Ok, First a little info. I purchased the 1" drop lowering ball joints from Rodney Dickman http://www.rodneydickman.com/
(he has them for all years)
Some notes of interest: I believe Rodney had in mind when he had these made that they would be used with the original springs.
I already had on the car some springs off of a 88 4 cyl car that I had cut 1 coil from. I decided to see how they would work along with the 1" drop ball joints. I installed these on my 88 Formula.

Here are some comparison pics of the stock ball joint installed in the LCA and the new 1" drop ball joint installed in an LCA.

Rodney includes instruction with these ball joints and recommends they be welded in

LCA repainted and ready to reinstall.

LCA being reinstalled.

Everything back together with the car on the stands I made...and no they did not break, fall or bend on me as some had suggested. In fact they are very steady and worked out great. If you do not know what I am talking about here is the post.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/058029.html

The stands are the same height as the wheels and let me load up the suspension and check everything out.

Notice now the frame of the car where indicated in the pic below sits exactly 4" off the ground now !!

Now we can take a good look at everything and see how it all lines up, make sure nothing is binding or rubbing , check our bumpstops and endlinks etc;

I was very pleased with how everything looked . I am not going to have to do anything. (I do believe if you use your stock springs you will have to maybe extend your sway bar endlinks by 1")

Ok here is a look with the wheels on.

Thank you for the write up, It is well appreciated
Do you have any pictures of the whole car after you lower it ? and
What did you do about the rear suspension ?

quote Originally posted by 85LAMB: Thank you for the write up, It is well appreciated Do you have any pictures of the whole car after you lower it ? and What did you do about the rear suspension ?

Yep, Not a good one since I am working on it. I have the side skirts and fenders off the car while doing the fender vents Mod just
set the fender on for the pics and to check the clearances.

The car has coilovers on the rear with 350# springs, I am going to take a look at that tomorrow and see if I might want to lower the rear any.
My wheels are Konig Imagines 17 X 7, offset is 40 , Frt tires are 215/45 - 17 and rear tires are 235/45 - 17 they are Yokohama AVS ES100

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-10-2004).]

I like the setup on your car and love your rims, I have replaced every thing on the car with new including the ball joints but after reading your post I might have to give Rodney a call and order a set.Good work Zoom + for you.
Bob

quote Originally posted by flyingbob: I like the setup on your car and love your rims, I have replaced every thing on the car with new including the ball joints but after reading your post I might have to give Rodney a call and order a set.Good work Zoom + for you. Bob

Thank You Bob, it was worth having to pull the LCA again even after just getting it back together !!

excellent write up, I will be looking at this carefully as I am about to install drop springs and lowering ball joints. I like the way it looks already.

Very nice! If I'd known about those before I got my Eibach springs, I might have used them and kept the stock springs.
I don't like having to weld in the LBJ, but you have to do that on some aftermarket stock replacements anyway.

I'm using Rodney's OEM replacement ball joints, with the snap ring. They are very high quality. I'm sure his lowering ball joints are the same.

Once again another good write up with nice detailed pictures. Will place this one in the saved file along side your other write ups. Keep up the good work and keep it coming.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Very nice! If I'd known about those before I got my Eibach springs, I might have used them and kept the stock springs. I don't like having to weld in the LBJ, but you have to do that on some aftermarket stock replacements anyway. I'm using Rodney's OEM replacement ball joints, with the snap ring. They are very high quality. I'm sure his lowering ball joints are the same.

I can understand having concerns about welding them. I have a spare set of LCA's so I didn't give it a second thought. But even so, it would be a little more trouble but you could grind the welds out with a die grinder and the right bit pretty easy. Also if greased well they should give you many miles of service. I know I don't put that many miles on my car anymore so I don't expect to have to change them for a long long time !! I had Rodneys OEM replacement Ball joints also, in fact they are only a few months old with probably 2-300 miles on them. The new drop ball joints are exactly the same quality but taller of course, they have the snap ring also. But I am sure he recommends welding these just to be on the safe side. Being extended there may be some increased force being placed on the ball joint at the LCA in the splined area.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Once again another good write up with nice detailed pictures. Will place this one in the saved file along side your other write ups. Keep up the good work and keep it coming.

