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NEW SBC water pump option by fieroguru
Started on: 09-06-2004 04:03 PM
Replies: 30
Last post by: Formula88 on 02-12-2005 12:20 PM
fieroguru
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Report this Post09-06-2004 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
No cutting or denting of sheet metal is required.
Belt drivien off Archie balancer.
If the "pump" ever wears out, it is an unmodified stock GM part (the SBC housing is highly modified - but it is just a housing now).

Russ and I developed this. Hope you like!




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newfierokid
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Report this Post09-06-2004 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfierokidSend a Private Message to newfierokidDirect Link to This Post
how did u do that
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Russ544
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Report this Post09-06-2004 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Russ544Send a Private Message to Russ544Direct Link to This Post
Very creative. Nice work!

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MaxCubes
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Report this Post09-06-2004 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesDirect Link to This Post
Good idea! From what kind of car is the inner pump from?
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LT188GT
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Report this Post09-06-2004 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LT188GTSend a Private Message to LT188GTDirect Link to This Post
You have to pull the pump to change the belt??? Or am I looking at it wrong??
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fieroguru
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Report this Post09-06-2004 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
More will be shared about the details later...

Belt removal - There is only 1/8" clearance from the harmonic balancer to the frame, so if the belt needs replaced the water pump will have to be removed so the back of the cradle can be rocked back far enough for the belt to clear between the frame and the balancer.

However, there is a 1/2" spacer at the upper section, remove this and the belt slides past the pump without issue (the upper bolt is also the bleeder or air purge location too). If the frame has already been notched for belt clearance the water pump poses no aditional headache to belt replacement.

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jron
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Report this Post09-06-2004 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jronSend a Private Message to jronDirect Link to This Post
Great idea, it's nice to see things made differant,better,modifyed, always improved. Thats what its all about.

Jim

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avengador1
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Report this Post09-06-2004 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Direct Link to This Post
Very clever solution. Thumbs up for you. and a plus to go along with it.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 09-06-2004).]

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v8fiero400
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Report this Post09-06-2004 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for v8fiero400Click Here to visit v8fiero400's HomePageSend a Private Message to v8fiero400Direct Link to This Post
Yea, lots of pictures. interesting setup. another positive for you.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post09-06-2004 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
The actual pump is a stock 3.4 TDC unit that costs $29 at autozone. It is reverse rotation unit with a cast iron impeller and was as close to the right general shape to mate up with the SBC housing from the several we considered. The SBC housing does require machining on the inside due to the SBC impeller being beveled and the 3.4's being flat and to make the entire package as compact as possible. There is an adapter plate because the bolt patterns between the 3.4 and the SBC are not the same and the depth of the 3.4 unit requires a spacer - but it can't be too thick! or there will be pulley issues

The pulley is just a basic pulley from Rural King bored and drilled to work on the 3.4 flange.

The two offset housings are difficult and complicated. The pump is shimmed 1 3/4" from the block and the pulley clears the timing cover by about 1/32" The pump is also rotated and shifted to the front to clear the bulge in the wheel well - but only by about 3/16" (or less) on an 88. The pulley interfers with the front offset housing and with the top bolt hole in the block - so the front housing is kinda wierd shaped and conforms to clear the pulley and the Archie alternator bracket (also slightly modified) but the clearances between them are very, very tight.

The offset housings are attached to the engine outside of the car - they clear the frame rail (and part of the reason there is a 1/2" spacer at the top of the rear one). The pump is then bolted to them in the car.

The good thing about this, all the hard work and time goes into the pieces that will never wear out - the pump and all the wear components (seal & bushing) are in the 3.4 piece and can be swapped out for $29.

When ever people see my car, most can't believe the SBC actually fits... I used to tell them, yeah - and without cutting sheet metal and 1/8" clearance in 4 spots... now the 4 spots have multiplied like rabits!

Russ and I have had many, many conversations about the SBC waterpump options. He had expererimented with the offset housings a while back and showed them to me. I went home to work on my mock up engine and was playing with the standard waterpump and experimented with the position of the pump and thinking about the housings. Then I realized the offset housings created vital space where it could be used for a belt drive. I found some potential waterpump candidates and went show Russ. He had the 3.4 pump and we started to look it over real close... It seemed like everything would work. Russ did all the machine work to mate the two. Then with the pump in hand I fabbed up the offset housings... twice. But the second time I pulled the electric pump so I could test fit the new housings.

Russ and I have been discussing ways to make this easier for the next one and we think we have that figured out too.

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Russ544
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Report this Post09-06-2004 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Russ544Send a Private Message to Russ544Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

When ever people see my car, most can't believe the SBC actually fits... I used to tell them, yeah - and without cutting sheet metal and 1/8" clearance in 4 spots... now the 4 spots have multiplied like rabits!


I have no water pump bolted to the front of my sbc, as my pump is mounted on the side of the engine. When people realise there is no visable pump I tell them "ya.... there's no room for a pump so I had to convert it to air cooled". The double takes are priceless

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fieroguru
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Report this Post09-09-2004 08:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
Bump.
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MinnGreenGT
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Report this Post09-09-2004 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
So... are you guys considering making this adaptor setup available to others? I've been holding off on buying a CSI remote pump until the funds are available, but this could be another excellent option!

