I've got a spare computer that I am wanting to import to a fiero for song storage and fuel management, but maybe braking control system and suspension control system later, I've got a guy that's teamed up with me on it - still got more research to do on Ferrari's and Evo's ECU's.

Specs:
ASUS A7V400-MX motherboard
AMD 2800 +
1Gig RAM
2 WD 36.7GB 10,000RPM serial ATA (One for song storage and One for Car Management to avoid collisions and lag)
CHAINTECH Geforce FX5200 128MB Video Card
Antec 350 Watt PSU

I plan on running FreeBSD as the operating system. Its Unix instead of Windows because I don't want to wait 5 minutes for my computer to boot before I can start my car. My current FreeBSD box takes about 7 seconds. I'm a good C programer with a lot of friends that are too but I have no idea how to start the code and what to include, so if someone here has a ECU that they can program themselves from a floppy or something, please send me a copy vampeternal@knightscustomcomputers.com in a .doc or .txt format.

If anyone has any imput please post, flaming welcome.

Thanks

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This sig sucks

the only bad thing is the hard drives. they WILL fail. the vibration will make the heads hit the platter. I would say use flash memory for the software - OS, engine management & music jukebox, and a CD/DVD rom for music storage.

Flash memory will also boot MUCH faster.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I would say use flash memory for the software

Flash memory is reliable and non-volatile, but don't forget ... flash memory does have a limited number of write cycles. You might want to consider booting from flash memory and then running totally from RAM ... in which case ECC RAM would be an even better choice.

I have wanted to do this for years. I will keep a close watch on this thread. Good Luck!

Speaking as someone who is going to do something similar with his car, and has looked heavily into doing it in both a Fiero and a Mini Cooper... and also someone who writes code for a living, for Linux... you really don't want to do it that way. You want to generally avoid 10k rpm sata drives, for shoving a Fiero. You /will/ have problems, especially in a Fiero, where hitting bumps is something you definitely feel. I would recommend a slower, but much larger hard drive for storing music. 40GB really isn't that much. What head unit are you using? I plan on using one of the newer delco units that has support for controlling a cd changer or something. This way, it will look stock, and still have 200GB of music behind it.

I would also recommend a much smaller form factor, and other components less prone to creating a lot of heat. You're probably going to mount it behind the passenger seat. It gets hot enough back there already.
I've been waiting for the NanoITX form factor boards to come out. The embedded stuff from VIA is really
nice for doing things like this.

You definitely want to have a 1GB CF card with the OS install to boot off of though.

I would not recommend trying to run vital systems off of it though. Would suck to have the PC crash, and your brakes go wonky because of it. Just get the hardware designed for that sort of thing. Judging from your post, your goal isn't to set up a gaming pc, so I'd drop all the stuff that is geared toward gaming. 350W is a bit much for a system that's going in a car. I would suggest going for a Mini-ITX system or waiting for Nano-ITX hardware, and if you're going to hook up a display, use the on-board card.

Feel free to PM me though, if you have any more questions. We could probably share useful thoughts on the matter.

Check out gmpcm.com they have a system that controls the ECM, but it runs on windows. It may still be useful, at least for some ideas.

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'86 Fiero GT 4spd, 3400 mpfi, K&N filter, Cavalier seats, Celica GTS Rims, Mustang Scoop, Poly, Sway bars and 11.24" brakes in the process
'69 AMC Ambassador sst 2dr hardtop 390ci
'01 Yamaha YZ426F
'89 Acura Integra LS-winter beater

I'm doing a mini ITX system for audio. I've been working on it for quite a while. I'm using a 512 CF card with an IDE adaptor as my boot drive. For sotrage I'm using two laptop drives, which are slower, but more immune to shock. Given what I use it for (music and video) the 5400 RPM speed is plenty fast enough. I also have a 8" widescreen touchscreen LCD. The ITX can be run off a simple 60 watt p/s that attaches right to the power connector on the mobo, which runs off 12v, but it doesn't really have the juice to push a couple of h/d's and a cd/dvd drive. SO the alternative is to go with a small "e-machines" type compact power supply at about 200 watts. It can be tapped into to run off 12v with a little effort. Or pi9ck up a power supply from here: http://www.mp3car.com/store/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=b08187d0d63d80f0e8d3b5497fc442ec
They have a coupole of dc->dc power supplies.
All this stuff adds up to less heat and smaller form factor. I have to agree with the consensus about nbot using a pc for vital functions though. It's way risky all things considered.

