Ok, before anyone bashes me for this question "you can't learn if you don't ask"

What exactly is the diffrence between a 3800 engine compared to a factory 2.8

Those who have a 3800, or know alot about them, what are the pros' and cons' of this engine...

Besides personal prefferance would it be a dumb idea to go from a 2.5 strait to a 3800 or would me swaping out my 4 banger to a 2.8 be a better idea..?

Does anyone care to teach me a l;ittle bit about engines and engine swaps ?

------------------

White 87 Coupe in sig. 4 Sale

AIM: Fierofreek8488

"1.0"

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

------------------
RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto

My .02 Cents here. I did the exact same swap you're thinking about last year with my 88 coupe. I ditched the mighty duke and went the 2.8 route. I used the stock Izusu 5spd and trudged forward. Would I do it again? I dunno, I'm getting ready. The 2.8 is a VAST improvment over the duke. The total swap cost a good chunk of change. I refuse to add it all up, ignorance is bliss. However it a blast to drive.

The 3800 series engine is total departure from the 2.8 realm. A definate cool way to go but requires more work than the 2.8 swap. Most of the required info for fabricating the neccessary mounts and wiring issues is right here using the search the option. Alot of guys have done it and have posted a ton a great info on the subject. If you're looking for a direct swap, the 2.8 is the route to go. The C-500 connector is an 88 thing so my advise is to get an 88 motor to keep it as "plug and play" as possible. If you have a garage and time to spare then 3800 route may be a VERY good option.

Even swapping a series II 3800 N/A motor is a big improvment over the 2.8. But if you're gonna go that route you may as well find a good 38000/SC. From what I hear, its only a copuple more wires over the N/A motor.

I know someone here will chime in and keep this going. There are folks here who know way more than I do on the subject.

88Ironduke

------------------
Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses.
I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.

Edit:
PM Foxgapfiero for an 88 motor. Hes not far from you

[This message has been edited by 88Ironduke (edited 10-16-2004).]

Well, I have approx. 2 weeks to decide (or less) on wether or not Im going to buy a 3800 (i have the money for it and know where to get it) Then again I also have a 2.8 with 35,xxx miles on that im not getting rid of no matter which decison I make... But I want to know which engine is going in once I pull out the 2.5 (so Im tring to learn a little bit by posting this thread.... Im hoping a buncha smart asses dont chime in...

But yea, In all seriousness... Teach this engine newbie something please...

~Tim

Well I'm no expert either....but owning an 84 SE, I can see your dilemna. ANYTHING would be better than the "mighty" duke. A good engine to the end.....but don't push it...hehe.

If I were you and I had the money to buy the engine....and I had a place or the means to do the swapping/fabricating....I would go with a 3800. Heck....if you're still not satisfied with that.....you could always later buy a 3800 SC and drop it right in place of the NA. If I didn't have all that....I'd definately do the 2.8. Whatever you decide....it will be a BIG improvement I'm sure....so don't sweat it!

------------------
I have the precious gift of patience.....it just takes too long to use it!

Aside from buying the engine itself, where would I gets the parts I need to do this swap, what are the parts, and what kinda money am I looking at in the swap itself...?

quote Originally posted by 88GTFormula: Aside from buying the engine itself, where would I gets the parts I need to do this swap, what are the parts, and what kinda money am I looking at in the swap itself...?

Unless you find someone closer to you, call Twin Lakes Fiero (Northeastern, Ill) . They do 3.8 conversions and would be a good source of info.

Look up Rockcrawl here on the forum. If you can get in touch with him, he will even do the swap for you. Heres his website with info you need.
http://fp.enter.net/~rockcrawl/index2.html
Look at http://www.westcoastfiero.com/ for mounts, etc.

look at www.ZZPerformance.com for performance mods, VERY easy to get 300HP out of these motors for little money.
Look at this thread to see why you need to go with the SC3800 instead of keeping the 2.8. In the long run it would be worth it!
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/034445.html

------------------

1988 Purple Fiero GTw/SC3800 conversion
Best ET with 3.0 pulley,XPHOT cam, SS I/C and 105lb Valve springs: 12.72@109mph
Best 60 Foot ever: 1.735

Ok, so this 2.5 to 3.8 swap is gonna be a hek of alot for a first timer and very pricey...?

