Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum and have a question for those of you that are familiar with the 3800 S/C swap and wiring the harness in. I've been researching this swap for a couple of weeks here on the forums and elsewhere and am still a little foggy on the wiring harness.

Info on my fiero:
it's a 1985 V6 4speed manual (I plan on keeping this transmission with the new engine)

Info on Donor:
1999 automatic GTP 3800 S/C

I have the wiring diagrams for both the fiero and the donor.

Now for the questions...
Do I need to keep the Fiero PCM to make anything work properly?

My understanding is I use the PCM from the GTP. All the wires to the engine stay the same. Then all the wires for the sensors are connected to the wiring harness for the fiero using the wiring diagrams to determine the proper wires from the fiero harness connect to the GTP PCM. Is this correct?

What wires must be connected from the GTP PCM to the fiero harness to start the engine?

What about the change from the automatic tranny to the manual. What do I do with the extra wires here? Can I just ground them?

I've read about the passkey defeat device, but also read that this is unreliable and it's best to have the PCM from the GTP reprogrammed and this taken out. Does Fastfiero still provide the reprogram service? If not who does?

Any other wiring information that you can think of beyond the basics that I'll need in doing this swap?

Thank you in advance for any information,

Aaron

Since it sounds you are going OBDII here are some answers.

I do program the PCM's. In your case for manual install there are several codes.

You will not need the Fiero ECM to do anything.

The integration of the sensors to C500 is the goal. The also the 3800 PCM to the Fiero wiring.

Any real detailed questions I will try to answer by phone. See www.fastfieros.com

Loyde

My answer to all of your qustions is get in touch with Loyde above as if it wasn't for him I would have gotten half of mine done. I found that each swap is differnet and some will answer you here with one answer for all swaps, Especially the axles. Rick B

Thanks Loyde,

I'll be getting in touch once I'm ready to begin work on the swap.

Aaron

fiero380, I'm undergoing the SC 3800 swap as well. I sent my PCM off to Lloyd and had him reprom it. His website will tell you exactly what you need to take out. From what I've read, don't waste your money on the passkey bypass, they're flaky. As lloyd said, you will not need the Fiero ECM to do anything and going to a manual install you will be taking out a lot of trans sensors from the GTP's wiring harness. But get in touch with lloyd...

P.S. Lloyd, you sent me those schematics for hte V-6 but then you remembered/realized my car had the duke. Could you send me the schematics for hte 4 cylinder or point me to the right direction on where to get them?

Bump so Lloyd can read

reprogramming??? HA don't need it

BUT Loyde can do it and remove some stuff you don't need . BUT I never had mine re-programed ( yet) I want to raise the rev limiter and just a few other things that I don't need the computer looking at.

Use the "park and drive" wires for the tranny and just ground them! yank out all other wires fro the tranny!

Pass key circuit can be made for $12 at radio shack.

NOT KNOCKING Loyde at all he can and will do a great job / help with the swap!!

------------------

88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. Custom

So does anyone have any kind of schematics or instructions for the wire harness modifications online? Do I have to move the alternator? What modifications to the cooling system are needed? Will the coolant lines be anywhere near close to where they need to be? With the double-front exhaust manifold method, the exhaust will dump to opposite sides of the car. Is it common to just do a 180 bend on the rear and a crossover for the front and combine the two somewhere above the transmission? As far as the reprogramming goes, it looks like Lloyde will be a good call, but I want to do the wiring myself. Will his program get rid of emissions and pass-key inputs? Will the rest of the setup from a SeriesII 3800 SC run as is or will I have to do stuff like EGR block plates and stuff like that.

I'll be converting an 88 GT with a 5 speed Getrag. My goal is to be able to enter it in the 2006 Grassroots Motorsports Challenge. I also want it to be able to be driven daily. So I'll want to find out what to do with that AC wiring too. Does it just need a solenoid to increase the idle when engaged?

I've been searching for these answers for ever now. But I'm about to get my engine so I need to get the answers ASAP. I'd call Lloyde but I don't want to take up the guy's time at work when the most I'll probably be buying from him is a reprogram. If it was't for the $2006 budget I'd get the whole wiring and custom mounts from him too.

Thanks in advance,
Chuck

Ok Chuck, get your reading glasses on, here we go!

quote Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv: So does anyone have any kind of schematics or instructions for the wire harness modifications online?

Not wire per wire per-say. Each conversion is pretty straightforward with the wiring. It's easiest to see what the ECM / motor / car requires, and you simply connect that wire to the one that it requires.

quote Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv: What modifications to the cooling system are needed?

I have an 88 GT w/ the 38oo SC. The only modification that I made was the installation of a Vette surge tank that is a self bleeding system. I didn’t want to deal with the hassles that are associated with the stock Fiero system. Most, if not all do not change anything other than the connections.

quote Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv: Will the coolant lines be anywhere near close to where they need to be?

