I am just checking out some info and looking for input on 60-DEG V6 originally the 2.8L
2.8L small journal
2.8L large journal
2.8L aluminum head FWD
3.1L VIN T
3.1L VIN M bore 89mm stroke 84mm 9.5 to 1
3.1L VIN J bore 89mm stroke 84 mm 9.5 to 1
3.4L DOHC VIN X bore 92 stroke 84 mm 9.5 to 1
3.4L VIN E bore 92 stroke 84mm 9.6 to 1
3.5L VIN N bore 99mm stroke 76mm 9.8 to 1 2004+
3.9L VIN 8? bore 99mm stroke 84mm 9.8 to 1 variablr valve timing VVT 2006+

3.4L Crankshaft - Connecting Rod Journal Diameter - 50.768-50.784 mm - Main Journal Diameter 67.239-67.257 mm
Cylinder Head Deck Height 224 mm Connecting Rod Length - Center to Center 144.75-144.81 mm

3.5L Crankshaft - Connecting Rod Journal Diameter - 57.122-57.138 mm - Main Journal Diameter 67.239-67.257 mm
Cylinder Head Deck Height 224 mm Connecting Rod Length - Center to Center 150 mm

3.9L Crankshaft - Connecting Rod Journal Diameter - 57.122-57.138 mm - Main Journal Diameter 67.239-67.257 mm
Cylinder Head Deck Height 224 mm Connecting Rod Length - Center to Center 150 mm

It looks like the block are some what the same. The 3.5L and 3.9L use a longer rod. That is better.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 12-30-2006).]

It looks like the 3.9L has two versions for 2007 one has Active Fuel Managment.
3.9L V6 Engine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This 233-hp V6 is a gas only engine. It features Active Fuel Management™ and advanced Variable Valve Timing (VVT) that uses an electronically controlled camshaft phaser to maximize horsepower and torque outputs. So you get 240 pound-foot of torque and an EPA estimated 20 city and 29 highway MPG.

You may know about this but if not...

http://60degreev6.com/view.php?pg=familytree

------------------
RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto
White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd

This is the 3.5L 2004 info.

3.4L VIN E bore 92 stroke 84mm 9.6 to 1
3.9L VIN 8? bore 99mm stroke 84mm 9.8 to 1 ...

Hmmm... Wonder if the 3.4 Camarobird block will tolerate a 7mm overbore.
I suspect that appropriate pistons could be found.

Not like the Camarobird heads could flow enough, even if ported, but it's something to think about.
If only for a second or two.
------------------
Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe................................................

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-18-2007).]

How about a Series III 3400 SFI block, with the 3.9 LGD rotating assembly, heads, and intake? Use the OBD-II from the 3400 with a larger cable throttle body. What am I missing?

(or just buy an LGD engine, but then you need it's electronics - not sure if OBD-II will run it)

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-18-2007).]

Most of the new PCM that have to operate VVT or DOD/Active Fuel Management cost about $200 and to have it programmed for you application cost about $500. If you have an auto trans you will need a separate TCM I have no figures on how much more money for the GM TCM programed. Yes you can run VVT for about $700 plus the harness. The ECM is about 5" X 6" and 1/2" thick minus connectors

To make it a little more simpler in the event that it's missed or not included in the litany of information above, there are two 3500 V6 engines; the first model 2004-2006 has the same dimensions and internal arrangement as the previous 60 degree V6 engines and has one oil squirter, the second design 2006-present is based on the same platform as the 3900 but has a shorter stroke with the same bore, I'm not sure if it has 3 squirters like the 3900 or not.

The 04-06 version is the best for swaps until the VVT can be figured out. Someone is working on an eliminator in the event the engine proves unruly when attempting to run without VVT, the best way to find out is to find a car with it and unplug it and see how it runs. There are about four cranks; two for the first design 3500 one cast and one steel, then there's the refined (trimmed) version of the steel crank installed in the 3900 and the short stroke version found in the second design 3500 and if it comes in cast form that will make 5 cranks.

During a search I did find two different rod prices for both the later 3500 and 3900 engines suggesting that the rotating assembly balance may have changed at some point given the extra machining on the second design steel crank. I saw listings on GM parts direct for both piston and rod assemblys and individual parts for all of the engines. I pitty the person that has to buy rings for the 5.3L ~$51 per piston.

This is the 3900 piston and rod disassembled, made easy since GM went to a floating setup, the piston is light and looks pretty strong. I mentioned in another thread that the 3.6L DOHC has forged floating pistons and wonder if these might be also, I wrote MAHLE inquiring about it.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 02-19-2007).]

All GM engines are or will be full floating pistons. This was stated in an Interactive Distance Learning "IDL" course. The reason is for repair cost. Also more engine will have replaceable pressed in liners.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: It looks like the LZ9 and F40 go together and the ECM will work just fine. Does anyone see a hang up in this?

