Ok everyone, I have a few questions for all the engine swap guru's out there. I bought this notchie with the motor rattling (knocking like a thrashing machine may be more appropriate) a few years ago and it has sat in my garage ever since. Of course being deployed overseas for a year might have had a little to do with that. Anyway, I bought a very fresh 327 turbofire, rated at 300 HP going off the engine casting and head casting. I am planning on installing this motor in my Fiero when I get home next month using one of Archie's kits. My questions are this.....I want to install a TPI off of a 86 Iroc 350, but do not have a computer or wiring harness for it. Are there any resources for getting the wiring harness and computer to turn this into a stand alone system. I am thinking of turbocharging it sometime down the road, so I need some flexability in whatever system I end up using. Also, I need to know what would be a good auto to put with this engine, and one that will support an engine that will eventually put out around 700 horses . I am hoping to pretty much do away with the Fiero computer, as I am going to build up my own dash (airframe mechanic in the Army....isn't fiberglass and O-aluminum wonderful things) using aftermarket electric gauges. Any help on this build would be greatly appriciated. I want to get all my ducks in a row before I start this project, as I hope to have it done within the month I have off after coming home from deployment...which will make it right about time for my birthday (happy birthday to me, lol) Anyway, enough of my rambling off the subject. As I said earlier, any and all help, sugestions, resorces and input is greatly appriciated

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Hats off to you Thumper on a couple accounts. Thanks for your work.

As for the 327, I'm a big fan of the engine. Lots of guys will say a 350 is better, but not me. I like the 327. That 300 hp is carb'd? I know you can build a whole lot on a carb setup like they did back when the 327 was in production, but if it is TBI and turbo you want, then you can buy all the support equipment you need. Archie will know exactly what you need when you talk to him about your kit. He is pretty good in the advice department.

You just need to say you want a computer module for a turbo'd SBC and "Bob's your uncle" at any good speed shop.

Good luck for the rest of your tour and good luck with the build.

Arn

Your best resource to get TPI parts cheap would be the mall at thirdgen.org. Much better than EBay for that. EBay may be another one too but I see parts at thridgen much cheaper and more often. Also you can get upgrade parts for cheap like Edelbrock bases and runners and such from people upgrading to Super Ram setups etc.
If you want the full 300hp (assuming the long block is really capable of that) with the TPI you may better step up to a ported TPI plenum with bigger runners and bigger aftermarket base. That way you are sure it won't choke up the engine. As for wiring there are many options from the stock TPI to aftermarket units from Painless etc. I personally used the stock V6 Fiero wiring and a 165 ECM running speed density. Much easier and cleaner install but will require tuning if you upgrade stock TPI (which in your case you may still need anyway). And BTW, welcome to the forum

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

According to my research before I bought the engine, it is rated at 300 HP, probably out of a 64-65 Vette or Camero, and that was factory with the cast iron intake and Q-jet 4 bbl. I fell in love with the 327 many years ago when I had a 250 HP 327 in a 70 4sp half ton......never failed to roast the tires if I dumped the clutch > ) hehehehehe. Anyway, this one has the high flow camel hump heads...or at least high flow for mid 60's technology. The TPI setup I have is a complete setup, minus the electronics, off of a 86 Vette with the large runners and....if I remeber correctly.....a 90mm throttle body, but can't remeber for sure, been over a year since I looked at it. I would love to supercharge it as I build it up for the install, but money is tight, had to buy land with a garage to work on my project in....got the land, still have to build the garage, lol. Anyway, going off the GM specs for a turbo-fire 327, they were rated at 275,300, and 350 HP respectively, going off the year, block, and head casting numbers. The head numbers and casting numbers match up with mine for the 300hp. As far as the supercharger goes, Procharger is about a 45 minute drive from my house, and I like the way their chargers fit under the hood. Since I am not going to run A/C when this goes back together, I am going to attempt to set the alternator down low where the power stearing would normally go and put the supercharger up in the alternator's position, just for ease of installing the charger, and to have a shorter run fo the air charge with less bends in the flow. I am also raising the floor of the trunck to give myself some more room for the exaust. I am hoping to run true duals on this when I am done, with headers and 60 series flowmasters.........hopefully I can get it all to fit, lol. This should be one fun Fiero to drive once I get the build done. I figure I still have about 2 months over here....if I don't spend any more money between now and when I get home, I might have just enough to buy my supercharger and a tranny for the swap, but right now my main focus is getting the motor and tranny swap done and getting it back on the road. And as much as I've been talking about it to my buddies over here, the first question from them is, "will it actually fit?", then "Can I drive it once ya get it done?" I just like the idea of an American mid engine sports car with a musclecar engine and performance.....kind of quiet down the tuners in my company over here. Thanks for the resources so far, and keep the ideas coming...........it gives me something to look forward to for when I get back to the states.