That is totally dependent on how you do your install, and the motor that you specifically choose. The SSEi motors have a little different setup with water routing I believe, and this is going to change how you go about it. Overall, it's pretty close yes.

quote Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv: With the double-front exhaust manifold method, the exhaust will dump to opposite sides of the car. Is it common to just do a 180 bend on the rear and a crossover for the front and combine the two somewhere above the transmission?

Exhaust is the most custom part IMO of the install. Each exhaust install is dependent on the stock parts that you use, if you go w/ headers, or what not. I know that there are a lot of guys that are using the stock manifolds, which is going to exit towards the rear of the car. There is no reason to cut your trunk, as done by some others.

The exhaust can be installed so that it's not required to loose that space there in the rear. Go with headers if you can. As soon as you get this thing in the car, your going to want to spend the 4o.oo for a 3.4” pulley, and a lot of these motors don't respond well to it unless there is a way to get that extra exhaust out of the car.

quote Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv: As far as the reprogramming goes, it looks like Lloyde will be a good call, but I want to do the wiring myself.

I'd suggest doing it yourself. It's not that hard, it's just time consuming. When it's all said and done, you will be very glad that you did. On that note, DO NOT pay for schematics. Darth Fiero's website has darn near every schematic that you are going to require for the swap without asking even a dime.

quote Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv: Will his program get rid of emissions and pass-key inputs? Will the rest of the setup from a SeriesII 3800 SC run as is or will I have to do stuff like EGR block plates and stuff like that.

No, you can run the EGR and all emission equipment if you need to do so. They just need to be wired when you are working your install.

quote Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv: So I'll want to find out what to do with that AC wiring too. Does it just need a solenoid to increase the idle when engaged?

A/C is computer controlled w/ the OBD II if I’m not mistaking. There was a thread here a while ago that was talking specifically what was required for the install for the A/C into the Fiero & the 38oo motors.

Ask away with the questions, there are alot of really good people here that are able to answer your queries. I speak from experience - I'd have had a heck of a time with the install into my GT if it was not for those "in the know" here on PFF.

If you’re looking to save some serious $$, you might want to talk to Darth Fiero about your ECM as well. He will be able to burn you a chip for the OBD I ECM which is more than capable of running your motor. The last time that I checked, the cost was ~3o.oo for a chip, 3o.oo for the ECM, and you can sell the OEM ECM that came with the motor on E-bay / CGP and recoup the cost of damn near the cost of your chip & ECM.

If you don't get an ECM with the motor, or they send you the WRONG one like the ya-hoos that I bought mine from, this is a very good option to go with vs the 175.oo that Lloyd charges. .

Come to think of it, I have a OBD I PROM w/ Ryans Code in there - I will be willing to sell ya the PROM w/ the code in there for a very reasonable price if you are interested as well. It's got the 5 speed stuff in it, no EVAP, EGR and a few other things that we can chat about if your interested. PM / E-mail me if you'd like to chat about it.

GL, and take lots of pics - they come in handy when you’re scratching your head asking - "How'd that thing go again?"

--Allen

Wow, thanks. Sounds like there isn't any scarey stuff that should keep me from being successful with it so I guess I'll go ahead and dive in.

Thanks for the offer but I want to stick with the OBD-2 for the diagnostic abilities. I already own a coule hand helds that can monitor everything in an OBD-2 system for me.

I'd give you a "+" but I don't have 30 posts yet.

Pretty scarey. I must be a real lurker. As much time as I spend on here, the number of Fieros in the driveway is catching up to the number of Pennocks posts I have. lol

Got another 88 coupe today. Freebie. doesn't run. Electrical issue somewhere. No spark. The engine is super clean though. Oops - off topic. I'll start my own thread when my engine gets here.

[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 10-10-2005).]

You know what Allen,,, Mcaanda..... I am tried of you running my services down based on the transaction that occurred between you and I... I am going to tell my side of the story in this thread rather than start a new thread in general..

First off in this thread you say

quote Mcaanda : If you don't get an ECM with the motor, or they send you the WRONG one like the ya-hoos that I bought mine from, this is a very good option to go with vs the 175.oo that Lloyd charges. .

I dont charge $175 for PCM programming in OBDII... Its $125 includes ONE shipping event... Not 3 or 4 like you would like to think... The transaction between you and I was value of $175, but the fact was, I programmed your computer and paid you $50 via PAYPAL and that made the $175 for the cut 3800SC flywheel you sent.

Now at this point in the transaction you have sent me a PCM, and I have received YOUR provided information on the engine year model and mods you are doing...

Upon first starting the engine you call me that you think it is rich and wont idle. I tell you to get the car together and drive the car and get the fuel tables filled so the IAC will work proper.

Well, at some point you come up with a couple of codes, and you want the PCM reprogrammed. You send it back, and I change the codes in the PCM, adjust the fuel table a little.