Wow where to start!

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: the only bad thing is the hard drives. they WILL fail. the vibration will make the heads hit the platter. I would say use flash memory for the software - OS, engine management & music jukebox, and a CD/DVD rom for music storage.

The hard drives came off an old backup server of mine. I have considered the fact that the heads may have platter contact due to vibrations, and I haven't yet come up with a solution to that. However, I do agree that flash IS faster, but has a write and storage limitations. I have 23 gigs of music of this PC and almost double that on my Ferrari 3200 laptop , not exactly something you can stick on flash.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Speaking as someone who is going to do something similar with his car, and has looked heavily into doing it in both a Fiero and a Mini Cooper... and also someone who writes code for a living, for Linux... you really don't want to do it that way. You want to generally avoid 10k rpm sata drives, for shoving a Fiero. You /will/ have problems, especially in a Fiero, where hitting bumps is something you definitely feel. I would recommend a slower, but much larger hard drive for storing music. 40GB really isn't that much. What head unit are you using?

What linux distro you write for, or just scripts in general? I also have a 200GB WD HD its a 7200rpm. I don't think I have any 5400 rpm's..... i don't think I will.... ever. I currently have the stock head unit but my birthday is coming soon, that's when I'm getting the donor Fiero, but I've been *TOLD* that I'm getting the JVC KD-SHX750 - it has SD Memory.

quote Originally posted by dobey: I would also recommend a much smaller form factor, and other components less prone to creating a lot of heat. You're probably going to mount it behind the passenger seat. It gets hot enough back there already. I've been waiting for the NanoITX form factor boards to come out. The embedded stuff from VIA is really nice for doing things like this.

I've considered heat being a major problem; actually it was my first concern. The computer itself will be stored in the front of the car. For weight distribution and space issues. But I'm going to load the CPU, hard drives, chipset, all on a water cooled system. And put the radiator in front of the stock Fiero one *just like a mini intercooler lmao*. Just hope I don't spring a leak! =[! I've got a block of aluminum that I'm going to see if I can route water through and then attach that to the RAM.

quote Originally posted by dobey: You definitely want to have a 1GB CF card with the OS install to boot off of though. I would not recommend trying to run vital systems off of it though. Would suck to have the PC crash, and your brakes go wonky because of it. Just get the hardware designed for that sort of thing. Judging from your post, your goal isn't to set up a gaming pc, so I'd drop all the stuff that is geared toward gaming. 350W is a bit much for a system that's going in a car. I would suggest going for a Mini-ITX system or waiting for Nano-ITX hardware, and if you're going to hook up a display, use the on-board card.

The computer crashing is a MAJOR concern, I'll just have to keep a ghost copy or cd image handy. Actually it was parts from a backup server. The 350watt is for the two HD's but I don't think I'll be using both..... So I'll probably be able to drop down to a 200watt. And for the record, my gaming PC has a Antec 550, it had a 400 but killed it, 350 probably wouldn't even power my PC.
And as for the screen, a pull down 7" LCD that can pivot where the current cabin lights are. I'm going to replace those with LEDs, less power and brighter.

quote Originally posted by RockChip: Check out gmpcm.com they have a system that controls the ECM, but it runs on windows. It may still be useful, at least for some ideas.

I'm staying away from anything that has a heavy GUI. It takes away from system speed, I'll save you the speech about windows (I do use it on my gaming PC, can't wait for the new UT)

The system needs to be able to sense a change take a command and produce a result just as fast as the environment changes. For instance, I’m taking a corner at 40mph, the weight of the car shifts to the outside, the computer needs to read the change and add pressure to the struts on that side of the car as the change happens to eliminate roll. It should also return to 'normal' pressure per strut. Like a lot of euro cars have, I would like to have buttons on the dash, "Sport" "Race" "Highway” With a touch of a button a new script launches and suddenly you're driving a completely different car. Throttle response changes, brake sensitivity, car angle, car ride height, etc etc etc.

