I made these today , can anyone guess what I will be using them for ? I made them for something I am working on but they can be used for another purpose also.
Still need to clean them up a little more and paint them.
Yes , that is one way they are used and hopefully will be used in the future. But it is not the reason I made them ... I made them for something else. What is it ?
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07:39 PM
$Rich$ Member
Posts: 14575 From: Sioux Falls SD Registered: Dec 2002
Yes , that is one way they are used and hopefully will be used in the future. But it is not the reason I made them ... I made them for something else. What is it ?
lack of anything better to do?
my guess is to bolt a rim to it on the table and polish away
[This message has been edited by $Rich$ (edited 12-07-2004).]
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07:44 PM
topcat Member
Posts: 5486 From: Charleston SC Registered: Dec 2001
------------------ 4.9 Caddy in Garage! Car in Driveway! ACK! **************************************** http://home.cfl.rr.com/fierose Central Florida Fieros http://www.centralfloridafieros.org Proud Member and founder of the DOWN SOUTH SUNNY WINTER PICK ON SNOW PEOPLE COALITION!
[This message has been edited by Kento (edited 12-07-2004).]
By the size, I suspect that they will go under the bolts that hold your rear shocks in place and then be connected to a bar of sorts to provide a more rigid frame. Or maybe your lady friend has big ears.
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10:20 PM
sonic50 Member
Posts: 3873 From: All over the USA Registered: Aug 2004
Ehh.. suspending the rear end was my guess too. Maybe we had to be more specific, perhaps if you use these, with a jack on the center rear of the cradle, u can lower the car til the control arms are level, then torque the bolts down that goes through the control arms so to set the poly bushings in the right spot...
Ok, actually its really simple. I made them basically as a tool for the frontend. They are exactly the same height as my wheels so when bolted on in place of the wheels and the weight of the car placed on them it will load the front suspension up at ride height. I wanted to do this for a couple reasons.....one , with the wheels on the car I can not see the suspension at all. I want to see how everything is settling once it is loaded up. Especially after I reinstall the A-arms with Rodney's drop ball joints. I will be able to check everything out just as it will be sitting with the wheels on and everything loaded up. I can check the endlinks on the sway bar to make sure they are correct and the bumpstops for travel; etc. And since I removed the lower control arm when putting it back it will be so much easier to get to the bolts to tighten them once I have a load on the suspension. (when reinstalling your A-arms/control arms you should leave the bolts that run through the bushings loose until you place a load on the front suspension and then tighten everything up) Hard to do on a car that has been lowered !! You can drive the front up on ramps but then you still won't have the frontend suspension loaded up exactly as it will be with wheels sitting on the ground. With the wheels out of the way I can take some measurements for future references. If all goes well I will be using springs with 1 coil removed along with the 1" drop ball joints. And then as mentioned at the beginning of this thread I can hopefully in the future use at least one of them at car shows, remove one of the front wheels, bolt the stand on and show off the suspension work.
[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-08-2004).]
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05:23 AM
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
If thats what your going to use them for, then I suggest you widen the pads on the stands, if the car gets bumped, even lightly the stand will rotate and the car will fall. 5" pads are alittle small for the safety factor.
Ehh.. suspending the rear end was my guess too. Maybe we had to be more specific, perhaps if you use these, with a jack on the center rear of the cradle, u can lower the car til the control arms are level, then torque the bolts down that goes through the control arms so to set the poly bushings in the right spot...
These will work for the rear as well , bolt them on in place of the wheels, lower the car placing the weight of the car on them and your rear suspension will be loaded up and sitting in the exact position it would be at with the wheels on. Now you have plenty of room to work when tightening everything up and you can make a visual check on how everything is setting. (This is in reference to one installing new bushings or reinstalling rear control arms, etc May also assist in adjusting the height on my rear coilovers . Hard to get them exactly even in ride height when you have to keep raising and lowering the car to adjust and recheck them.
If thats what your going to use them for, then I suggest you widen the pads on the stands, if the car gets bumped, even lightly the stand will rotate and the car will fall. 5" pads are alittle small for the safety factor.
[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-08-2004).]
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05:52 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
You'd be better off using those with 1" bases rather than a stock fiero jack. PLEASE tell me you've never gotten under a car using a spare tire jack. I wont even use one to change a spare, last time I tried, it ripped all the threads off the shaft, and the car fell 1/2" from my leg, fortunatle the only casualties were the jack and my ground FX. Those things are pure crap. go out and but a $20 jack, or at least some jackstands. PLEASE
You'd be better off using those with 1" bases rather than a stock fiero jack. PLEASE tell me you've never gotten under a car using a spare tire jack. I wont even use one to change a spare, last time I tried, it ripped all the threads off the shaft, and the car fell 1/2" from my leg, fortunatle the only casualties were the jack and my ground FX. Those things are pure crap. go out and but a $20 jack, or at least some jackstands. PLEASE
[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-08-2004).]