Are you set on it being an auto tranny?
Just curious?
Gary

Actually, I would love to have a 5sp for this build, but I am wondering about what all I would have to do to convert the auto car to a manual. I know when I did it to a truck some years ago I swore I would never do it again, but............ I might be more inclined to do it if I had a donor car for the parts. If anyone near me is interested, I have a 84 notchie with a sunroof, good rims, good tranny, rough to fair interior (minus headliner) bad motor (4cyl) that I would trade for the parts to convert my 87 to a 5sp. The 84 has no title, although one could probably be atained. I bought it for parts (engine for the 87). The motor overheated badly, but does still start and run. If I go with a 5sp, what would be a good tranny. I am looking for this car to be torquey off the line, but still have good driveability on the road, ie 2000 RPM or there abouts when its cruising at 70. I had been thinking of going with an o/d tranny for the gear ratio, but if I can accomplish it with a 5sp, it would be great, plus I like the way I can tach it out before it shifts. Just me, but I think a healthy v8 rumbling off the line sounds great. Thanks for the input, and the idea of going manual.

I'm going to put a 4t65e HD with my N* Fiero. They are available on ebay brand new for $849 with no TC. You should be fine for 300 hp and GM racing built them to handle their 1200 hp sunfire. They gave up 4th gear and the price for the build I heard was $4000. If you're going to drag it, nothing will get you down the quarter faster than an auto. I always wanted a stick in my sports cars, but I don't know of any that will handle the power you're talking about. I also have Petes old N* turbo set up, and I figure that if I lower the compression to about 9:1 and boost to 10 psi I should be in the neighborhood of 500 hp. The guys at Intense think that my tranny will hold that if I change to GM racings chain and sprockets and a hardened input shaft on the tranny.

dont bother with the tpi set up go carbed....the tpi power band is down low your 327 is built to rev so its gonna work against your motor unless u do some serious porting on your tpi system...then you might hafta change heads to accept your tpi intakes...and blah blah blah...save the hassle and just go carbed...unless you are looking for gas mileage and prefer power on demand vs the scream of the 4 barrels cracking opened...do your homework...tim...

I can't disagree with those big 4 barrels for fun, sound, and N/A go-power, but for turbo/sc, it is another story. You can turbo or sc a carb, but there are so many kits now for the TBI or injector setup that it kind of makes sense to use the TBI.

As for the tranny, talk to Archie about DrCPU's Tazmanian Devil. He just put it in a 6 speed that really rocks. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/059675.html

Arn

Either upgrade to a newer auto trans or go with a stick. The TH125 will NOT handle it....even if you baby it. Also recommend new axles/ CV joints and buy the best ones you can. I went thru 3 expensive custom built 125s in 4,000 miles....only did a few burnouts with the very first one and never raced it. Broke a few axles too untill Archie hooked me up.