Now you get the car running finally and drive the car only to figure out the engine is not the year model you provided me information on, and this effects the MAF alot. Then you decide the Tstat settings need to change based on your idea to change the Tstat. So you want to ship the PCM again.. I accept the PCM, but just like the last time you shipped the PCM you call 3 times in 3 days to see if I got the PCM because Fed Ex showed it delivered, but it in fact was still at Fed Ex because of there error. You practically call me a liar that the PCM is at my place and I better get it programmed and back out. At this point i am tried of you calling me all hours of the night asking OBDII wiring questions as well. I did NOT do your wiring harness, it is your responsibility to figure out your own mistakes at the wiring level. All you want to do is blame the code in the PCM. Your code is in many other PCM's to a degree, and it works fine for them, as well as the many manual transmissions I install my self and tune here on site.

Now I ship the PCM back and you call at 730pm with a immediate conversation of " P0300, what do I have? " Well, I hang up the phone and you call right back... "huh Loyde, I got this problem with my scanner showing P0300, what do you think the problem is? " Man if I was calling someone that I only spent $125 with and he had $30 lost in shipping PCM's on code issues that were the customer problem, and not the person programming the computer, I would be alot nicer to them on the phone.. I told you I cannot help you with P0300 problems, that it is wiring, plugs, or many other factors to consider. Then like you want so many details and pictures to the problem.. I decide I am not helping you any longer. WHY?

Then you post in that thread about "what do you dislike in threads" (found the thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20050818-1-051714.html ) or something like that, maybe it ended in the trash can.. Here are threads relating to it...

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052301.html

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/033697.html

Anyway, you go on to say you are tired of pictures of useless Fiero parts, and some girl installing them on the car in such details... Then you want all these details from me on wiring and PCM programming.. .That was the last straw with me buddy, I will not support you any longer...

So you jump to Ryan (Darth Fiero) and post every chance you get to OBDI stuff now because you were not successful on OBDII... You did not get my wiring harness, and the worse YOU provided the bad information the engine from the salvage yard for your PCM programming.

2nd issue I have with you is emailing and PM'ing people directly about my services and not telling the story correct. I have the emails you sent to 2 people, and the responses I had to provide back because you only tell a part of the story.

I have your emails accepting the responsibility of the problems with your PCM and what programming that went into it.

Get off your high horse Allen...

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 10-10-2005).]

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: You know what Allen,,, Mcaanda..... I am tried of you running my services down based on the transaction that occurred between you and I... I am going to tell my side of the story in this thread rather than start a new thread in general.. First off in this thread you say ( insert quote here ) Mcaanda : If you don't get an ECM with the motor, or they send you the WRONG one like the ya-hoos that I bought mine from, this is a very good option to go with vs the 175.oo that Lloyd charges. . ( /end quote ) I dont charge $175 for PCM programming in OBDII... Its $125 includes ONE shipping event... Not 3 or 4 like you would like to think... The transaction between you and I was value of $175, but the fact was, I programmed your computer and paid you $50 via PAYPAL and that made the $175 for the cut 3800SC flywheel you sent. Now at this point in the transaction you have sent me a PCM, and I have received YOUR provided information on the engine year model and mods you are doing... Upon first starting the engine you call me that you think it is rich and wont idle. I tell you to get the car together and drive the car and get the fuel tables filled so the IAC will work proper. Well, at some point you come up with a couple of codes, and you want the PCM reprogrammed. You send it back, and I change the codes in the PCM, adjust the fuel table a little. Now you get the car running finally and drive the car only to figure out the engine is not the year model you provided me information on, and this effects the MAF alot. Then you decide the Tstat settings need to change based on your idea to change the Tstat. So you want to ship the PCM again.. I accept the PCM, but just like the last time you shipped the PCM you call 3 times in 3 days to see if I got the PCM because Fed Ex showed it delivered, but it in fact was still at Fed Ex because of there error. You practically call me a liar that the PCM is at my place and I better get it programmed and back out. At this point i am tried of you calling me all hours of the night asking OBDII wiring questions as well. I did NOT do your wiring harness, it is your responsibility to figure out your own mistakes at the wiring level. All you want to do is blame the code in the PCM. Your code is in many other PCM's to a degree, and it works fine for them, as well as the many manual transmissions I install my self and tune here on site. Now I ship the PCM back and you call at 730pm with a immediate conversation of " P0300, what do I have? " Well, I hang up the phone and you call right back... "huh Loyde, I got this problem with my scanner showing P0300, what do you think the problem is? " Man if I was calling someone that I only spent $125 with and he had $30 lost in shipping PCM's on code issues that were the customer problem, and not the person programming the computer, I would be alot nicer to them on the phone.. I told you I cannot help you with P0300 problems, that it is wiring, plugs, or many other factors to consider. Then like you want so many details and pictures to the problem.. I decide I am not helping you any longer. WHY? Then you post in that thread about "what do you dislike in threads" (found the thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20050818-1-051714.html ) or something like that, maybe it ended in the trash can.. Here are threads relating to it... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052301.html https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/033697.html Anyway, you go on to say you are tired of pictures of useless Fiero parts, and some girl installing them on the car in such details... Then you want all these details from me on wiring and PCM programming.. .That was the last straw with me buddy, I will not support you any longer... So you jump to Ryan (Darth Fiero) and post every chance you get to OBDI stuff now because you were not successful on OBDII... You did not get my wiring harness, and the worse YOU provided the bad information the engine from the salvage yard for your PCM programming. 2nd issue I have with you is emailing and PM'ing people directly about my services and not telling the story correct. I have the emails you sent to 2 people, and the responses I had to provide back because you only tell a part of the story. I have your emails accepting the responsibility of the problems with your PCM and what programming that went into it. Get off your high horse Allen... Loyde