What al interesting can be done to a 2.8...?

What can it handle and when does it poop out ?

(I'm just tring to get to know fiero engines and all possible swaps before I put anymore money into this thing and wind up getting something I don't want...)

This will be a show car, and as any fiero owner I'd like it to be uniquely Moded (tastefully) but also have it in a very working reliable order (the guy that got me into fieros "I Drive Excitement" here on the forum says "Its a fiero, its not always reliable... But he has had a good bit of problems with his 86Gt and he's also a busy guy...

Im looking for the cheapest (yet well build), most reliable engine to go with except the 2.5 (to slow, original, and Im the kinda guy that likes to know the get up and go is behind me when i need it)

What should I go with...? Im not looking to NOS the hek out of anything either... Another friend I have supercharged his 2.8... What kinda money is involved in that process... Would that be a bad move to make ?

It is unique and Im sure its fast when it wants to be... reliable...?

What is gonna be the easiest on my wallet (im not a cheapsk8 looking for a cheep way out... I have relized owning a fiero isnt the ccheap way to go, lol)

Im tring to learn a little bit here... Where should I start in supercharging a 2.8 ?

I would go straight to the 3800SC.

You will be happy with the 2.8 for a short time and then want more power.

It will be cheaper in the long run to go to the 3800 from the get go.

------------------


1988 Fiero Formula T-Top # 1008 of 1252 (5 Spd White /Gray)
Click here to go to my Web site
Please use the Rating system accordingly

Tim, thanks again for the side scoops, they're awesome!!!

I was in the same boat you're in now, with my old '88 coupe. It was a great engine, but boring. It took some time but a buddy and I put in a '88V6, and I changed the personality of the car. It was soooo nice!!! Then again, I really enjoyed my first Fiero, a '85 2m4 5-spd. I threw on a Flowmaster and it really opened up the engine.

My suggestion is to drive each car with the various engines, and decide what is right for you. From personal experience, going from a duke to a stock 2.8 is awesome. Not that hard, actually, I heard more obscenities while installing the throttle cable than at any other point during the conversion. I had a wrench thrown at me once! LOL
But, if you're going to do the 2.8, why not the 3.4? Driving Jen's (fierochic88) '85GT, it launches like HE!!, but top end is limited to the 4-spd.

Turboing the 2.8 is a big improvement, but the damn things are so touchy. Something always needs tuned and there's always something else I need or should do. Sometimes I want to toss it and go 3800S/C.

Last weekend Tony (lowfierogt) took me for a ride and his 3800S/C, and it is awesome. The perfect engine for the Fiero. Plenty of power and that supercharger sounds soo sweet. I'm sure he gets the same expressions on peoples faces when the supercharger starts whining as when I dump 6lbs of boost thru the Greddy blow off valve. People just don't expect those noises from Fieros. Fun Fun!!

That noise coming from a fiero (the good one coming from a supercharger or something of that nature is EXACTLY what I want)

But in the same respect I dont want to have something everyone else has like these 3.4's everyones getting now... (nothing wrong with 3.4's) Its just something that everyone has...

I want something that not everone has, but ppl also know alot about..

Such as a Supercharged 2.8

Any info. on this ?

Thanx for everyones help so far and the help to follow...
~Tim

Keep an eye on ebay. Not too long ago a supercharger was sold for the 2.8 for about 300 bucks. Not sure who got it, but I had an eye on it for a day or two.

------------------

ok the sig won't work...

[This message has been edited by turbo86se (edited 10-17-2004).]

first before you go out and more than double your hp... how good of a driver are you??? you dont want a car that you cant drive... if you havent been driving long and havent driven anything other than underpowerd 4bangers then i would go w/ the 2.8 because its a HUGE power increase over the 4 banger as is. but if you have been driving a while and believe in your abilities of driving/throttle control then i would hop on up to the 3800. and if your lucky enough to find a 3800sc then go for it. but the main thing is dont build a car that you cant drive. think realisticly and remember how much tires cost lol...