I KNEW a website that had a cheap air ride system for a Fiero... found it in a import magizine, so if you know one please post a link or PM me. I haven't recieved raw code of a ECU yet. It is an absolute must!

bump

I want to see this project develop.

Here's an idea I've had bumping around, but I have no idea how to make it work. Perhaps, this is what you're intending on doing.....

Have a computer as your ecu and an LCD as your dash display. Different windows can be set up as your gauges. One window for speed, one for tach, one for temp... etc.

This thread just made my favorites.

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: The system needs to be able to sense a change take a command and produce a result just as fast as the environment changes. For instance, I’m taking a corner at 40mph, the weight of the car shifts to the outside, the computer needs to read the change and add pressure to the struts on that side of the car as the change happens to eliminate roll. It should also return to 'normal' pressure per strut. Like a lot of euro cars have, I would like to have buttons on the dash, "Sport" "Race" "Highway” With a touch of a button a new script launches and suddenly you're driving a completely different car. Throttle response changes, brake sensitivity, car angle, car ride height, etc etc etc.

You might want to check out the older MX-6's for the shock adjustment. They all came with 3 different settings like you say and all you have to do it hit the button and the ride tension strengthed. there are so many of them around you probably can get the shock really cheap.

check out www.mx6.com and see if any of those guys has some to sell.

Nick

Have you considered a Solid State hard drive? http://www.m-systems.com/content/Products/product.asp?pid=34 Then you wouldn't have to worry about the bumps or vibrations. If you run with a gig of ram and no swap space you will probably never run out of writes for it either since you will mostly just be reading things with your planned setup.

-Randy

What are you going to use to read the inputs, are you going to use standard input cards that controls systems use or are you designing your own? Same question for the outputs, I would assume that you are going to try to find a 12V DC card. Most output and input cards are either 24V DC or 120 V AC. I have a background in Controls Engineering using Allen Bradley and Siemens. I haven’t come across any 12V cards yet, but I think they do exist. You should consider using a microcontroller or SLC to control the vehicle systems. They could handle the heat a vibrations much better that a PC, they also boot instantly because they are solid state. The PC could interface with the controller to monitor the system. They can be found used on eBay for a couple hundred. Don't take this the wrong way, I just throwing some ideas out there. I curious about how you are going to make this all work. Ken

quote Originally posted by Soelasca: bump I want to see this project develop. Here's an idea I've had bumping around, but I have no idea how to make it work. Perhaps, this is what you're intending on doing..... Have a computer as your ecu and an LCD as your dash display. Different windows can be set up as your gauges. One window for speed, one for tach, one for temp... etc. This thread just made my favorites.

That's a very good idea, I didn't think of having an LCD as the dash display!

quote Originally posted by Ken_86gt: What are you going to use to read the inputs, are you going to use standard input cards that controls systems use or are you designing your own? Same question for the outputs, I would assume that you are going to try to find a 12V DC card. Most output and input cards are either 24V DC or 120 V AC. I have a background in Controls Engineering using Allen Bradley and Siemens. I haven’t come across any 12V cards yet, but I think they do exist. You should consider using a microcontroller or SLC to control the vehicle systems. They could handle the heat a vibrations much better that a PC, they also boot instantly because they are solid state. The PC could interface with the controller to monitor the system. They can be found used on eBay for a couple hundred. Don't take this the wrong way, I just throwing some ideas out there. I curious about how you are going to make this all work. Ken

I have an appointment with an electronics circuit board engineer Monday before work. I haven't talked to him much about it but he seems to believe the bits between the computer and the fuel management, brakes and suspension can connect using controllers he can make with programmable firmware. He mentioned USB2 interface as well. If it’s USB that we actually end up using that would be great, I can program drivers for that easily.

Some would insist that Unix is infested with both daemons and demons

Having things controlled at 24V+ is actually a good thing - current is reduced!

Shouldn't be a huge deal to simply make small interface circuits between the 12 & 24V sections. More or less, just have the 12V switch on/off the higher V circuits. All the data feedback would be low (+5) voltage anyhow.