I had already planned on a tranny swap, as I see the stock TH125 as the weak link in the drivetrain for the V8 upgrade. I don't plan on draging it.........too much, lol. I was reading about the TAZMNDVL, and man that 6 sp looks awsome, and now I'm thinking.......... (amazing how when ya start with just wanting to replace a worn out Iron Duke with something thats fairly stock....it morphes into a beast, lol) Right now the focus of the TPI is to:
1) Update the motor for better fuel milage
2) Ease of adding the supercharger a little later
3) Like the looks of the TPI, lol
I am looking for this car to be a daily driver that if I want to take to the local track on friday night, it will still be fairly respectable without sacrificing reliability, drivability, or milage, so when I go back together, I want to make sure everything is right for the build. I am going to talk to Archie as soon as I can get to the phone again and ask him what he sugests as far as the tranny. I like the idea of the 5 or even 6 sp manual, but would have to come up with everything to switch it over (although Todd @ the fiero farm doesn't live too far from me either) Anyway, keep the ideas comming. Oh yah, gonna need some help deciding what wheels/tires to put ander this thing, along with a paint job. Any sugestions out there? I hope this gives a little better explanation of why I am going with the TPI setup.....as of now anyway, but I do still have the Offenhouser intake and Edelbrock 650CFM carb that came with the 327, so I can still go either way. Thanks for the posts and keep em coming.

Ok, everyone, I've decided that as much as I like the idea of a manual in the car, I am going to go with the automatic. Now the question is, which one should I use for this swap? I tried calling Archie today, but all I got was his answering machine, and I doubt if he wants to pay for the long distance charges to call me back over here, lol. Anyway, I am thinking of putting the 4T60 in it. Does anyone have one of these behind a V8, or a V6 with about the same horsepower? This seams to be a fairly common swap for the Fiero. Any thoughts?

quote Originally posted by thumper_64735: Ok, everyone, I've decided that as much as I like the idea of a manual in the car, I am going to go with the automatic. Now the question is, which one should I use for this swap? ......... Anyway, I am thinking of putting the 4T60 in it. Does anyone have one of these behind a V8, or a V6 with about the same horsepower? This seams to be a fairly common swap for the Fiero. Any thoughts?

Look here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20040710-2-045177.html

My work in progress LT1/4T60 is on back on the road recently.

I love manuals, so I find myself shifting the auto myself up and down the gears all the time

Ryan

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1986 Fiero2m8 (LT1 NX / 4T60 Roadster Build)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071642.html

Ok, it sounds like I may want to go with the 4T60E. My only problem is the computer. I'm not sure how I can make it all work together. I'm already modifying the harness to take the TPI computer, and I still have to get it programmed to the 327, as it is off of a 305. Everything I have read so far has stated that the 4T60E, or the later 4T85E has to be used behind the motor it was matched to. Does anyone know how to get around this delima, or should I find as late of a TH440/4T60 as I can? It looks like this is the combo to go with for the motor I am planning on running. Is there anything I should do to it before I install it, such as upgrade the chain and sprockets, etc? Also, I am going to build up my own set of headers (first time) and try building my own exhuast, running true duals hopefully. I plan on taking the trunks out, or at least moving the trunk floor up to allow more space in that area for the exhaust. My biggest exersize in the exhaust area is going to be getting the headers and pipes the same leungth to get equal flow/backpressure through the heads. I have bee thinking about possibly using a set of shorty headers, the just running my pipes, but it is something I am going to have to look into more. All of the ideas, experience, and sugestions are a big help. I am taking a month off before I go back to work once I get in the states, so I hope to have this conversion done by the end of November. As it progresses I'll post picks on here. Now all the links that you have been sending me has me thinking of the mods I want to do to the interior, and possably the body next fall. I can see why everyone says once you start modding these little cars, ya can't stop. Oh well, such is life, lol

Thanks for both posts.
+ rating for you.

I wasn't comfortable with the wiring (I was deciding on carb vs. FI at the time) so I was talked out of ODBII.
I'm learning FI and wiring quick out of necessity, and I truly believe I will have reliable setup with good driveability when it is properly tuned.