Thanks man, hows it been going ?

I would just like to mention some thanks to everyone for the compliments.
But I sincerly hope no one things I post this stuff just for the compliments.
While they are of course appreciated it is definatly not the reason I post these writeups.
I am fortunate enough to be able to try some of these things so I feel the least I can do is pass on the info. !!!

Cliff is one who needs to get some thanks , with out this forum I wouldn't be trying or finding out about some of the things I have done to my car.
I have been able to get advice from many members that have helped me out for sure !!! And several ideas from others projects, such as Skitime for the vents and antenae mods, rockcrawl for the hood vents, Sage for the side vents, Rodney for excellent parts, Fiero store and many many others. Its the combination of everyones input that makes this forum so great !!
However, it is nice to hear some kind of responses one way or the other just so I know my posts are not just wasting Cliff's server space!!

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-11-2004).]

Zoom88
Thank you for the pictures, + for you for being helpfull.

Thanks for taking the time to post pics. It's always appreciated.
The car looks good. Probably a bit too low to be practical for me, but that's just me.

As one who did the "cut one coil" trick, it looks like Rodney's replacement ball joint will provide nearly the same results.
Did the ball joints cause any camber or toe change?

quote Originally posted by 85LAMB: Zoom88 Thank you for the pictures, + for you for being helpfull.

Thank you, and Thank you !!!

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Thanks for taking the time to post pics. It's always appreciated. The car looks good. Probably a bit too low to be practical for me, but that's just me. As one who did the "cut one coil" trick, it looks like Rodney's replacement ball joint will provide nearly the same results. Did the ball joints cause any camber or toe change?

Thanks Raydar,
On the camber and toe question I can't tell by looking at it or the short drive I took. But as soon as I get the car back together I am going to take it to my buddy who does my alignments and see what he says !! Its actually weird looking at the Formula and not seeing the rear sitting higher than the front. The time I had the Eibachs on it the rear was still higher !!
I wanted to take a look at the rear today and see if I might want to lower it anymore...but wife had me putting up Christmas lights all day. Man what a waste of a good car day !!!

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-11-2004).]

So would you say it would be safe to use the Eibachs with the balljoints? I mean it wont make my car handle wierd or anything?

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Go here to see more of my Formula: " TARGET=_blank>http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/430754

That looks awesome! Looks like I was wrong about those stands breaking on you. They seem to have worked out really well! I'm looking forward to hearing what the alignment guy says about the setup. I might try these myself sometime.

-Steven

quote Originally posted by Fierokid87: So would you say it would be safe to use the Eibachs with the balljoints? I mean it wont make my car handle wierd or anything?

I can tell you that they will work with the Eibachs, but I can't tell how low your car will be afterwards or if you will have any clearance problems or not. You would have to take some measurements and determine if you have enough room to drop the car another 1".
I can only post how it worked out with the setup I have.

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: That looks awesome! Looks like I was wrong about those stands breaking on you. They seem to have worked out really well! I'm looking forward to hearing what the alignment guy says about the setup. I might try these myself sometime. -Steven

Thanks Steven,
Yes I am glad the stands worked out, helped me get some good pics and measurements.
Might be awhile on the alignment, I want to finish up the fenders and hopefully Christmas will be nice to me and I can
get the car some different side scoops from Sage. I want to get the side scoops and fenders painted and installed before I take it to get aligned.

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-11-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Zoom88: The time I had the Eibachs on it the rear was still higher !! I

I bought a pair of the Eibachs for my 88 and installed them,the back sits nice and low but the front is still rather high. I havent drove the car yet so maybe the springs will settle once I get it on the road(I hope they do). Do you by chance have a picture of your car with the Eibachs on them so I can compare the two. So far from what I have seen you do with your car, I might follow in your foot steps in the near future with a few of your write ups. Everything has been going good my way, picked up a 88 GT for a nice price that turned out to be better than what I expected. Maybe in the near future, I will make it back down that way and we can go on a nice road cruise. Also sent a Pm asking a question.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I bought a pair of the Eibachs for my 88 and installed them,the back sits nice and low but the front is still rather high. I havent drove the car yet so maybe the springs will settle once I get it on the road(I hope they do). Do you by chance have a picture of your car with the Eibachs on them so I can compare the two. So far from what I have seen you do with your car, I might follow in your foot steps in the near future with a few of your write ups. Everything has been going good my way, picked up a 88 GT for a nice price that turned out to be better than what I expected. Maybe in the near future, I will make it back down that way and we can go on a nice road cruise. Also sent a Pm asking a question.