------------------
'86 Fiero GT

My Fiero XoticRydz
Mid-Rear Madness

The iron head 2.8 is a poorly designed motor between its oiling design and powerband it makes for a good boat anchor.The 3800 on the other hand is one of the best designed engines in the world and definatley one of the longest lasting/most reliable.

The 2.8, while a vast imrovement over the duke, is still a dog. If you want to stay in the 60* family, go with a 3.4. If you want more than that, go with the 3800. It's a great engine, and it runs with the V8's pretty well.

------------------

Your motor choice all depends on what you are looking for performance wise. The 3800 is a very good engine with a stout bottom (when compared to the stock 2.8) and is a very reliable engine.

I myself have a Vortech Supercharged 3.3 liter (started as a 2.8), my goal was to get a moderate amount of HP (280-300HP) out of a 2.8 block but also keep the semi-factory look to the engine bay, even though a 3800SC can also look very good in the back. Now keep in mind that I have more $$$$ in my 2.8 than most guys have in their V-8 swaps, but I wanted to do something different with my car so I decided to build up the 2.8. I will probably go with a 3800SC eventually and swap the 2.8SC into another GT for my wife, but that will be later on down the road.

I did get my motor running this weekend, and I must say hearing a Blow Off Valve dump 8 lbs of boost does sound quite unatural coming out of the back of a Fiero! Now the fun really begins, after a couple of shake down runs next week, I can start to tune it and work out any possible bugs it may have.

Main difference is its capable of at least double the horsepower.........

I''ll speak more to the engines.

The 2.8 is a Chevy family engine while the 3.8 is a Buick family engine. The 3.8 family has been around since the early 60's and has been refined many times over. The 2.8 family is a fairly new series of engine which was introduced in the early 80's.

Given the fuel ecomomy and power of the Buick I don't think there are a lot of engines out there that can beat it. However swapping a Buick requires a lot more skill. IIRC you are buying a 2.8 parts car from mattm--if you use the part from that car the 2.5 to 2.8 swap should be fairly straight forward.

go 3800.
the 2.8 is nice when you have a 4cyl, but once your on the road, and cant keep up with ANY current grocery getters, it will feel real bad haveing done all that work. the 3800 is not a monster motor, but it has more room to grow than the 2.8. to me, the real winning factor on what motor to pick is what motor is available at a reaosnable cost. all motor swaps require the same thing - the motor, the ECM, the wiring & the accesories; and require roughy the same work - mounting, wiring & plumbing. the 3800 is a common motor, should be easy to find, and has a good amount of power. 3100 & 3400's are pretty easy finds also.

quote Originally posted by Hank is Here: IIRC you are buying a 2.8 parts car from mattm--if you use the part from that car the 2.5 to 2.8 swap should be fairly straight forward.

We'll, I have a 2.8 with 35,xxx miles on it ready to drop in once i get a cradle and ECM that should have been sent by now which I doubt has happened... And I know where to get a 3800 (series 1 from an 88 buick... 109,xxx miles) for $200 but I have to decide if I'm gonna do that yet... If I am, getting it then I'll probally stick it in the 85GT Im picking up 2morrow from lancaster... If not, I may just get another (bigger engine)... Who knows...

~Tim

If you go 3800 route, save up for a Series II. Series I won't be that much of an improvement over the 2.8 unless its Supercharged.

Well im no expert either but i have read alot about fierox's car... Its a 3800 siries II turbocharged. I have talked to him alot and he said for a 3800 turbo is way more efficient. He started out with a superchaged and did a dino test on a turbo and was very impressed with the turbo. So yeah a 3800 siries II T66 turbos are totaly awesome. he is hoping to be in the 10s when his trany gets back.

quote Originally posted by 88GTFormula: And I know where to get a 3800 (series 1 from an 88 buick... 109,xxx miles) for $200 ~Tim

Heck I throw out the 3800's. They aren't bad engine but don't have significantly more pwoer than the 2.8. When you get to the 3800 Gen I and 3800 Gen II then it is worth the trouble of the swap. Even swapping a 3800 Gen would be boarderline in my opinion.

3800 series 1 motors have 8.5:1 compression, perfect for a mild turbo setup. Even without the turbo, 30 HP with a fatter torque curve is fairly significant (21%).

GL

[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 10-19-2004).]