As with other swaps, it probably depends upon what else the ECM/PCM wants to talk to.
BCMs, ABS modules, air bag controllers, instrumentation, etc.
If it can be told to ignore the absence of all that other stuff, it ought to work.

This is a lot of the stuff that Loyde was having to deal with, regarding the SC'd Ecotec swaps from the Cobalt SS.

Edit - Looks like he's got it "knocked".
http://www.fastfieros.com/obdii_programming.htm

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-19-2007).]

Some info on 07 G6 with a F40 trans.

Camshaft Actuator System Description
Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator System
The camshaft position (CMP) actuator system is used for a variety of engine performance enhancements. These enhancements include lower emission output through exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) control, a wider engine torque range, improved gas millage, and improved engine idle stability. The CMP actuator system accomplishes this by controlling the amount of intake and exhaust valve overlap.

CMP Actuator System Operation
The camshaft position (CMP) actuator system is controlled by the control module. The control module sends a pulse width modulated 12-volt signal to a CMP actuator solenoid in order to control the amount of engine oil flow to a Cam Phaser passage. There are 2 different passages for oil to flow through, a passage for cam advance and a passage for cam retard. The Cam Phaser is attached to a camshaft and is hydraulically operated in order to change the angle of the camshaft relative to crankshaft position (CKP). Engine oil pressure (EOP), viscosity, temperature and engine oil level can have an adverse affect on Cam Phaser performance. The control module calculates the optimum cam position through the following inputs:

• Engine speed

• Manifold absolute pressure (MAP)

• Throttle position indicated angle

• CKP

• CMP

• Engine load

• Barometric (BARO) pressure

The Cam Phaser default position is 0 degrees. The control module uses the following inputs before assuming control of the Cam Phaser:

• Engine coolant temperature (ECT)

• Closed loop fuel control

• Engine oil temperature (EOT)

• EOP

• Engine oil level

• CMP actuator solenoid circuit state

• Ignition 1 signal voltage

• BARO pressure

CMP Actuator Solenoid Circuit Diagnostics
The control module monitors the control circuits of the camshaft position (CMP) actuator solenoid for electrical faults. The control module has the ability to determine if a control circuit is open, shorted high, and shorted low. If the control module detects a fault with a CMP actuator solenoid circuit, a DTC will set.

CMP Actuator System Performance Diagnostics
The control module monitors the performance of the camshaft position (CMP) actuator system by monitoring the actual and desired position of the CMP Sensor. If the difference between the actual and desired position is more than a calibrated angle for more than a calibrated amount of time, a DTC will set.

More on 07 G6 with F40

Engine Control Module (ECM) C1



Connector Part Information
• OEM: 15499466
• Service: See Catalog
• Description: 73-Way F 0.64 2.8 Sealed (BK)
Terminal Part Information
• Terminal/Tray: See Terminal Repair Kit
• Core/Insulation Crimp: See Terminal Repair Kit
• Release Tool/Test Probe: See Terminal Repair Kit

Engine Control Module (ECM) C1
Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function
1 OG/BK 1786 Park/Neutral Signal
2-8 -- -- Not Used
9 WH 17 Stop Lamp Supply Voltage
10 PU 3120 HO2S High Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
11 TN/WH 3121 HO2S Low Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
12 OG/BK 380 A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Signal
13 TN 5514 Low Reference
14-15 -- -- Not Used
16 PU 1589 Fuel Level Sensor Signal [- Primary]
17 D-BU 473 High Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control
18 BN 4 Accessory Voltage
19 PK 639 Ignition 1 Voltage
20 RD/WH 540 Battery Positive Voltage
21-22 -- -- Not Used
23 PU 1272 Low Reference
24 D-GN 890 Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Signal
25 -- -- Not Used
26 D-BU 6306 CPP Switch Signal (MU9)
27 TN 2501 High Speed GMLAN Serial Data Bus-
28 TN/BK 2500 High Speed GMLAN Serial Data Bus+
29 D-BU 1161 APP Sensor 1 Signal
30 BN 1271 Low Reference
31 OG/BK 1057 Low Reference
32 L-BU 1162 APP Sensor 2 Signal
33 GY 705 5-Volt Reference 1
34 GY 2700 5-Volt Reference 1
35 -- -- Not Used
36 TN 1274 5-Volt Reference 1
37 TN 472 IAT Sensor Signal
38 OG 2760 Low Reference
39-40 -- -- Not Used
41 YE 492 MAF Sensor Signal
42 D-GN/WH 6294 Low Reference (MU9)
43-44 -- -- Not Used
45 YE/BK 6806 IMT Valve Signal
46 -- -- Not Used
47 PK/BK 5290 Ignition 1 Voltage
48 BN 818 Vehicle Speed Signal
49 TN 3221 HO2S Low Signal (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
50 D-GN/WH 465 Fuel Pump Relay Control [- Primary]
51 -- -- Not Used
52 PU/WH 6386 Starter Relay Coil Control
53 -- -- Not Used
54 D-GN 6293 5-Volt Reference 2 (MU9)
55 -- -- Not Used
56 WH/BK 1164 5-Volt Reference 2
57 -- -- Not Used
58 D-GN 335 Low Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control
59 BN 5069 Main Relay Coil Control
60 TN 2759 Low Reference
61 WH 1310 EVAP Canister Vent Solenoid Control
62 OG 6392 IMT Valve Control
63 D-GN/WH 459 A/C Compressor Clutch Relay Control
64 OG/WH 3223 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
65 GY/WH 3122 HO2S Heater Low Control [Bank 2 Sensor 1]
66-67 -- -- Not Used
68 BN/WH 419 MIL Control
69 PU 3220 HO2S High Signal (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
70 -- -- Not Used
71 YE 400 VSS High Signal (MU9)
72 PU 401 VSS Low Signal (MU9)
73 BK/WH 451 Ground