Hey man how you doing...didn't have to work this weekend I hope !!
I am sure I have pics of the car with the Eibachs, but I'm not sure if I know which ones they are. I have tried several setups with the front suspension in the past . If I can fiqure it out I will Email you some pics. I'd like to see some pics of your new car , what color is it ?
It would be nice to take a cruise down to Biloxi...its not but about 2 1/2 hrs from my house. Its nice cruising along the beach at night.

quote Originally posted by Zoom88: Hey man how you doing...didn't have to work this weekend I hope !! I am sure I have pics of the car with the Eibachs, but I'm not sure if I know which ones they are. I have tried several setups with the front suspension in the past . If I can fiqure it out I will Email you some pics. I'd like to see some pics of your new car , what color is it ? It would be nice to take a cruise down to Biloxi...its not but about 2 1/2 hrs from my house. Its nice cruising along the beach at night.

Well--Once again I am working the weekend, its a never ending thing around here. If you can find the pictures than thats kool, if not then I will survive with out them. I been meaning to take pictures of the new 88 I got and post then in General Chat but have been busy of course with work and the Holidays. It is an 88 Gt 5 speed, black with nice Beechwood interior, it does have a few minor issues but I have already resolved some of them. Once the holidays are over and I get sometime off, I will give you a hollar and we can set up a cruise down your way, maybe find a few others to join in.

My Formula sits higher in front than in the rear with it's Eibachs. I think it's settled all it's going to settle. Rather than lower the front another inch, I'm going to put the OEM springs back on the rear. I think the rear sits too low. The front is just about right, IMO. I wasn't looking to slam it to the ground, just lower it a bit.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: My Formula sits higher in front than in the rear with it's Eibachs. I think it's settled all it's going to settle. Rather than lower the front another inch, I'm going to put the OEM springs back on the rear. I think the rear sits too low. The front is just about right, IMO. I wasn't looking to slam it to the ground, just lower it a bit.

Hey Formula, just for reference can you measure the wheel gap on frt and back with the Eibachs and post the measurements here or Email them to me?
While I am really happy with the height and ride of the setup I have ...... you are right, as long as your happy with your setup thats all that matters !!!

Also if anyone has a Formula with the stock spring setup, I would really appreciate it if you would take a measurement of the gap between the bumpstop and stop...like in the pic below. You can see it is 1 1/4"

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 12-12-2004).]

Zoom, is it posible to use these ball joints with 15 inch stock rims? Cuzz at the moment I can afford to get anything nicer. Im working on the performance side of the car before the looks.

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Go here to see more of my Formula: " TARGET=_blank>http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/430754

quote Originally posted by Fierokid87: Zoom, is it posible to use these ball joints with 15 inch stock rims? Cuzz at the moment I can afford to get anything nicer. Im working on the performance side of the car before the looks.

Yes, they are designed to be used with the stock setup.

Ok so I should have no problem using the ball joints with my springs on 15 inch wheels

quote Originally posted by Fierokid87: Ok so I should have no problem using the ball joints with my springs on 15 inch wheels

Thats correct.

Here is some more data one may find useful for comparision or reference.