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12:24 PM
Dec 9th, 2004
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Maybe you can modify them in such a way that they lock the hub in place when bolted up to prevent them from being able to rotate and fall over. How about a bracket that wraps around to the brake caliper on the back side so you can bolt it up to the caliper to stop it from rotating? -Steven
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12:23 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
This is an interesting way to get everything loaded up and tighten it down. I would suggest larger pads too, but last time I was taking my car down off jack stands I noticed that at one point one jackstand didn't have any weight on it whatsoever. In other words the car was supported on three sides and didn't show any signs of wanting to fall. Very freaky.
So will a one inch drop spring and a one inch lowering ball joint drop the car two inches? I believe so.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-09-2004).]
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12:32 AM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
I gave it a bit more thought and it doesn't seem to me that the one-post setup is a very good idea. No matter how big the base is, the welds at the bottom and top of that single post are going to be what gets stressed hard. Notice that all jackstands have at least three legs? If the stand is trying to rotate, the force is not trying to crease a joint, it just pushes one of the legs harder onto the supporting surface. I imagine if these were hooked up even if the hub was locked in place, by pushing the car the post would simply shear off of the base plate.
[edit to add picture]
Starting from the left, the single post and center of the base plate bear the load. The middle image shows what would start to happen if the car was pushed or the top began to rotate. The load is transferred to the side of the base in the direction the car is getting pushed. The post-to-base joint must then bear this load and is at a huge mechanical disadvantage because its like a lever. Think of it like a pair of scissors. Right near the joint you could easily cut some thick cardboard because of the mechanical advantage. So instead of the stand balancing on end or falling over or not moving because of the wide base, that joint is just going to snap.
-Steven
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[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 12-09-2004).]
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12:38 AM
sewing_guy Member
Posts: 27 From: Taylorville, IL USA Registered: Sep 2004
I've had my 84 balanced on three jackstands before as I was settling things in. They're in such equal weight distribution, that when the floor jack (heavy, shop jack) is in the center raising one end of the car, it can pull up quite a bit. I'd never work on the car or expect it to be safe that way, but it is cool seeing it up and balanced so well. Sort of like Baja racers (rear engined beetles and sand rails) when they get a flat front. Put a larger back tire opposite front corner, and the weight rocks back onto the three good tires and you can get back to the pits. Probably not in a winning place, though.
I've had my 84 balanced on three jackstands before as I was settling things in. They're in such equal weight distribution, that when the floor jack (heavy, shop jack) is in the center raising one end of the car, it can pull up quite a bit. I'd never work on the car or expect it to be safe that way, but it is cool seeing it up and balanced so well. Sort of like Baja racers (rear engined beetles and sand rails) when they get a flat front. Put a larger back tire opposite front corner, and the weight rocks back onto the three good tires and you can get back to the pits. Probably not in a winning place, though.
Exactly, while safety is a concern this thread is not about the safety of the stands. I can assure you I have a lot of experience with this kind of thing and put alot of thought into them. They will not break or roll as suggested in the pics and post above. Nor will they break as suggested. They are very well made. The ring is 5/8" thick stainless, the support is a 1" solid square SS bar, and the pad is 3/8" SS all HELI-ARC welded. (Actually overkill) With the car sitting at its normal ride height there is very little weight that will be placed on one stand. It is different if you are lifting one side higher than another or jacking the car way up beyound its normal ride height. As was mentioned at ride height with the car level it will sit pretty much balanced on just 3 wheels. I appreciate all the concern but I am very comfortable they will work just fine. The car will be sitting at its normal height with these on so I could not get under the car even if I wanted to this is not what they are for. I made these strickly so that once I have the ball joints back in I can place the car on the stands and will able to visually see what happens with everything once the suspension is loaded up and the car is sitting at the height it is going to be normally at.
I made these primarily just as a tool that would allow me to see how everything lines up after installing the 1" drop ball joints, if there are any problems I may see ...maybe with the swaybar endlinks or bumpstops ; etc. Then post this info with pics for those who may want to do this mode themselves.
Now lets please just move on and keep the post on the subject of the ball joint install and set up I hope to have finished this weekend.... Almost half the posts have been over the safety of the stands themselves.
[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-09-2004).]
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06:32 AM
m0sh_man Member
Posts: 8460 From: south charleston WV 25309 Registered: Feb 2002
good luck with the bumpstops, ONLY cut 1/2 of the coil on the front suspension, i cut a whole coil one time on my 87GT, it dropped the front end 1.75", looked sweet as hell, but my suspension bottomed out everytime i hit a bump, if the bumpstops were removed, or shortened it would be fine, but cutting one coil and adding 1" drop joints, might take you down too low.
good luck with the bumpstops, ONLY cut 1/2 of the coil on the front suspension, i cut a whole coil one time on my 87GT, it dropped the front end 1.75", looked sweet as hell, but my suspension bottomed out everytime i hit a bump, if the bumpstops were removed, or shortened it would be fine, but cutting one coil and adding 1" drop joints, might take you down too low.
just a suggestion.
matthew
Thanks man, I already had the cut springs on it and I still had about an 1 1/2" gap between tire and fender lip. I took these springs off of a 4cy 88. I had cut my bumpstops 3/4" at the time I cut the springs. I still have the original Formula springs so if it is to low I will put them back in. (In fact just had them bead blasted yesterday so I can paint them and have them ready just in case) I am thinking the way the cut springs and the way the drop ball joint is designed that I may not have to cut the bumpstop anymore. From what I understand, with just the 1" drop install and the stock springs you shouldn't lose or change the travel. So you wouldn't have to cut the bumpstops at all if you use the drop ball joints with stock springs. But you may need to add an inch to the sway bar endlinks. But we will find out and hopefully be able to answer all these questions soon....that is the primarly reason for the stands !!!