Engine Control Module (ECM) C2



Connector Part Information
• OEM: 13511426
• Service: See Catalog
• Description: 80-Way F Receptacle 0.64 2.8 Sealed (BK)
Terminal Part Information
• Terminal/Tray: See Terminal Repair Kit
• Core/Insulation Crimp: See Terminal Repair Kit
• Release Tool/Test Probe: See Terminal Repair Kit

Engine Control Module (ECM) C2
Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function
1 -- -- Not Used
2 L-GN 1867 5-Volt Reference 2
3 GY 2701 5-Volt Reference 2
4 -- -- Not Used
5 BN 582 TAC Motor Control - 2
6 YE 581 TAC Motor Control - 1
7 -- -- Not Used
8 D-GN/WH 428 EVAP Canister Purge Solenoid Control
9-11 -- -- Not Used
12 GY/WH 3113 HO2S Heater Low Control [- Bank 1 Sensor 1]
13 L-GN 3212 HO2S Heater Low Signal (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
14-15 -- -- Not Used
16 BN 2198 Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid High Control
17 L-GN 1745 Fuel Injector 2 Control
18 YE/BK 846 Fuel Injector 6 Control
19 TN/WH 845 Fuel Injector 5 Control
20 TN 1744 Fuel Injector 1 Control
21 YE 410 ECT Sensor Signal
22 TN 2761 Low Reference
23 -- -- Not Used
24 OG/BK 1175 Low Reference
25 -- -- Not Used
26 D-BU 496 KS 1 Signal
27 GY 1716 KS 1 Signal
28 -- -- Not Used
29 L-BU 1876 KS 2 Signal
30 GY 2303 KS 2 Signal
31 -- -- Not Used
32 GY 23 Generator Field Duty Cycle Signal
33 BN 1174 Oil Level Switch Signal
34 BK 2755 Low Reference
35 TN 2752 Low Reference
36 -- -- Not Used
37 L-BU/BK 844 Fuel Injector 4 Control
38-39 -- -- Not Used
40 PK 1746 Fuel Injector 3 Control
41 GY 2705 5-Volt Reference 1
42 -- -- Not Used
43 GY 2704 5-Volt Reference 1
44 OG/WH 812 5-Volt Reference 1
45-49 -- -- Not Used
50 TN/WH 331 Oil Pressure Sensor Signal
51 -- -- Not Used
52 TN 2199 Low Reference
53 OG/BK 469 Low Reference
54-55 -- -- Not Used
56 TN/WH 3111 HO2S Low Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
57 PU/WH 3110 HO2S High Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
58 L-GN 432 MAP Sensor Signal
59 PU/WH 3210 HO2S Reference Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
60 TN/WH 3211 HO2S Low Reference (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
61 OG 225 Generator Turn On Signal
62 -- -- Not Used
63 PU 486 TP Sensor 2 Signal
64 BN/WH 633 CMP Sensor Signal
65 D-GN 485 TP Sensor 1 Signal
66 PK/BK 632 Low Reference
67 -- -- Not Used
68 L-BU/BK 647 Medium Resolution Engine Speed Signal
69 PU 574 Low Reference
70 PU 2121 IC 1 Control
71 OG/WH 2122 IC 2 Control
72 L-BU 2123 IC 3 Control
73-77 -- -- Not Used
78 YE 2174 Low Reference
79-80 -- -- Not Used

If the cam is at 0 degrees as the default and the PCM waits for closed loop conditions to start changing the cam angle then this engine (3900) should run fine without VVT minus the gains up top that you would have with it. A simple cam upgrade could take care of that by shifting the power band up a little.

