 1st time. After u find the TDC on #1 dont be mad if she does not start.
u can then be 180 off on the dist.

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Yeah, I'm gonna start from scratch tomarrow. Get it to TDC, set the timing mark, and reinstall the dist. at #1. Hopefully that'll get it close enough to start and I can fine tune from there. Thanks for the help guys!

Quick Question also, which cylinder is the #1 cylinder? Standing at the back of the car facing the engine...

I gotta do timing also.

Thanks

Tony

In GM cars the #1 cylinder is always the one closest to the water pump. That makes the V6 cylinder #1 the rear bank right end.

JazzMan

So at the back of the car looking down, its bottom right cylinder. Thanks =)

Tony

RRrrrrr still no luck. It started and ran weak for a few seconds again, then died. It pops a lot and tries, but it just won't quite start. I'm gonna try a little engine start and see if it likes that.

BIG IMPORTANT QUESTION: What is the timing supposed to be set to??? At first someone said 11* and that didn't work, then I heard 9* and that helped, but its still not starting. I thought I heard 6* mentioned too. Which is it????

My sticker says 10 degrees BTDC for my V6 '87 GT.

Hmmm I've got it at about 9* right now and its so close, just not going.

sounds like you might be 180 degrees out. you should have had the valve cover off so that you would have know which valve was open.

I've tried moving the dist 180* and it makes it worse. I had a long conversation with Toddster and we think the problem is that I'm trusting the timing marks and scale on the harmonic balancer. This is the 2.8 scale and balancer on the 3.4 motor, so who knows if they're even close. Tomarrow I'm going to pull plug one and manually set it to TDC exactly so its at 0*, then set the dist. to plug one. This should get the car running, at which I can fine tune it at the dist.

Hey, at least its not throwing any codes!

Hello Fastback 86,

I have to agree with Kameo Kid, you’re 180 degrees out.

Quoting from your original post:

“I felt the air come out and assumed that was the exhaust stroke, so I cranked it till it came up again and the LARGE notch on the Harmonic Balancer was at About 10 or so on the scale.”

With your thumb on the spark plug hole and feeling air coming out, this would indicated the piston is in its compression phase, not the exhaust phase. In the exhaust phase, with the exhaust valve in the open position, you would not feel any air at all. The air would simply seek atmospheric pressure through an open to air exhaust valve. With the “feel” of air pressure, both valves are closed, causing compression, in preparation for ignition. You should be approaching TDC at that time. Do not crank through another 360 degrees on the crankshaft, this will put you 180 degrees out on the camshaft and the distributor shaft. As they rotate on a one to four ratio to the crank.

You have come a long way, hats off to you Fastback 86. Most people would have never even thought of attempting what you have done, or given up half way through. I can smell your success, you are very close. Keep optimistic, positive thoughts.

Reno

(edited for spelling)
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'86 GT - "The Black Bomb" It'll sneek up on you.

[This message has been edited by Reno Scoopeno (edited 04-18-2004).]

Like I was telling you last night in chat, if you think you are 180 degrees out, you could move the cylinder number 1 plug wire to the number four position on the distributor cap. Relocate all the other wires so number 2 would go to 5, 3 to 6, etc. and see if it runs. If it does run, turn off the engine and turn it by hand, one more turn from when the rotor points to the number 4 position, on the distributor, with the timing marks are at zero, and reinstall the distributor so that it is pointing to the number 1 position again, then move the plug wires back to their proper positions. This should get your engine back to where it should be.

Yea I moved my wires over on my cap, and that’s how I am running my car! Looks funny maybe some day I will fix it.
Also did u play with the lash at all. Could be a combination on valve lash and 180 out.