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11:40 AM
Dec 11th, 2004
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
I see people's concerns, but the stands don't necessarily have to lock the front wheel to withstand much fore-aft stress. I am, of course, assuming you will be setting the parking brake and chocking the rear wheels to keep the car from rolling - just like you do ANY time you jack up a car.
I see people's concerns, but the stands don't necessarily have to lock the front wheel to withstand much fore-aft stress. I am, of course, assuming you will be setting the parking brake and chocking the rear wheels to keep the car from rolling - just like you do ANY time you jack up a car.
You can see them in use on this thread ... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/058096.html Looks can be decieving . I went through the trouble of giving them a little test when I had them in use on the car. Since the frame of the car is now only 4" off the ground I was able to just slip some 4 X 4's under the frame which left about a 1/2" gap. I then removed the rear wheel chocks and put it in neutral and gave it several shoves, bumps and even rocked it ...... it stayed firm. I am sure though if I really wanted to and put out a little more effort I could roll it off the stands. But the key word here is effort. It was not just going to roll off the stands with an accidental bump or by you pulling on a wrench, etc . I even side loaded one of the stands jacking up one side of the car almost 2 feet so it was actually sitting on the edge of one of the pads. It did not bend the pad or the bar.
I like the idea, are you setting your camber with them? How do you know they are level? What I am getting at is how do you level them out when you let the car down on them. The bottom of the stand will want to slide out as you put weight on it. I like the idea, I was going to cut up some steel rims and do something similar.
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11:45 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
The stands look nice. Proper welds should hold just fine with all that SS.
If you plan to use those stands on dirt or blacktop, I think I'd still recomend a bigger foot. Blacktop can be come quite unstable when it gets hot.
Just for safety... When working I think I'd throw the wood under it like you did to test just as a backup in case something ever does make it drop. Better to fall on the wood than you. They sound plenty strong and stable enough but unexpected things happen.
Just for reference.
Tightening the thru bolts with a load on the suspension realy only applies to OE type rubber bushings. You don't need to worry about that with polyurethane or enthing else that isn't bonded to the metal like OE rubber.
------------------ The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the year...
Great idea! Wonderful workmanship! You might want to be careful though, especially if your using these on the side of mountain covered with ice while in a thunder storm. Just kidding! Good work! let us know how the project works out.
I like the idea, are you setting your camber with them? How do you know they are level? What I am getting at is how do you level them out when you let the car down on them. The bottom of the stand will want to slide out as you put weight on it. I like the idea, I was going to cut up some steel rims and do something similar.
No not setting camber, they are the exact height as my wheels are. I made them as a tool to just visually check out the front suspension setup with the suspension loaded and sitting at ride heght. I wanted to make sure everything was ok after I did the Rodney 1" ball joint. They also let me take pics of the suspension without the wheel in the way. They do not slide out when you put weight on them.
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
They are for dipping into soapy water and blowing lots of pretty bubbles.....right?
BIG bubbles !!!
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
The stands look nice. Proper welds should hold just fine with all that SS.
If you plan to use those stands on dirt or blacktop, I think I'd still recomend a bigger foot. Blacktop can be come quite unstable when it gets hot.
Just for safety... When working I think I'd throw the wood under it like you did to test just as a backup in case something ever does make it drop. Better to fall on the wood than you. They sound plenty strong and stable enough but unexpected things happen.
Just for reference.
Tightening the thru bolts with a load on the suspension realy only applies to OE type rubber bushings. You don't need to worry about that with polyurethane or enthing else that isn't bonded to the metal like OE rubber.
Thanks Orge, when I'm working on the car it is on concrete. But I would like to sometime in the future use at least one at car shows. I am going to cut a round 12" OD piece of 3/8" SS that I can place down to then set the stand on when used on unstable ground.
I do have rubber bushings on both the upper and lower Front CA .... everything else is poly though !! Did have Poly CA bushings but didn't care for them on the front. I was reading your site one day and you also suggested using the rubber ones On the Front CA .
quote
Originally posted by Cadillac Jack:
Great idea! Wonderful workmanship! You might want to be careful though, especially if your using these on the side of mountain covered with ice while in a thunder storm. Just kidding! Good work! let us know how the project works out.
Yes , that is one way they are used and hopefully will be used in the future.