It will run ok with the VVT and operating with a compressor on it also. You will see more of this in the next couple of years along with direct injection on more engines.

Before anyone gets too excited about swapping in the 3.9L engine, be advised that this engine uses DBW technology , with an electronic TB a digital fuel pump, a returnless fuel injection system ( notice the fuel rail has no regulator) , accelerator module etc. etc. The engine management task required to swap this engine in would be a job of immense proportions. In addition to changing the fuel pump ( not a direct fit) , adding the new gas pedal / accelerator module and simulating the tranny inputs (or using the the matching tranny), there are just so many imore nputs that would need to be simulated before the the PCM will function properly. Also to my knowledge the PCM's for these DBW engines have not been hacked and reprogramming software is unavailable.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Before anyone gets too excited about swapping in the 3.9L engine, be advised that this engine uses DBW technology , with an electronic TB a digital fuel pump, a returnless fuel injection system ( notice the fuel rail has no regulator) , accelerator module etc. etc. The engine management task required to swap this engine in would be a job of immense proportions. In addition to changing the fuel pump ( not a direct fit) , adding the new gas pedal / accelerator module and simulating the tranny inputs (or using the the matching tranny), there are just so many imore nputs that would need to be simulated before the the PCM will function properly. Also to my knowledge the PCM's for these DBW engines have not been hacked and reprogramming software is unavailable.

Document ID# 1566339
2006 Chevrolet Impala
Fuel Pump
The fuel pump is mounted in the fuel sender assembly reservoir. The fuel pump is an electric high pressure pump. Fuel is pumped to the fuel rail at a specified flow and pressure. Excess fuel from the fuel rail assembly returns to the fuel tank through the fuel return pipe. The fuel pump delivers a constant flow of fuel to the engine even during low fuel conditions and aggressive vehicle maneuvers. The powertrain control module (PCM) controls the electric fuel pump operation through a fuel pump relay. The fuel pump flex pipe acts to dampen the fuel pulses and noise generated by the fuel pump.

I am not sure of your thoughts on a DIGITAL fuel pump??
I will share info on the APP
I have to go to work.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-20-2007).]

Now this is what I'm talking about
High end state of the art engine
lets keep it rolling

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Before anyone gets too excited about swapping in the 3.9L engine, be advised that this engine uses DBW technology , with an electronic TB a adding the new gas pedal / accelerator module and simulating the tranny inputs (or using the the matching tranny), there are just so many imore nputs that would need to be simulated before the the PCM will function properly. Also to my knowledge the PCM's for these DBW engines have not been hacked and reprogramming software is unavailable.

This nice gentlemen has it covered.

Manual trans you say.

You say its an auto no problem

If you look you will see an APP and a TCM.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Before anyone gets too excited about swapping in the 3.9L engine, be advised that this engine uses DBW technology , with an electronic TB a digital fuel pump, a returnless fuel injection system ( notice the fuel rail has no regulator) , accelerator module etc. etc. The engine management task required to swap this engine in would be a job of immense proportions. In addition to changing the fuel pump ( not a direct fit) , adding the new gas pedal / accelerator module and simulating the tranny inputs (or using the the matching tranny), there are just so many imore nputs that would need to be simulated before the the PCM will function properly. Also to my knowledge the PCM's for these DBW engines have not been hacked and reprogramming software is unavailable.

No one I'm aware of was reasonably considering trying to use the stock PCM with this engine. There is a lot in the works on the 60 degree V6 forum addressing the swop as for the returnless fuel rail it's a piece of cake. If you do a search under my name regarding the 3500 I believe you will see my solution to the returnless fuel line by use of a regulator from the 8100 GM V8 which has three ports when cut from the fuel rail, one from the pump, one to the rail and a return with the fuel rail end pointing roughly 180 degrees from the inlet and outlet fittings, in addition to that regulator is adjustable so it's as simple as fitting the Fiero pressure and return line to one side of the assembly and the single line from the 3900 rail to the other end. As for the throttle body, adaptors are already being made again on the 60 degree site to retrofit other TBs and if that isn't enough I have already modified my electric 3500 TB into mechanical needing only to add a TPS sensor and IAC motor however since adapters are being made I'll probably stop my pioneering process and take the easy route. The only real issue with this engine is the VVT as I have already had manufactured and installed a 7x reluctor ring to replace the one that comes on the crank and tested it so that I can control it with the 730 ECM. My wideband tuner/datalogger just arrived today.

This engine with your turbo setup would make the front wheels on the Fiero spin

I'll try and find the links and post them for you to see the progress.