------------------

Looking for Fiero posters?

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Tim K
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Report this Post09-09-2004 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tim KSend a Private Message to Tim KDirect Link to This Post
What kind of radiator hose outlet (gooseneck) do you have on the intake manifold ? Looks like there is a fill cap on it.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post09-09-2004 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
We have talked about offering the completed units (adapter only does no good cause the 3.4 pump will not fit in a SBC pump - even with the adapter - without machine work to the inside of the SBC pump), but nothing has been finalized.

The filler neck:
Morosso Filler Neck - part # 63420, price $52.95 at Summit Racing

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LS1swap
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Report this Post09-09-2004 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LS1swapClick Here to visit LS1swap's HomePageSend a Private Message to LS1swapDirect Link to This Post
good work.......... Amazing what a fresh eye on an old problem can come up with. I like the polly mounts too

------------------
LS1 v8 T-Top 87 GT

http://www.acxunlimited.com/ls1swap.htm

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fieroguru
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Report this Post09-13-2004 09:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
Took the car to FieroRama - it was the dirtiest one there!

Just under 3 hrs of solid 80 MPH running and up to 95 in the chicagoland area there and back. Temp gauge never went past the mid point line between 100 and 260 and I am not running a 4 core radiator (stock V6 thichkness brass with 50% more coolling fins). I think this pump works great!

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MinnGreenGT
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Report this Post09-13-2004 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Took the car to FieroRama - it was the dirtiest one there!

Just under 3 hrs of solid 80 MPH running and up to 95 in the chicagoland area there and back. Temp gauge never went past the mid point line between 100 and 260 and I am not running a 4 core radiator (stock V6 thichkness brass with 50% more coolling fins). I think this pump works great!

Aw Crap! And I was there and didn't even think to look for it!!!

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buddycraigg
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Report this Post09-13-2004 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Took the car to FieroRama - it was the dirtiest one there!

Just under 3 hrs of solid 80 MPH running and up to 95 in the chicagoland area there and back. Temp gauge never went past the mid point line between 100 and 260 and I am not running a 4 core radiator (stock V6 thichkness brass with 50% more coolling fins). I think this pump works great!

hay, i needed to tell you that i think i saw a crack in your steering rack
and Ling was dirtier than yours. i still had bugs stuck to my attenna

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fieroguru
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Report this Post09-14-2004 08:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
I checked the rack and didn't find any cracks... where on the rack did you see one?

Thanks.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post10-05-2004 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
Bump,

Been driving the car daily and took it up to the Dells over the weekend... pushed 80 to 90 the whole way without issue.

I will be tearing the car back down in a month to add TBI and AC. While out, I will make some drawings of the offset housings and get a machine shop quote for them to check the prices to see what it would costs to make more of these.

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Report this Post10-05-2004 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfixit58Send a Private Message to mrfixit58Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I will be tearing the car back down in a month to add TBI and AC. While out, I will make some drawings of the offset housings and get a machine shop quote for them to check the prices to see what it would costs to make more of these.

If you have CAD drawings, you may want to try www.machineshop.com .

------------------
Roy

double-click on this link to follow my interior build-up https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/023174.html

Blue 87 GT w/ 4th generation Firebird interior.
Suncoast Fieros

Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 20th Anniversary Show @ Pontiac, Mich - 7/2003
Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 8th Annual Fiero Fun Weekend @ Daytona - 3/2004

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p8ntman442
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Report this Post10-05-2004 03:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for p8ntman442Click Here to visit p8ntman442's HomePageSend a Private Message to p8ntman442Direct Link to This Post
maybee http://www.emachineshop.com/

i think you forgot one letter in the url.

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post11-05-2004 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
Bump so I can save it to my favorites
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Kohburn
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Report this Post11-05-2004 07:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
i love your frton engine mount.. long bolts and sway end link bushings right? very good isolation mount setup
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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-05-2004 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
Yes, grade 8 3/8" bolts, 1x1 square tube (keep the lower section of the engine from rocking front to rear), poly front sway bar end links and some 3/16" angle welded to the cradle and the front archie mount. I probably have less than $15 in this mount setup and it works great.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post11-16-2004 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
Bump
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post12-20-2004 07:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
I will be tearing the car back down in a month to add TBI and AC. While out, I will make some drawings of the offset housings and get a machine shop quote for them to check the prices to see what it would costs to make more of these.

Bump

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-20-2004 07:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, I know....

I am still driving the car, but it should get torn down over the holidays.

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post12-21-2004 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Yeah, I know....

I am still driving the car, but it should get torn down over the holidays.

That’s cool I have a real nice electric pump but would like to go back to a belt drive.
I will not be ready for a pump solution till around February and I can use the electric pump, just wanted you to know there is an interest.

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Formula88
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Report this Post02-12-2005 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
What an ingenius pump setup!! Good work!
That's definitely a product that needs to be produced for V8 swappers.
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