Loyde, first off, this belongs in an E-mail / PM, but being that you have decided to call me out, I feel it only necessary that I respond to the claims that you are / have made here.

In reguards to the comment I have posted:

quote Posted by myself If you don't get an ECM with the motor, or they send you the WRONG one like the ya-hoos that I bought mine from,

This was in no way slanted, strayed, or in reference to you at all. Is somebody feeling guilty for the BS they pulled?

When I originally bought the 38oo SC motor that I now have in my GT, the ECM that the yard that I bought it from sent me out the door with the wrong computer. As time went on, it became more and more apparent that the yard “pieced together” the motor that I have and sold it to me telling me that it was one thing, when in reality, it was as mismatched as the spots on a Calico cat.

They didn’t have what I requested, so they “built” one out of what they had there - not knowing that it was going to be completely disassembled and reworked for the install into a Fiero.
Had I not done this, I’d have never known the extent to which they really pieced it together – short of trying to get it to start while in a car, as it would have never run.

I will not contest the fact that I fab’d a manual transmission flywheel for you, with the agreement that you were to program my ECM with the parameters that were sent to you and a payment of 5o.oo was to be sent to me for the difference in the agreed pricing. Your anger issues with my stating that you were willing to work with me in a previous thread was blown way out of proportion, and was ultimately uncalled for.
I stated that you were great to work with, were willing to work on people with pricing, and at the time I thought that it was going to be a win-win situation. I guess that you saw it differently.

On the issues with calling you a liar, I apologize if you feel that way, but I was very concerned that the ECM was missing at that point. Remember that at NO TIME did I call you a liar, nor did I infer that you had the ECM and were not telling me that you didn’t have it.
I had a FED EX tracking number with a delivered date and time, but you stated that there was none to be found. I again called you yes, after talking with the FED EX account people, and they asked that I have you check in places that they stated you’d never look, as they like to hide things so that people don't take the packages.

After the weekend, yes the package showed up at your place of business. This was a mistake on part of FED EX, not yourself nor I, for it being listed as delivered. In reality it was sitting on a truck because somebody wanted to go home early on a Friday afternoon. I'm sure that you’d have been just as concerned about the ECM not being there as I if the situation had been reversed. I will state in your behalf, that you did send out another ECM w/ the updated code in it after some conversation that we had.

The MAF sensor & motor issue had been brought to your attention on o4 / 3o / 2oo5 as I had E-mailed pictures of the MAF to you. If you are unable to tell the difference of the pre-98 MAF’s from the post 98 MAF’s, there are some things that you need to check up on before you call yourself the almighty king of OBD II. The loss of the 3o.oo in shipping is because you can not tell the difference between the 2 different MAF’s – hence the pictures sent to eliminate the possibility of issues later. I, apparently like you, were not able to tell before this ordeal got started. I’d have hoped that you were able to differentiate the two by this time.

Yes, in correspondence that has been sent to you, in hope that the bridge to getting this on the road and running not be completely destroyed, I did admit that there could have been the possibility that there was miscommunication between you and I in regards to the MAF. In going back though my mail, I have found that this should have been cleared if you looked at the pictures of the sensor that were sent. I even offered to make the difference of the shipping, but you declined. To continue to dwell on the past is going to give you an ulcer. If the 3o.oo is really giving you that much heart burn, I can send it out the next time that I go to the postal office. I'm sure that you’re spending more than that in antacids.

As stated by yourself above:

quote Posted by Lloyd All you want to do is blame the code in the PCM. Your code is in many other PCM's to a degree, and it works fine for them, as well as the many manual transmissions I install my self and tune here on site.

To a “degree?” What the hell is a “degree?”

If this is the case, is there not the possibility that there are issues with the code? If there are things that are changed with the code in the ECM, you of all people should know that things can and do go wrong. To state that the code in the ECM is not at fault, but then to state that the code that is in the ECM that you sent me is to a ”degree” like others is where I call BS. Admit that there is the possibility that your code is at fault, because as you have stated, they are all not identical.

Loyde, the SES light that I have in the car is still on, codes that you stated were going to be removed are still there. I’d love to hear how you’re going to explain this. We talked about the T-stat, and you suggested that I put the 18o in there rather than the 16o that was originally discussed. This was when the ECM was going BACK to you after I had to send it to you for you to REMOVE the fuel cut enablement codes from the computer that was clearly stated in the original request for modification of the ECM. Please explain to the general audience how you missed this?