Here they are:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/073962.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/077718.html

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 02-20-2007).]

http://www.fastfieros.com/p...loyde_3800/index.htm
Loyde's Personal 88 Formula Project started 09-01-04 with completion target 09-15-04

88 Chassis to start with:

Rust free Texas chassis
88 suspension (no bump steer kits needed)
Koni struts and shocks
Poly and derin suspension

2004 Series III 3800 SuperCharged engine with 5243 miles...


2004 Series III with 5k miles
Electronic Throttle Control system (just like the corvettes)
PRJ fuel rails
NEW improved low mount alt solution with 2004 alternator
NEW 2004 AC compressor
NEW 2004 starter system (one touch start sequence still pending full implementation)
Custom wiring for 2004 PCM
2004 PCM the size of 4 packs of cigarettes
2004 Custom tuned PCM by FastFieros with HP Tuners software suite
LS6 MAF for better airflow and tuning

Transmission...

2004 4T65eHD Comp G was new with 0 miles
TAP shift paddle shifter installed in center console
3.29 gear ratio

I know it is a 3.8L, but the system uses TAC

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: No one I'm aware of was reasonably considering trying to use the stock PCM with this engine. There is a lot in the works on the 60 degree V6 forum addressing the swop as for the returnless fuel rail it's a piece of cake. If you do a search under my name regarding the 3500 I believe you will see my solution to the returnless fuel line by use of a regulator from the 8100 GM V8 which has three ports when cut from the fuel rail, one from the pump, one to the rail and a return with the fuel rail end pointing roughly 180 degrees from the inlet and outlet fittings, in addition to that regulator is adjustable so it's as simple as fitting the Fiero pressure and return line to one side of the assembly and the single line from the 3900 rail to the other end. As for the throttle body, adaptors are already being made again on the 60 degree site to retrofit other TBs and if that isn't enough I have already modified my electric 3500 TB into mechanical needing only to add a TPS sensor and IAC motor however since adapters are being made I'll probably stop my pioneering process and take the easy route. The only real issue with this engine is the VVT as I have already had manufactured and installed a 7x reluctor ring to replace the one that comes on the crank and tested it so that I can control it with the 730 ECM. My wideband tuner/datalogger just arrived today. This engine with your turbo setup would make the front wheels on the Fiero spin I'll try and find the links and post them for you to see the progress. Here they are: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/073962.html https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/077718.html

Joe: I won't argue that this looks like a strong and solid engine choice. I was just pointing out that with this swap the engine management scheme must be different from stock. You apparently know this already and I like your idea about making a returnless fuel injection system into a return type closed loop system. It's just a shame that these modern engines use such a complex engine management program which virtually ties in just about everything to the PCM- ABS, Climate Control, gauges, electonic transmission control, electronic fuel pump control, wireless electric throttle and all the tradional inputs etc etc. While using a different PCM or aftermarket unit is possible, the swap becomes more difficult when you try to shift and control the new generation GM electronic auto transmissons.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Joe: I won't argue that this looks like a strong and solid engine choice. I was just pointing out that with this swap the engine management scheme must be different from stock. You apparently know this already and I like your idea about making a returnless fuel injection system into a return type closed loop system. It's just a shame that these modern engines use such a complex engine management program which virtually ties in just about everything to the PCM- ABS, Climate Control, gauges, electonic transmission control, electronic fuel pump control, wireless electric throttle and all the tradional inputs etc etc. While using a different PCM or aftermarket unit is possible, the swap becomes more difficult when you try to shift and control the new generation GM electronic auto transmissons.

Would you like a coarse in return-less fuel systems. It has been used for over 10 years now and you have no clue. All fuel systems have fuel pressure regulators. Some are in the tank some are in the fuel filter. In tank is the most popular at the filter is very common. Pouring 200° gas into a large fuel supply is not good and that is why they stopped doing it. If the fuel filter has three tubes it is probably a return-less fuel filter and regulator. CTS has this. One in, One back to the tank, and one the the fuel rail. This is all back at the tank area. Gm also uses a regulator above the Fuel pump in the tank. THE LOOP IS SHORTER. They all return fuel!! After the pump. The systems that are called return-less do not return hot fuel to the tank. They have a dead end circuit, but still have a loop.
If a radio is removed from a 1996 GM car will it start? I hope it will. If the PCM is removed will the radio work how it is designed. NO it will not if it is an up level radio. The PCM does not need all the module to work correctly. The PCM could careless if it has an SRS module and the SRS only records VSS for crash data in most cases. This will be changing. The ABS not ABS/TCS does not need a PCM to work correctly, but if it is a 4WD it need to know if ti is in 4WD and gets this info in most cases from the PCM.
quick list
ABS
TCS
EVO
TIM
PCM
DDM
PDM
LGM
SRS
BCM
TBCM
IPC
HVAC
DVX
RADIO
TV MODULE
ANTENNA MODULE
DRR
RSA
RIM
PZM
RRTM
LRTM
HLM
DRLM
HLLM
HUD
MSM
DDS
PDS
TCM
ATCM
TACM
LRSM
SSM
VES
VSES
HWM
HWWM
HSM
PSDM
RES
VCM
VIC
VCIM
FICM


I can go on but This is stupid. I have been trained in all the gm systems and I am GM Master Tech Certified. I have the knowledge needed to work with GM systems all the systems!
I have a great working relationship with a field engineer that talks very highly of me to the guys back at Detroit. "Favors" Both ways they send me cars that other dealers can not fix!