I would SERIOUSLY consider not having the braking areas touched by the ECM. Can you imagine the insurance and liability concerns if something went wrong (a computer crash? No! say it ain't so!) and the brakes went out or whatever....

I'd also look into doing it all in hardware modules, all tying into a common system (the car!) bus. The car becomes a giant USB hub (I'm generalizing!), and things simply get hooked into it. Want to add an MP3 system? Plug it in, and the car recognizes it and adds it. Or you manually add it in software... whatever....

Also, then you can take your MP3's with you (aka removable face plate for your deck). Would really suck if the car got stolen and everything went with it! Heck, for that matter... have the main engine control as a removable 'rack'. The ultimate in theft detterant! You leave the car and pull the main brains, leaving only the vehicle security system in it. Think of the killer customizable alarm module you could make and program! Down the road a new feature comes along, you just pull out the alarm module, modify/add/delete and plug it back in.

Ok - I'm done.

You are going to try and build on a standard PC that GM and others use multiple rugedized cpu units for?
Water cooling for the CPU?
Standard Hard Drives?

Building an entertainment system and fancy dash is one thing. Running a powertrain ABS and other critical systems is an accident waiting to happen. It likely violates all sorts of laws and standards. If you wreck you could find your insurance voided leaving you with civil and criminal problems. Assuming you live thru it.

Building the critical systems on any OS and PC hardware is just insane. I don't care how good a programmer you are there is no such thing as a PC that can reach the reliability of the stuff the car makers build. No PC hardware you are likely to buy off the shelf is built to take the constant abuse of being in a motor vehicle.

Since you all will probably build this anyway...

At least break you criticals away from you entertainment. Plan on using 2 PCs at least.

Now for your hardware....

You all should go read www.silentpcreview.com specifically the information on under volting and under clocking the system. Even small amounts of this can greatly reduce heat.

You'll also want to look into system boards that support AMD or Pentium Mobil processors. These systems will likely allow you to use passive cooling methods. The mobil CPUs all have PowerNow (AMD) and Speed Step(Intel) that matches CPU clock to the actual load on the CPU. This cuts both heat and power. Even at full speed these chips produce less heat than the desktop units.

Hard disk is right out for all the critical systems. You need Flash and RAM. hard disk should only be used for non critical items like your music library. The use of laptop harddrives in shock absorbing mounts should leave you reasonably reliable but even if it dies you only had music on it.

Sensors that talk to the ECM/BCM of most cars already are setup for 5V. MAP for example is a 5V sensor. With some additional protection/conditioning circuitry these sensors can all talk directly to whatever AD convertors you use. Output can be controlled with simple transistor and relay setups depending on how much current that you have to switch.

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The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the year...

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by watts: I would SERIOUSLY consider not having the braking areas touched by the ECM. Can you imagine the insurance and liability concerns if something went wrong (a computer crash? No! say it ain't so!) and the brakes went out or whatever....

I haven't come up with a safe solution to ECM controlled brakes yet, those will come last in the series if they even come at all.

quote Originally posted by watts: Also, then you can take your MP3's with you (aka removable face plate for your deck). Would really suck if the car got stolen and everything went with it! Heck, for that matter... have the main engine control as a removable 'rack'. The ultimate in theft detterant! You leave the car and pull the main brains, leaving only the vehicle security system in it. Think of the killer customizable alarm module you could make and program! Down the road a new feature comes along, you just pull out the alarm module, modify/add/delete and plug it back in.

I have a solution to possible theft:
Biometrics - the identification of individuals using biological traits, such as those based on retinal or iris scanning, fingerprints, or face recognition.
There's a lot of this around for PC's, they have a USB interface. Heck even if it has a USB interface, I can get one of those PriveKey USB computer locking keys. Instead of starting your car with a metal key, you have a USB key, plug it into the steering column and hit the "Start" button the dash. Damn that would be cool...... it would suck if I lost it though. But its only $30 and way more secure then those laser cut keys.