Let’s recap for a moment – you didn’t get the MAF right, you didn’t remove the fuel cutoff codes from the ECM and it’s my fault. That requires the ECM to be sent back to be corrected. How many times has this happened – I know personally of 3 others that have had this issue with your ECM’s. Its always the consumers mistake for your shortfalls…Ok, fine…I guess that I will accept the blame on this as well if it’s going to be easier on your ulcer.

In regards to “Tress” I don't know what the hell your issue is. I stated an opinion, and I don't give a flying rats xxx what you think of that.
Who the hell made you the protector of all that feminine & Fiero?
FYI, I have talked to Tress and her husband in the past and that portion of history is but water under the bridge. I appreciate you trying to bring world peace and what not, but I think that it better that you do what you do best, but apparently are no good at – minding your own business.

Lets talk about D. Fiero now ( Ryan from this point forward )
Yes, you are correct when there are those that are asking about the ECM information about the 38oo SC conversion. I think that your prices are too high, and those that are asking about it need to know that there are alternatives to your less than desirable antics. For the price of an OBD I ECM, and a chip programmed, you can still have enough left over to get yourself into a good down payment on mounts, or exhaust.
The installation of the 38oo SC into a Fiero is not cheap.

Look alone at the ridiculous prices that you charge for your install, or the printouts of the schematics that you sell. I understand that there are bills that are to be made, things they are desired, but they are the same on this / consumer side of the street. We also are looking to make house payments, car payments and you damn well better believe that I'm going to help out the next guy that is out there looking for an edge. There are those that have helped me along the way, excluding yourself from this category, and I feel that what comes around goes around. It’s my time to make suggestions even if it’s going to hurt your bottom line.

Welcome to the free market economy baby. It’s the way that things work.
Don't like it when I state that there are alternatives that will get the job done cheaper, faster, and with better service than you can dream of offering – that means that it’s time to change a few things now doesn’t it?
Don't blame me for others that offer superior products to what you are offering. Change your business profile.

Call it my own little personal crusade – seems that we all have one now don't we?

And while on this topic, you damn well better believe that yes, I have talked with more than a number of people that are asking about your services. I do not seek those individuals out specifically, but in the course of conversation they are allowed to see the side of you that you try to hide here on PFF. I will tell them of the seriously undesirable dealings that I have had with you, and how like 9o% of PFF, and at one time I as well, thought that you damn near walked on water with 38oo’s attached to your feet.

The sad thing is, that there are those that no matter WHAT I and a number of others have said about the bullshit that you have dealt us, they still will defend you to the death. I will admit that yes, you have a knack for installs that look very professional, and seem to be more than road worthy. But in dealings of all other sorts, you leave more than a few things desired.

For Christ’s stake, grow the hell up with your threats of posting E-mails. Hey guess what, you’re not the only one who has ‘em, but I’d rather prefer to act my age not my shoe size multiplied by a factor of ½.
An E-mail to me is like a PM. It’s between the person that sent it and the recipient. Post them, I care not; there is nothing that I have to hide.
All that has been stated in those mails is factually based, & I was upfront with that to which I have stated. And will state again if asked directly.

I wish that I’d had a high horse to get off of. If I did, then all that has been stated above would be pointless and then and only then could you say that I was full of it. The sad thing is that reality sometimes bites you in the ass and I know that you just got bit.

Piss poor service does wonders in a small market with somebody that relies on it to make his house payment. It’s still not too late to finally be what it is that people think you are, and what I did at one time;