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-21-2007).]

CTS Returnless system

(1) Secondary Fuel Sender Assembly - Left
(2) Primary Fuel Sender Assembly - Right
(3) Fuel Feed Hose
(4) Fuel Feed Pipe
(5) Fuel Pressure Test Connection
(6) Fuel Rail and Injectors
(7) Fuel Filter
(8) Fuel Return Hose
(9) Fuel Filler Tube
(10) Fill Limit Vent Valve (FLVV)
(11) Fuel Tank

Well I was wrong again and should have known this because I had a bad REG in a CTS. It is in the tank not at the filter. I will find the filter mounted regualator!!


The fuel filter is located on the fuel feed pipe, between the fuel pump and the fuel rail. The electric fuel pump supplies fuel through the in-line fuel filter to the fuel injection system. The fuel pressure regulator keeps the fuel available to the fuel injectors at a regulated pressure. Unused fuel is returned from the fuel filter to the fuel tank by a separate fuel return pipe. The paper filter element (2) traps particles in the fuel that may damage the fuel injection system. The filter housing (1) is made to withstand maximum fuel system pressure, exposure to fuel additives, and changes in temperature. There is no service interval for fuel filter replacement. Replace a restricted fuel filter.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-21-2007).]

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: ...I have been trained in all the gm systems and I am GM Master Tech Certified. I have the knowledge needed to work with GM systems all the systems! I have a great working relationship with a field engineer that talks very highly of me to the guys back at Detroit. "Favors" Both ways they send me cars that other dealers can not fix!

I don't doubt for a second that you know your stuff.

The question is...
As it pertains to swapping one of these engines into one of our cars, can the stock ECM (PCM?) be told to ignore the absence of all the "stuff" that most people won't want to swap in along with the basic engine/tranny package? (Including a manual tranny if desired.)
Is there software available that will allow all that stuff to be "turned off". (I'm assuming that it's sophisticated enough that input signals that are supposed to be there can't be "faked".)

Or is an aftermarket PCM (as you mentioned above) a requirement?

Does the Speartech system leave the VVT and all the other desired features enabled?
While I really couldn't care less about TCS or ABS, or any of a couple dozen other acronyms, I would still have to pass an emissions "sniffer" test on a dyno, and would still want the engine to run optimally.

Thanks for taking the time. That's a bunch of good info!

Part I

Recent TechLink articles have covered:
- Changes in Gen III Engine Fuel Injection System (Jan. 2002)
- MFI Systems (Oct. 2002)
- Testing Fuel Injectors – Misfires (Dec. 2002)
- 3 Step Maintenance Fuel Induction Service Kit (Dec. 2002)

With many of the individual components addressed, it’s time to examine the operation of the entire fuel system and how the components interact.

Fuel injected engines require fuel under pressure to ensure correct fuel delivery from the fuel injectors and to maintain driveability.

TIP: Proper fuel system diagnosis requires a fuel pressure gauge that reads psi and kPa on a scale that is easy to see. Fuel pressure specifications vary between platforms and engines. Always refer to SI for the current fuel pressure specs.

Three types of fuel systems can be found on GM vehicles today.

Return System (fig. 2) -- In a return fuel system, fuel travels thought the entire fuel rail, and unused fuel passes through the regulator and back to the fuel tank.
A Fuel Rail
B Pressure Regulator
C Pressure Side
D Return Side
E Filter
F Tank
G Pump

FIG #2


FIG#3
Semi-Returnless System (fig. 3) -- In semi-returnless systems, fuel travels a short distance outside the fuel tank to an underbody-mounted pressure regulator/fuel filter assembly. Returned fuel does not travel through the engine’s fuel rail, decreasing the amount of heat it’s exposed to.
A Fuel Rail
B Pulsation Damper
C Feed Pipe
D Return Pipe
E Filter
F Regulator
G Pump

Returnless System -- In a returnless system, the regulator is in fuel tank. Excess fuel returns directly to the fuel tank. The filter may be in the tank, inside the pump module. Environmental regulations have made the returnless fuel system necessary. It keeps fuel cooler, reducing evaporation and excessive hydrocarbon emissions.

The fuel system is divided into two parts, low pressure and high pressure. In all three types of systems, the high-pressure side begins at the fuel pump and ends inside the fuel rail. The low pressure side begins at the regulator fuel bypass port and ends at the fuel reservoir in the tank. Returnless systems are characterized by a single high-pressure line that runs to the engine compartment.