You can purchase stand alone controllers for the 4T60E but they're pricey - someone here should be able to post a link for you.
I used the built 4T60 and the ODBI to keep things simpler, but whatever way you go, that is what you will learn about, become comfortable with, and recommend to others

There are few unbiased opinions on forums (in my unbiased opinion)

Fiero2m8

I don't know why you're considering a 4t60e. Did you read my post? Ryan Hess is the guy to talk to about a stand alone controller for the electronic 4 speed autos. $200 compared to $700 for other controllers.

Dratts,
Sorry if it sounded like I was ignoring your post. I have access to a 4T60 that has under 20,000 on it, was just trying to decide rather to go with it, or try to find a good th440. The 4T60 has been built up for streetracing, but the car was totalled before it had really been ran. A freind of mine said I could have the tranny, as he is going to go back with a RWD car and set it up for dragging. I have been trying to decide rather to get totally away from electronics, ie, get a carbed motor, vacuum modulated tranny, and mechanical gauges, or go FI, electronic 4 sp, and electronic gauges. After reading the posts and links here, I decided to go with the TPI and electronic tranny. The HD sounds great, but I am trying to do this swap on a 2500.00 or less budget. So far, without the tranny, I am setting at 1800.00, and have yet to get the computer reprogrammed for the TPI, or get the computer for the tranny. I still have a little over a month to decide though, so I havn't totally ruled out the HD. It's just that I already have access to a 4T60 that I know is in excelent shape, and would have to do nothing to before putting it in the car. Thank you for your post though, and if I decide to go with the HD, I'll definately get with you sometime to get your resources and thoughts one it. Thanks again everyone. Now on to some other things I have been thinking about......How hard is it to modify the 3rd Gen T/A, Firebird interior to the Fiero? I have been looking at some builds, and they look great, but I am a little leary of jumping in with both feet as I have no experience in this area. Any Ideas? I want to update the interior/slightly mod the exterior, and have an original design one off fiero integrating a lot of different ideas. I am even considering using my knowledge in composites/airframe and try to design my own dash from total scratch. I'm just not sure if the G/F will appriciate me spending more time on the car than with her when I get home, lol. Well, keep the input and ideas coming, and any resources or links are appriciated. Thanks again, William

I guess I sounded miffed, Sorry about that, I understand your position completely. I looked at the Nissan 240sx interior and think it would look good in a Fiero. So far the only Japanese parts I'm using are Mazda 929 mirrors on my AD 355 spider, but if I can find a good 240 interior I might go that way. I was going to stay American the whole way. Fiero frame, Held wide suspension, N* engine, American made 355 body.

The Firebird interior works. Look at this car. It runs out of time in 3 hours on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pontiac-Fiero-GT-1986-PONTIAC-FIERO-GT-3800-SUPERCHARGED_W0QQitemZ130025684180QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6419QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

BTW, I still like the carb.

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Sorry it has been a while since I posted, but between getting ready to leave next month and our lousy internet (guess I can't complain too much, at least we have internet) Its been hard to get on line. I can't believe some of the interior swaps I have seen in here since I started looking through them! The ingenuity is amazing and it got me to thinking. I think I am going to try to do my own one-off interior incorperating some things I like from others, as well as some ideas I've had in the back of my mind. One thing about being airframe.......ya have to use your imagination at times for repairs, and ya get experience using many different types of materials and composites. So anyway, this thread about an engine/tranny swap has started turning into a complete build thread, lol. Ohhh well, guess thats how it gets started once ya get bit by the bug, lol. Keep the ideas coming and thanks, Thumper

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO.......the manual tranny is back on.........
I have just about completed the deal on either a 86 v6 5sp...or an 87 4cyl 5 sp. Still trying to figure out which one, lol. Who knows, I might get both, lol. Anyway, just thought I'd give a bump and let everyone know my plans have changed....yet again. Oh yah, my old man picked my 327 up yesterday. says it looks like a new one, fresh rebuild and ready to go.......can't wait to get home and start playing with it, lol.

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My other project........now if I can just talk the Army out of an engine, lol