Someone worth recommending spending their hard earned chits with…

--Allen

quote Originally posted by mcaanda: This was in no way slanted, strayed, or in reference to you at all. Is somebody feeling guilty for the BS they pulled? When I originally bought the 38oo SC motor that I now have in my GT, the ECM that the yard that I bought it from sent me out the door with the wrong computer. As time went on, it became more and more apparent that the yard “pieced together” the motor that I have and sold it to me telling me that it was one thing, when in reality, it was as mismatched as the spots on a Calico cat. They didn’t have what I requested, so they “built” one out of what they had there - not knowing that it was going to be completely disassembled and reworked for the install into a Fiero. Had I not done this, I’d have never known the extent to which they really pieced it together – short of trying to get it to start while in a car, as it would have never run. I will not contest the fact that I fab’d a manual transmission flywheel for you, with the agreement that you were to program my ECM with the parameters that were sent to you and a payment of 5o.oo was to be sent to me for the difference in the agreed pricing. Your anger issues with my stating that you were willing to work with me in a previous thread was blown way out of proportion, and was ultimately uncalled for. I stated that you were great to work with, were willing to work on people with pricing, and at the time I thought that it was going to be a win-win situation. I guess that you saw it differently. On the issues with calling you a liar, I apologize if you feel that way, but I was very concerned that the ECM was missing at that point. Remember that at NO TIME did I call you a liar, nor did I infer that you had the ECM and were not telling me that you didn’t have it. I had a FED EX tracking number with a delivered date and time, but you stated that there was none to be found. I again called you yes, after talking with the FED EX account people, and they asked that I have you check in places that they stated you’d never look, as they like to hide things so that people don't take the packages. After the weekend, yes the package showed up at your place of business. This was a mistake on part of FED EX, not yourself nor I, for it being listed as delivered. In reality it was sitting on a truck because somebody wanted to go home early on a Friday afternoon. I'm sure that you’d have been just as concerned about the ECM not being there as I if the situation had been reversed. I will state in your behalf, that you did send out another ECM w/ the updated code in it after some conversation that we had. The MAF sensor & motor issue had been brought to your attention on o4 / 3o / 2oo5 as I had E-mailed pictures of the MAF to you. If you are unable to tell the difference of the pre-98 MAF’s from the post 98 MAF’s, there are some things that you need to check up on before you call yourself the almighty king of OBD II. The loss of the 3o.oo in shipping is because you can not tell the difference between the 2 different MAF’s – hence the pictures sent to eliminate the possibility of issues later. I, apparently like you, were not able to tell before this ordeal got started. I’d have hoped that you were able to differentiate the two by this time. Yes, in correspondence that has been sent to you, in hope that the bridge to getting this on the road and running not be completely destroyed, I did admit that there could have been the possibility that there was miscommunication between you and I in regards to the MAF. In going back though my mail, I have found that this should have been cleared if you looked at the pictures of the sensor that were sent. I even offered to make the difference of the shipping, but you declined. To continue to dwell on the past is going to give you an ulcer. If the 3o.oo is really giving you that much heart burn, I can send it out the next time that I go to the postal office. I'm sure that you’re spending more than that in antacids.

As stated by yourself above:

quote Posted by Lloyd All you want to do is blame the code in the PCM. Your code is in many other PCM's to a degree, and it works fine for them, as well as the many manual transmissions I install my self and tune here on site.

quote To a “degree?” What the hell is a “degree?” If this is the case, is there not the possibility that there are issues with the code? If there are things that are changed with the code in the ECM, you of all people should know that things can and do go wrong. To state that the code in the ECM is not at fault, but then to state that the code that is in the ECM that you sent me is to a ”degree” like others is where I call BS. Admit that there is the possibility that your code is at fault, because as you have stated, they are all not identical. Loyde, the SES light that I have in the car is still on, codes that you stated were going to be removed are still there. I’d love to hear how you’re going to explain this. We talked about the T-stat, and you suggested that I put the 18o in there rather than the 16o that was originally discussed. This was when the ECM was going BACK to you after I had to send it to you for you to REMOVE the fuel cut enablement codes from the computer that was clearly stated in the original request for modification of the ECM. Please explain to the general audience how you missed this? Let’s recap for a moment – you didn’t get the MAF right, you didn’t remove the fuel cutoff codes from the ECM and it’s my fault. That requires the ECM to be sent back to be corrected. How many times has this happened – I know personally of 3 others that have had this issue with your ECM’s. Its always the consumers mistake for your shortfalls…Ok, fine…I guess that I will accept the blame on this as well if it’s going to be easier on your ulcer. In regards to “Tress” I don't know what the hell your issue is. I stated an opinion, and I don't give a flying rats xxx what you think of that. Who the hell made you the protector of all that feminine & Fiero? FYI, I have talked to Tress and her husband in the past and that portion of history is but water under the bridge. I appreciate you trying to bring world peace and what not, but I think that it better that you do what you do best, but apparently are no good at – minding your own business. Lets talk about D. Fiero now ( Ryan from this point forward ) Yes, you are correct when there are those that are asking about the ECM information about the 38oo SC conversion. I think that your prices are too high, and those that are asking about it need to know that there are alternatives to your less than desirable antics. For the price of an OBD I ECM, and a chip programmed, you can still have enough left over to get yourself into a good down payment on mounts, or exhaust. The installation of the 38oo SC into a Fiero is not cheap. Look alone at the ridiculous prices that you charge for your install, or the printouts of the schematics that you sell. I understand that there are bills that are to be made, things they are desired, but they are the same on this / consumer side of the street. We also are looking to make house payments, car payments and you damn well better believe that I'm going to help out the next guy that is out there looking for an edge. There are those that have helped me along the way, excluding yourself from this category, and I feel that what comes around goes around. It’s my time to make suggestions even if it’s going to hurt your bottom line. Welcome to the free market economy baby. It’s the way that things work. Don't like it when I state that there are alternatives that will get the job done cheaper, faster, and with better service than you can dream of offering – that means that it’s time to change a few things now doesn’t it? Don't blame me for others that offer superior products to what you are offering. Change your business profile. Call it my own little personal crusade – seems that we all have one now don't we? And while on this topic, you damn well better believe that yes, I have talked with more than a number of people that are asking about your services. I do not seek those individuals out specifically, but in the course of conversation they are allowed to see the side of you that you try to hide here on PFF. I will tell them of the seriously undesirable dealings that I have had with you, and how like 9o% of PFF, and at one time I as well, thought that you damn near walked on water with 38oo’s attached to your feet. The sad thing is, that there are those that no matter WHAT I and a number of others have said about the bullshit that you have dealt us, they still will defend you to the death. I will admit that yes, you have a knack for installs that look very professional, and seem to be more than road worthy. But in dealings of all other sorts, you leave more than a few things desired. For Christ’s stake, grow the hell up with your threats of posting E-mails. Hey guess what, you’re not the only one who has ‘em, but I’d rather prefer to act my age not my shoe size multiplied by a factor of ½. An E-mail to me is like a PM. It’s between the person that sent it and the recipient. Post them, I care not; there is nothing that I have to hide. All that has been stated in those mails is factually based, & I was upfront with that to which I have stated. And will state again if asked directly. I wish that I’d had a high horse to get off of. If I did, then all that has been stated above would be pointless and then and only then could you say that I was full of it. The sad thing is that reality sometimes bites you in the ass and I know that you just got bit. Piss poor service does wonders in a small market with somebody that relies on it to make his house payment. It’s still not too late to finally be what it is that people think you are, and what I did at one time; Someone worth recommending spending their hard earned chits with… --Allen [/COLOR]