The main difference between the three systems is the location of the fuel pressure regulator. In return systems, the regulator is in the engine compartment (on or near the fuel rail) and in returnless and semi-returnless systems, it’s in or near the fuel tank.

Regardless of location, the fuel pressure regulator regulates system pressure by bypassing excess fuel back to the tank. In return and semi-returnless systems, proper diagnosis of pressure concerns requires testing and inspection of the regulator and verification that the pump or pump module is delivering adequate fuel. Inadequate fuel flow may be caused by clogged strainers or filters, rather than pump failure, especially if fuel starvation symptoms occur only at low fuel levels or during hot weather.


FIG#4
Fuel Pressure Regulator Operation
There are two types of Delphi fuel pressure regulators on GM vehicles, Universal Pressure Regulator (UPR) and Mini-Cartridge Regulator (MCP). GM uses regulators from other suppliers, too, but the designs are similar and operation is identical.

Universal Pressure Regulator (UPR) (fig. 4)
A Vacuum Port
B Spring
C Fuel Out
D Diaphragm
E Valve
F Seat
G Fuel In

Mini-Cartridge Regulator (MCP) (fig. 5)
A Cover
B Spring
C Valve
D Seat
E Fuel In
F Fuel Out
G Diaphragm


FIG#5

The fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator work in concert to control fuel pressure supplied to the fuel injectors. At a given voltage, the fuel pump supplies fuel at a relatively constant rate to the pressure regulator. Unneeded fuel diverts back to the tank, to match fuel delivery to engine demand. Fuel flow from the pump varies strongly with voltage. If system voltage is low, the pump may not receive enough power to fully pressurize the system or supply the engine at high fuel demand conditions. Fuel pressure regulators are preset for a particular operating pressure during assembly, and are not adjustable.

Return System Operation
In most all return systems, the fuel pressure regulator contains a vacuum chamber that is connected to manifold vacuum and is separated from the fuel by a diaphragm and valve assembly. The diaphragm has fuel on one side and engine manifold pressure (vacuum) on the other.

All GM fuel pressure regulators contain a calibrated spring located in the vaccum chamber side. Fuel pressure in the fuel rail is regulated by pressurized fuel from the pump acting on the fuel rail side of the regulator’s diaphragm, pushing against the spring pressure and manifold pressure (vacuum) on the other side. When the combined force of vacuum on one side plus pressurized fuel on the diaphragm gets high enough to overcome spring pressure, the relief valve orifice opens, reducing rail pressure slightly by bypassing a controlled amount of fuel to the fuel tank. When an injector fires, it causes a slight pressure drop in the rail. In return systems with a vacuum hose connected to the regulator, vacuum applied to the regulator keeps the pressure difference (pressure drop) constant between manifold absolute pressure and supplied fuel pressure.

Returnless System Operation
Returnless systems operate similarly, but fuel rail pressure decreases slightly with increasing fuel demand. Fuel pressure does not vary with manifold vacuum because the regulator is referenced to atmosphere, not to manifold vacuum. Except for the lack of a vacuum reference, fuel pressure regulators in returnless systems work just like they do in return fuel systems. The calibration of the PCM is modified to look at changes in MAP and vary the pulse width of the fuel injectors to adapt to varying engine loads.

Fuel Pressure Regulator Common Problems
TIP: These conditions apply to return or semi-return systems.

Leaks -- Regulators can leak internally or externally. An internal leak is usually caused by a crack in the diaphragm. An internal leak can be diagnosed by removing the vacuum hose and checking for fuel seepage on the outlet tube or the vacuum line. Place a clear piece of vacuum hose over the vacuum orifice for a short period of time (15 – 30 minutes). If fuel rises up in the hose, the regulator is leaking and needs to be replaced.

Common customer complaints that suggest a leaking regulator are extended crank and fuel odor. More diagnostic tips will be given later.

Noise -- Regulator related noise may be system oriented or the regulator itself. Hold a stethoscope on the regulator and listen for the noise the customer is concerned about. If the regulator is noisy, replace it.

TIP: A noisy regulator may be improperly diagnosed as a noisy alternator.

Disconnecting the alternator is not a good test for isolating noise issues. System voltage will drop, which causes the fuel pump to create lower pressure, eliminating the fuel pressure regulator noise.

Temporarily disconnect the vacuum hose from the regulator if it has one, which slightly raises controlled fuel pressure. If the regulator has no vacuum hose, connect the fuel shutoff valve special tools listed in SI and slightly close either valve to alter controlled pressure. DO NOT fully close either valve when the pump is running, as regulator or pump damage could occur.

With either procedure, if the noise is gone, the problem is not the alternator. Be sure to reconnect the vacuum hose if it was disconnected.

