No cutting or denting of sheet metal is required. Belt drivien off Archie balancer. If the "pump" ever wears out, it is an unmodified stock GM part (the SBC housing is highly modified - but it is just a housing now).
Russ and I developed this. Hope you like!
IP: Logged
04:03 PM
PFF
System Bot
newfierokid Member
Posts: 278 From: largo,FL, USA Registered: Feb 2004
Belt removal - There is only 1/8" clearance from the harmonic balancer to the frame, so if the belt needs replaced the water pump will have to be removed so the back of the cradle can be rocked back far enough for the belt to clear between the frame and the balancer.
However, there is a 1/2" spacer at the upper section, remove this and the belt slides past the pump without issue (the upper bolt is also the bleeder or air purge location too). If the frame has already been notched for belt clearance the water pump poses no aditional headache to belt replacement.
IP: Logged
05:58 PM
jron Member
Posts: 298 From: South Lyon, Michigan USA Registered: Dec 2001
The actual pump is a stock 3.4 TDC unit that costs $29 at autozone. It is reverse rotation unit with a cast iron impeller and was as close to the right general shape to mate up with the SBC housing from the several we considered. The SBC housing does require machining on the inside due to the SBC impeller being beveled and the 3.4's being flat and to make the entire package as compact as possible. There is an adapter plate because the bolt patterns between the 3.4 and the SBC are not the same and the depth of the 3.4 unit requires a spacer - but it can't be too thick! or there will be pulley issues
The pulley is just a basic pulley from Rural King bored and drilled to work on the 3.4 flange.
The two offset housings are difficult and complicated. The pump is shimmed 1 3/4" from the block and the pulley clears the timing cover by about 1/32" The pump is also rotated and shifted to the front to clear the bulge in the wheel well - but only by about 3/16" (or less) on an 88. The pulley interfers with the front offset housing and with the top bolt hole in the block - so the front housing is kinda wierd shaped and conforms to clear the pulley and the Archie alternator bracket (also slightly modified) but the clearances between them are very, very tight.
The offset housings are attached to the engine outside of the car - they clear the frame rail (and part of the reason there is a 1/2" spacer at the top of the rear one). The pump is then bolted to them in the car.
The good thing about this, all the hard work and time goes into the pieces that will never wear out - the pump and all the wear components (seal & bushing) are in the 3.4 piece and can be swapped out for $29.
When ever people see my car, most can't believe the SBC actually fits... I used to tell them, yeah - and without cutting sheet metal and 1/8" clearance in 4 spots... now the 4 spots have multiplied like rabits!
Russ and I have had many, many conversations about the SBC waterpump options. He had expererimented with the offset housings a while back and showed them to me. I went home to work on my mock up engine and was playing with the standard waterpump and experimented with the position of the pump and thinking about the housings. Then I realized the offset housings created vital space where it could be used for a belt drive. I found some potential waterpump candidates and went show Russ. He had the 3.4 pump and we started to look it over real close... It seemed like everything would work. Russ did all the machine work to mate the two. Then with the pump in hand I fabbed up the offset housings... twice. But the second time I pulled the electric pump so I could test fit the new housings.
Russ and I have been discussing ways to make this easier for the next one and we think we have that figured out too.
IP: Logged
10:30 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
When ever people see my car, most can't believe the SBC actually fits... I used to tell them, yeah - and without cutting sheet metal and 1/8" clearance in 4 spots... now the 4 spots have multiplied like rabits!
I have no water pump bolted to the front of my sbc, as my pump is mounted on the side of the engine. When people realise there is no visable pump I tell them "ya.... there's no room for a pump so I had to convert it to air cooled". The double takes are priceless
IP: Logged
11:46 PM
PFF
System Bot
Sep 9th, 2004
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12331 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
So... are you guys considering making this adaptor setup available to others? I've been holding off on buying a CSI remote pump until the funds are available, but this could be another excellent option!
We have talked about offering the completed units (adapter only does no good cause the 3.4 pump will not fit in a SBC pump - even with the adapter - without machine work to the inside of the SBC pump), but nothing has been finalized.
The filler neck: Morosso Filler Neck - part # 63420, price $52.95 at Summit Racing
IP: Logged
03:38 PM
LS1swap Member
Posts: 1181 From: McHenry,IL.USA Registered: Jan 2001
Took the car to FieroRama - it was the dirtiest one there!
Just under 3 hrs of solid 80 MPH running and up to 95 in the chicagoland area there and back. Temp gauge never went past the mid point line between 100 and 260 and I am not running a 4 core radiator (stock V6 thichkness brass with 50% more coolling fins). I think this pump works great!
Took the car to FieroRama - it was the dirtiest one there!
Just under 3 hrs of solid 80 MPH running and up to 95 in the chicagoland area there and back. Temp gauge never went past the mid point line between 100 and 260 and I am not running a 4 core radiator (stock V6 thichkness brass with 50% more coolling fins). I think this pump works great!
Aw Crap! And I was there and didn't even think to look for it!!!
IP: Logged
10:35 AM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13606 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
Took the car to FieroRama - it was the dirtiest one there!
Just under 3 hrs of solid 80 MPH running and up to 95 in the chicagoland area there and back. Temp gauge never went past the mid point line between 100 and 260 and I am not running a 4 core radiator (stock V6 thichkness brass with 50% more coolling fins). I think this pump works great!
hay, i needed to tell you that i think i saw a crack in your steering rack and Ling was dirtier than yours. i still had bugs stuck to my attenna
IP: Logged
06:34 PM
Sep 14th, 2004
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12331 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Been driving the car daily and took it up to the Dells over the weekend... pushed 80 to 90 the whole way without issue.
I will be tearing the car back down in a month to add TBI and AC. While out, I will make some drawings of the offset housings and get a machine shop quote for them to check the prices to see what it would costs to make more of these.
IP: Logged
12:24 PM
PFF
System Bot
mrfixit58 Member
Posts: 3330 From: Seffner, Fl, USA Registered: Jul 99
I will be tearing the car back down in a month to add TBI and AC. While out, I will make some drawings of the offset housings and get a machine shop quote for them to check the prices to see what it would costs to make more of these.
Yes, grade 8 3/8" bolts, 1x1 square tube (keep the lower section of the engine from rocking front to rear), poly front sway bar end links and some 3/16" angle welded to the cradle and the front archie mount. I probably have less than $15 in this mount setup and it works great.
Originally posted by fieroguru: I will be tearing the car back down in a month to add TBI and AC. While out, I will make some drawings of the offset housings and get a machine shop quote for them to check the prices to see what it would costs to make more of these.
Bump
IP: Logged
07:08 AM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12331 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
I am still driving the car, but it should get torn down over the holidays.
That’s cool I have a real nice electric pump but would like to go back to a belt drive. I will not be ready for a pump solution till around February and I can use the electric pump, just wanted you to know there is an interest.
IP: Logged
09:34 PM
Feb 12th, 2005
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
and a plus to go along with it.