Fingerprint readers are pretty cheap anymore. I'd recomend that over the USB key. Those USB keys can be a pain in the rear.

quote Originally posted by theogre: You'll also want to look into system boards that support AMD or Pentium Mobil processors. These systems will likely allow you to use passive cooling methods. The mobil CPUs all have PowerNow (AMD) and Speed Step(Intel) that matches CPU clock to the actual load on the CPU. This cuts both heat and power. Even at full speed these chips produce less heat than the desktop units. Hard disk is right out for all the critical systems. You need Flash and RAM. hard disk should only be used for non critical items like your music library. The use of laptop harddrives in shock absorbing mounts should leave you reasonably reliable but even if it dies you only had music on it. Sensors that talk to the ECM/BCM of most cars already are setup for 5V. MAP for example is a 5V sensor. With some additional protection/conditioning circuitry these sensors can all talk directly to whatever AD convertors you use. Output can be controlled with simple transistor and relay setups depending on how much current that you have to switch.

I'm aware that mobil processors produce less heat but at the cost of performance. They are designed for laptops and low end consumer PCs, not mission critical ECM's that can tolerate ZERO downtime. Why passive cooling instead of water? What happens when its 112 here in Oklahoma in July? My motherboard melts or my car won’t even start because the BIOS has the overheating feature enabled? No thank you, watercooling will solve that problem. And I'm not using anything critical on the hard drives, I'm going to use compact flash. Good idea on the laptop vibration absorbing mounts for the hard drive, I didn't think of that.

[This message has been edited by IEatRice (edited 04-23-2005).]

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: I'm aware that mobil processors produce less heat but at the cost of performance. They are designed for laptops and low end consumer PCs, not mission critical ECM's that can tolerate ZERO downtime. Why passive cooling instead of water? What happens when its 112 here in Oklahoma in July? My motherboard melts or my car won’t even start because the BIOS has the overheating feature enabled? No thank you, watercooling will solve that problem. And I'm not using anything critical on the hard drives, I'm going to use compact flash. Good idea on the laptop vibration absorbing mounts for the hard drive, I didn't think of that.

Think about it, at best your water cooling system is at ambient air temp, which above a nice hot Oklahoma road could easily hit 130-140*. If you could fit the system in the cabin it would definitely make life better.

Anyway, about the brakes, I think it's best advised to leave this task to items currently at hand. Trust me, I'm a digital control freak, and I have to have my fix too. But the brakes don't really have a good reason to be electronically controlled. Regular mechanical systems are not only sufficient, but usually excellent.

Good luck
Nate

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My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.
You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped mine's mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs.

Have you thought about using a romulator? (xtronics.com) It will allow you to run the car even if your computer is not on, and still allows you (or your software) to make changes on the fly. A romulator works by emulating the Eprom in the ECM. Check out The VN1 server on Gmpcm.com too, it runs on windows but it sounds similar to what you want to do.

Sorry if you've already checked this out, but I am very intrested in this project a would like to see how it works for you!

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'86 Fiero GT 4spd, 3400 mpfi, K&N filter, Cavalier seats, Celica GTS Rims, Mustang Scoop, Poly, Sway bars and 11.25" brakes in the process
'69 AMC Ambassador sst 2dr hardtop 390ci
'01 Yamaha YZ426F
'89 Acura Integra LS-winter beater

quote Originally posted by RockChip: Have you thought about using a romulator?

I know what you're talking about.... I've got one from them.

But that still uses the stock ECM - what is being discussed is the total removal of the ECM and moving control over to a newer faster more controllable PC.

How do you plan on interfacing the EFI to the computer? This will be very interesting!

quote Originally posted by RockChip: How do you plan on interfacing the EFI to the computer? This will be very interesting!