You know what Allen, your not even worth replying to just like I told you in the last email I sent you.

One point to make however.... When new people search on 3800 as this thread is titled, and they read the thread that got archived with the BS you display about a person that has alot of sprit in working on a car, and wants to share that with everyone, and you come along to break that sprit... I dont agree with that at all. I can chose to help and work with people based on ethics, money in hand, or just plain for free... I can tell you I have helped many on here for FREE ! Jason from down south texas called and asked to buy my wiring diagrams, but I just started telling him how to wire the items. Then that lead to him calling about 8-10 more times. I continued to help. Scott Kimball called so many times, I lost count.. What you really forget is I answer the phone 10am to 11pm... My cell phone minutes for the month of June were 3212 minutes INCOMING calls... My July was 2845 INCOMING minutes. My outgoing on the average is 800 minutes... I stop everything I am doing when someone calls and answer every question I can without complaining or trying to get off the phone. You try being a support person to that degree. You called me so many times, I was tried of it. Starting your conversation with "P0300, what do i have" ... No "hello loyde, how are you" . .No " Hi Loyde, car is running for the most part, but I have a mis-fire code"... You just yell out " P0300, what do I have" ... I dont need that Allen, and I dont need to support someone that is like that...

Good Day !

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 10-11-2005).]

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: You know what Allen, your not even worth replying to just like I told you in the last email I sent you. One point to make however.... When new people search on 3800 as this thread is titled, and they read the thread that got archived with the BS you display about a person that has alot of sprit in working on a car, and wants to share that with everyone, and you come along to break that sprit... I dont agree with that at all. I can chose to help and work with people based on ethics, money in hand, or just plain for free... I can tell you I have helped many on here for FREE ! Jason from down south texas called and asked to buy my wiring diagrams, but I just started telling him how to wire the items. Then that lead to him calling about 8-10 more times. I continued to help. Scott Kimball called so many times, I lost count.. What you really forget is I answer the phone 10am to 11pm... My cell phone minutes for the month of June were 3212 minutes INCOMING calls... My July was 2845 INCOMING minutes. My outgoing on the average is 800 minutes... I stop everything I am doing when someone calls and answer every question I can without complaining or trying to get off the phone. You try being a support person to that degree. You called me so many times, I was tried of it. Starting your conversation with "P0300, what do i have" ... No "hello loyde, how are you" . .No " Hi Loyde, car is running for the most part, but I have a mis-fire code"... You just yell out " P0300, what do I have" ... I dont need that Allen, and I dont need to support someone that is like that... Good Day ! Loyde

First off, this conversation has no basis in belonging in this thread – it is totally off topic and belongs in a PM or E-mail and will be my last reply to this out of respect for the original thread creator.

If you would like to stroke your own ego for the sake of stroking it, I’d suggest that you do it elsewhere, as you are hardly impressing me with your cell phone bill quotes.
My bill was 57.45 – are you impressed? Didn’t think so, as it doesn’t matter. You still failed to provide what you said that you were going to.

Better yet, how about you take some of those minuets and help out the THREE OTHER GUYS + myself for that matter, that you yourself have stated that you have decided to no longer support. Did they also crush a “Fiero Spirit” or did you screw up their order for the custom programming as well only to be blamed because of your failings?

Facts are facts Loyde, the ECM that you sent back still is not correct with the requests that have been made originally in the first request that I sent out to you before all this started. But again this is my fault, as you take none upon yourself.

Arguing this with you is a loosing battle for both sides, and I want no more of it.