Front from level ground to edge of fender well - 24 7/8"
Rear from level ground to edge of fender well - 25 3/4"

That looks NICE!!!
I may have to go with those lowering ball joints next time I swap them out.

if using the front lowering BJ's, with stock springs, what is the recommended way of lowering the rear

coilovers are an option, ground control $199, what others are available

is there a method similar to the front BJ, ie NOT springs

Is there anywhere to buy just rear lowering springs (1-1.5")

You can either use coilovers or drop springs to lower the rear of the car. If you use coilovers then you can adjust it to match the front to a tee. If you use drop springs then it drops it to a certain level and thats it. I would go with some coilovers, there is a thread floating around that show how to make coilovers for cheap.

quote Originally posted by fierojhu25: if using the front lowering BJ's, with stock springs, what is the recommended way of lowering the rear

If I was just going to use the Lowering BJs in the front, I would leave the rear alone. In stock form, the 88 sits a little higher in the front, anyway. But that's just me.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.
Read Nealz Nuze!

quote Originally posted by fierojhu25: if using the front lowering BJ's, with stock springs, what is the recommended way of lowering the rear coilovers are an option, ground control $199, what others are available is there a method similar to the front BJ, ie NOT springs Is there anywhere to buy just rear lowering springs (1-1.5")

I have coil overs on the rear, but I didn't just use the drop ball joints on the front I also removed 1 coil off the front springs.
With 17" rims.
Raydar has some good advice, if you just add the front lowering ball joints then the rear will most likely be ok on an 88.

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 02-03-2005).]

quote Originally posted by fierojhu25: Is there anywhere to buy just rear lowering springs (1-1.5")

I'm in the same boat with my 87' GT, The only place I have found that sells rear springs seperate is http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/makeId-100013 8/p-4817/c-10101/modelId-1001684

edit: I just noticed that the above springs are only for 84-87

These are suspension techniques with something like .8 inch drop. I would like to get Eibachs, but I have not found anyone willing to split up a set so I can just have the rear.

http://www.heldmotorsports.com/coilk.htm this is a conversion kit for $264 that would work.

anyone have any other ideas please pass them on as I will be doing this in the next month or so.

Dan

[This message has been edited by DanFiero (edited 02-03-2005).]

how did you know the ST springs on jcwhitney give .8" drop? It says:

"Lower front or rear of body 1" to 1-1/2" "

also if you know about the drop, do you know the approx. spring rate?

I know JCW is super-generic but sometime their "detailed descriptions" confuse me more

Let me ask this question - servicing these LBJ's. They are welded in, I guess you'll have to grind the weld bead off to replace them if they fail. My concern is that '88 LCA are not that abundant since they were only made for one year. LCA's, like front wheel bearings, are worth their weight in gold.

I'm sure you expressed the same concern before you put welder to metal.

quote Originally posted by James Bondo: Let me ask this question - servicing these LBJ's. They are welded in, I guess you'll have to grind the weld bead off to replace them if they fail. My concern is that '88 LCA are not that abundant since they were only made for one year. LCA's, like front wheel bearings, are worth their weight in gold. I'm sure you expressed the same concern before you put welder to metal.

If I was buying these I would feel the same way. The only point I would make is that these should certainly last 100,000 miles or so. What chance do most 88 Fieros today have of going that many miles again in their life? Most are no longer daily drivers anymore.

Given a die grinder and a few carbide cutters I'm sure one can gring the wellds out fairly cleanly if one takes the time needed to do a good job.

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PLEASE NOTE MY NEW ADDRESS

Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
(262) 835-9575

www.rodneydickman.com

That looks good. I think I am going to buy myself a set and bring mine down a little bit more.

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-Chris -
Custom Gun Metal 86 GT 4.9 V8 5spd

Build up tread or MODS w/ Pics

quote Originally posted by fierojhu25: how did you know the ST springs on jcwhitney give .8" drop? It says: "Lower front or rear of body 1" to 1-1/2" " also if you know about the drop, do you know the approx. spring rate? I know JCW is super-generic but sometime their "detailed descriptions" confuse me more

I've found these springs in many places on the web and the lowering amount changes depending on what web site you go to. I just rembered the last site I looked at said something about .8 inches. So my guess would be to expect around an inch or so with the ST springs if you average out all the claims Sorry, but no I don't know the spring rate on these.

Dan

as far as welding them in, if that is the method . . . then grinding them out and welding in a replacement set is not a problem. you could weld in a dozen sets and just keep welding in what was ground out the last time. no damage done.

Yeah, the weld is more of a tack weld for extra security than anything else. A couple of 3/16"-1/4" welds won't damage the arm and can easily be ground out at a later date.

JazzMan