With a modified one of these
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
They provide an execellent image of how things work here
http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html
The software they provide is for windows. I emailed them asking to send a copy of the code, but just in case that fails, I'm in the process of reverse engineering it to get the raw machine code. From there I can convert it to C (by hand, ugh). From there I can make preprogrammed copies for the "Sport" "Race" and "Highway" buttons to store on compact flash. The program also has GUI readout, this WILL be very interesting. The device uses COM ports 1-4 with a DB9 (PC monitor cable) connector. Which is 'okay' but I'd rather everything be USB to connect to the PC. USB cables are much smaller and faster.
Now for more information about the donor car. I talked to a local Fiero buddy today about where to ground my amp and I used the opportunity to ask him to keep a watch for a fastback auto, he told me he's in the process of buying one to sell! HURRAY! I'm going to be doing a turbo EcoTec and 4t65-e swap. So I'm going to be doing software controlled boost as well (another thing added to the list). But right now I'm playing the save money game. I got a Silver dollar in my change at 7 -11 though never seen one before. Cost $16.43 for 7.345 gallons of gas..... yuck. But anyways, keep the good ideas coming. Ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer. Have a super day

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: Cost $16.43 for 7.345 gallons of gas..... yuck.

Not wanting to get off topic, but... I just 'filled up' (34.5L or 9USg) and it cost me $37.10 !

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Flash memory is reliable and non-volatile, but don't forget ... flash memory does have a limited number of write cycles. You might want to consider booting from flash memory and then running totally from RAM ... in which case ECC RAM would be an even better choice.

yes, which is why you use it for just the software - just written once. maybe again for updates. between updates & system changes, it'll still be way under the life of the mem cells. like someone else mentioned, using a 1 Gig CF card with an IDE controller is a great way to go.

And dont forget to add wireless netweorking for easy updating. and GPS & mapping software. A tablet PC is a another nice starting point - 15" touchscreen display.

Honestly, I wouldn't trust a fully installed Linux environment to operate as a real-time controller in this instance. Especially if you're using it for other things (strobe lights, disco balls, and whatever else you're playing with).

Sure, you can home brew your own ECM (as mentioned the Megasquirt project, or the EFI332 project). But those are embedded controllers, running as dedicated processors, in a *real time* environment. If you haven't noticed the trend in cars, it's not a 'single CPU' controlling everything, it's multiple CPUs communicating over a LAN-like interface (currently CANbus). Everything's got its own controller these days.

And by the time you build the hardware to interface to the sensors, injectors, etc - you'll have spent more money hooking the motor to your PeeCee than it would've cost to build an embedded controller in the first place.

To me, it still makes more sense to go with an already-well-engineered solution (even a stock but updated ECM, like a '730), than to try to run an engine with a PC.

to protect a standard hard drive you can wrap it in soft porous foam rubber with a cooling fan blowing through the foam for cooling - it wil remove any of the sharp bumps that generally cause contact

How's EFI332 coming along anyway?
Any running models yet?

Check out the code for that if you're looking for examples of engine management coding.

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: With a modified one of these http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html They provide an execellent image of how things work here http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html The software they provide is for windows. I emailed them asking to send a copy of the code, but just in case that fails, I'm in the process of reverse engineering it to get the raw machine code. From there I can convert it to C (by hand, ugh). From there I can make preprogrammed copies for the "Sport" "Race" and "Highway" buttons to store on compact flash. The program also has GUI readout, this WILL be very interesting. The device uses COM ports 1-4 with a DB9 (PC monitor cable) connector. Which is 'okay' but I'd rather everything be USB to connect to the PC. USB cables are much smaller and faster. Now for more information about the donor car. I talked to a local Fiero buddy today about where to ground my amp and I used the opportunity to ask him to keep a watch for a fastback auto, he told me he's in the process of buying one to sell! HURRAY! I'm going to be doing a turbo EcoTec and 4t65-e swap. So I'm going to be doing software controlled boost as well (another thing added to the list). But right now I'm playing the save money game. I got a Silver dollar in my change at 7 -11 though never seen one before. Cost $16.43 for 7.345 gallons of gas..... yuck. But anyways, keep the good ideas coming. Ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer. Have a super day

You realize that the code for MegaSquirt II is already in C, right? You can download all the code files and everything else from http://www.msefi.com , in the download section. I'm using MegaSquirt for my project, and during crappy weathered days I've been building up a base tune, and testing features. Have you taken a look at the -Extra code? It's for the MS1, though, and is still in assembly language.

Ultra MegaSquirt will have CAN, and maybe USB interfaces as well, along with sequential injection support, along with integrated support for coil on plug ignition, WBO2, and possibly even ion-sensing ignition. You may want to wait for that if this is something that's going to take place further down the road.