You can’t save face with words on a computer screen; it takes action to do so. Actions of which it seems that you are incapable of producing.

Regarding the “yelling out” of Po3oo, I’d have to vigorously contest that. I have always greeted you with a customary “hello,” “hey there hefe” or what not. To state that I yelled at you the instant you answered the phone, is just blasphemy.

If you prefer to continue this conversation, I’d suggest that you to do so via either the PM or E-mail channels. This conversation has no bearing / usefulness being debated here and will no longer be replied to.

Until then, take care

--Allen

quote Originally posted by mcaanda: First off, this conversation has no basis in belonging in this thread – it is totally off topic and belongs in a PM or E-mail and will be my last reply to this out of respect for the original thread creator. If you would like to stroke your own ego for the sake of stroking it, I’d suggest that you do it elsewhere, as you are hardly impressing me with your cell phone bill quotes. My bill was 57.45 – are you impressed? Didn’t think so, as it doesn’t matter. You still failed to provide what you said that you were going to. Better yet, how about you take some of those minuets and help out the THREE OTHER GUYS + myself for that matter, that you yourself have stated that you have decided to no longer support. Did they also crush a “Fiero Spirit” or did you screw up their order for the custom programming as well only to be blamed because of your failings? Facts are facts Loyde, the ECM that you sent back still is not correct with the requests that have been made originally in the first request that I sent out to you before all this started. But again this is my fault, as you take none upon yourself. Arguing this with you is a loosing battle for both sides, and I want no more of it. You can’t save face with words on a computer screen; it takes action to do so. Actions of which it seems that you are incapable of producing. Regarding the “yelling out” of Po3oo, I’d have to vigorously contest that. I have always greeted you with a customary “hello,” “hey there hefe” or what not. To state that I yelled at you the instant you answered the phone, is just blasphemy. If you prefer to continue this conversation, I’d suggest that you to do so via either the PM or E-mail channels. This conversation has no bearing / usefulness being debated here and will no longer be replied to. Until then, take care --Allen [/COLOR]

Just like I told you on the phone, and the offer still stands...

You send me back the PCM, I will flash it back stock, and even bonus with the latest GM code for that year model, refund $125 - $30 wasted in return shipping the PCM to you for your INACCUTATE supplied engine information that I paid... You will have a stock PCM again and $95... Then you can deal with DHP, or Intense, but dont go to ZZPerformance.com because I am a certified installer for them and I do some of the Fiero PCM's...

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 10-11-2005).]

Fiero380, to get back on topic, Loyde is very easy and friendly to deal with. There are HUGE variations from one install to another, so it's obvious that not every part, wire, etc can be a cut and dry replica of one another. Despite what has been said in this thread, I have had a great amount of help from both Mcaanda and Loyde. I have dealt (and still am) with Loyde with our swaps here (2 in progress) on a personal level, and as he says, he is always available to help with what we consider even the most minor details. I wouldn't hesitate to give him a call for anything you may need. I have chatted with Mcaanda on the forum in posts, and have taken his advice indirectly from posts made here on the forum.

There are a number of people who have completed these swaps, so there is another person to help you out as each day goes by. I would check out the swap group on yahoo, as it is also filled with swap info. Good Luck with your conversion...

Loyde, you have a PM.

Wow, this got a little off topic. I thought this post was dead.

Anyway, my project is plugging along. I've run into significant delays mostly because I'm learning as I go (First engine swap), and because of rusted bolts. MAPP gas is now my best friend for dealing with bolts. Lloyde's already reprogrammed my chip and got it back to me and was very quick about it.

The engine is in the car and the suspension is on. I recently had it towed from the shop I was working in back to my house. It was nice to see my car move again even if it was on the back of a truck. I've got to get the fuel lines hooked up, coolant lines hooked up, wiring done, replace a few rusty bolts here and there, redo the brakes (including lines) which I've found to be pretty shot, Figure out a Dog bone mount, exhaust, get the clutch line bled and connected, and that may be it but I'm probably forgetting something.

I've started work on the wiring recently. I'm stripping it all down and having a friend who's got experience with this sort of thing give me a hand. I've found what look to be the correct schematics for the wiring, so at this point it's just sorting out the rat's nest. Suggestions on the best way to do coolant lines or fuel hookups would be helpful at this point.

Aaron

Stick with Loyde as he was honest with me. He recommended others for work and probably spent more money on his phone calls from me than the $100.00 he charged for the computer work at the time. I cant say one thing bad about Loyde and am really disappointed in Mcaanda as it was clear he went after Loyde the way he posted .
That stuff is just wrong and I am the President of Cleveland Fieros standing up for Loyde's work and commitment. This is way more than what I can say for others I dealt with that were supposed to be so great during this build. I don't even want to get into that garbage now.
If it wasnt for Loyde I wouldnt have gotten 7 trophies & plagues this year. Rick B

------------------
President of Cleveland Fieros
www.clevelandfieros.com

[This message has been edited by Rborecky (edited 10-12-2005).]