Have fun disassembling all 38 pages of code.

quote Originally posted by Will: How's EFI332 coming along anyway? Any running models yet? Check out the code for that if you're looking for examples of engine management coding.

Alot of the people behind that are the ones working on MS now. It powered several vehicles though.

Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 04-26-2005).]

The DIYEFI web pages have some GOOD info on the math required to run the injection. (as mentioned above)

If you are looking into your own controller here's a list ofmy suggestions:
1: The Ogre is right, seperate the critical systems from entertainment
2: DON"T use consumer grade hardware! It's not designed for the physical stresses! Go with an industrial type embedded system such as a PC104 format. it's more compact and will survive better. Modules are available that can serve as inputs form the sensors ans also drivers for solenoids.
3: Program in a WATCHDOG timer! it will force a microprocessor restart in the event of lockup or stack errors.

I'd put in my input on this... but one, I'd get *itched out by at least one person, two, my opinion would get shot down, and three, it would take up a whole page.

I will say this. Your hard drives will be fine. We handle WAY more bumps than any car in our P-3's, and the 5 different hard drives we use hold up fine, day after day, and they have for the last decade or so. Plus, ipods have hard drives, not flash memory, and they work fine even after being dropped, bumped, etc.
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Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli
Aircraft Electronics Technician Third Class
Patrol Squadron Ten
United States Navy

[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 04-27-2005).]

Yes. THe iPod's disk is designed to handle more stressful situations. It's a 4500 or 5400 rpm drive. You'll probably be ok with 7200 rpm even. But a 10K rpm sata drive is going to be toast pretty quick. But I don't suppose it matters. Anyone wanting to emulate vital automotive systems, with consumer grade PC hardware, is going to have nothing but problems. Have fun blowing up your car.

quote Originally posted by fieroturbo: I'd put in my input on this... but one, I'd get *itched out by at least one person, two, my opinion would get shot down, and three, it would take up a whole page. I will say this. Your hard drives will be fine. We handle WAY more bumps than any car in our P-3's, and the 5 different hard drives we use hold up fine, day after day, and they have for the last decade or so. Plus, ipods have hard drives, not flash memory, and they work fine even after being dropped, bumped, etc.

The hardware & software reliability can be fixed, booting off flash or even a CD should be no problem, that takes care of the drive problems, use a laptop or mini-ITX board, properly insulated from power surges and heat should work fine..
Linux/*BSD don't need a harddrive to run, they just boot with the custom engine/car control software off flash or whatever and run from RAM, no moving parts involved at all.

My main problem is, how do you drive fuel injectors, ignicion coils etc. and read O2 and pressure sensors with pc grade hardware?

Edit: and I seriously doubt you'll blow up your car by a hardware/software failure, its much more likely the car simply stops running, either reboot the computer, fix the software or swap out the defective hardware and you're on your way again.. obviously not something you'll want to do on your cross-country road trip, but I don't think it'll be the disaster some make it out to be.

[This message has been edited by miztic (edited 04-29-2005).]

Not easily. And it depends on the failure. A simple off-by-one error could cause your car to run way too lean, get hot, and boom.

quote Originally posted by miztic: My main problem is, how do you drive fuel injectors, ignicion coils etc. and read O2 and pressure sensors with pc grade hardware? Edit: and I seriously doubt you'll blow up your car by a hardware/software failure, its much more likely the car simply stops running, either reboot the computer, fix the software or swap out the defective hardware and you're on your way again.. obviously not something you'll want to do on your cross-country road trip, but I don't think it'll be the disaster some make it out to be.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Not easily. And it depends on the failure. A simple off-by-one error could cause your car to run way too lean, get hot, and boom.

absolutely agree, but thats more of a testing issue and not a function of PC hardware, that could just as easily happen with a poorly tuned $3500 motec

personally i've been reading up on the megaSquirt stuff after getting the link from this thread (thanks!) that seems to be the way to go, it just made my N* swap a whole lot more affordable, i'll just write me a pretty linux app for tuning, monitoring and possibly access control, voice command starting anyone ?

Why do you not boot to bootable cdrom and ru from ram?
you could do some real interesting stuff here... I'll keep watching.