TIP: A regulator that is noisy on one vehicle may not be noisy if placed on another vehicle. And a noisy regulator may be quiet for awhile when removed and inspected on the same vehicle.

Fuel Injectors
An injector operates on 12 volts and delivers fuel when opened. Voltage is supplied to the injector when the key is turned on. Some vehicles have the voltage side of the injector circuit connected to the fuel pump relay. Therefore the injectors will not receive voltage unless the fuel pump is energized. The PCM controls the ground circuit to complete the path for current to flow.

You may suspect an injector is not working if there is a misfire with a code and a dead skip, and the spark is good. Check for voltage to the injector and check that the PCM has the ability to pulse the injector on and off.

TIP: The recommended test for a complete electrical circuit to the injector utilizes a noid light. Simply disconnect the wire harness connector, plug in the noid light, and crank the engine. If the light flashes, voltage to the injector and the PCM’s ability to turn the injector on and off are good.

TIP: The noid light does not have the same resistance as the injector and may not draw the same current. A high resistance circuit may not affect the noid light as much as it would an injector.

Two causes of intermittent injector operation were covered in past TechLink articles: ‘fretting corrosion’ in June, 2003 and injector partially restricted in December, 2002. If you suspect either of these conditions, refer to the TechLink article or a bulletin that advises you on how to test for these conditions.

TIP: If you perform a balance test to find a tricky injector misfire, be sure to use the kPa scale on your pressure gauge and not the psi scale.

Fuel Pumps
The fuel pump provides fuel flow and pressure to meet engine requirements under a wide variety of conditions. These functions must be met without creating undesirable noise, vibration, overpressure, or EMI/RFI in the vehicle.


FIG#6

Typical fuel pump schematic (fig. 6)
A Fuel pump relay
B Fuel pump
C Fuel pump relay control
D Fuel level sensor signal

When the ignition key is turned on, the PCM sends voltage to the fuel pump relay and cycles the fuel pump for 2 seconds. If the PCM does not see ignition reference pulses, it turns the fuel pump off. Other inputs may also be involved on some vehicles.

TIP: If you have concerns about fuel pump operation, go back to the basics, check the schematic for the vehicle you’re working on, and understand how the system operates before you start replacing components.

TIP: In the fuel pump circuit, grounds are critical. Ground connections must be clean and tight.

A fuel pump is designed to operate on numerous fuel compositions in a global marketplace. The pump must deliver a specific volume and pressure required for each application. If the pump does not deliver enough volume, a pressure drop occurs and the vehicle will experience lean combustion during high fuel demand conditions. If the pump delivers too much flow, a larger current draw takes place and the fuel that travels through the system heats up and creates excessive hydrocarbon vapors.

Currently, there are three types of electric fuel pumps used in GM vehicles. They are the turbine, rollervane and G-rotor types. Although the pumping section of each of these pumps is different, the main purpose of the pump is the same -- to provide adequate fuel flow and pressure to the engine under all operating conditions. For diagnostic purposes, fuel pressure values are most important for quick and accuate fuel pump diagnosis.

TIP: Current draw readings on the vehicle are not an accurate indicator of fuel pump condition. There are numerous variables, outside the fuel pump, which can affect the accuracy of these readings. Electric fuel pump current values are typically not published for on-vehicle diagnosis.


FIG#7
Modular Reservoir Assembly (MRA) (fig. 7)
A Cover
B Seal
C Reservoir
D Strainer
E Fuel level sensor
F Strainer
G Pump


FIG#8
Typical Rollervane Pump (fig. 8)
A Inlet
B Impeller
C Ring (eccentric)
D Roller
E Rotor
F Magnets
G Armature


FIG#9
Typical G-Rotor Pump (fig. 9)
A Inlet body
B Impeller
C Gerotor assembly
D Magnet assembly
E Armature
F Brush assembly

Because the fuel pump is located in the fuel tank, quick visual checks may be difficult. To determine if the fuel pump is working at all, hook up the Tech 2 and a fuel pressure gauge and cycle the pump on a couple times. If fuel pressure readings are within specification, you know the pump is working. If there is no fuel pressure, check for a loss of voltage to the pump. Wiring can become corroded, loose or broken. Make electrical repairs according to SI.

If the pump runs when commanded on with the Tech 2 and you still suspect poor fuel pump performance, look for dirt or rust which could cause the pump to wear out prematurely.They can also cause the pump check valve to stick open, leading to hard starting, especially when the engine is hot. Rust is always caused by water, either from the fuel source, by condensation or by ingestion of water by the fuel system. If the vehicle is used under extreme operating conditions (such as off-road), water and dirt may be ingested through the canister vent system.

Fuel lubricates and cools the pump. Driving the vehicle frequently with a very low fuel level in the tank can starve the pump of lubrication and cooling, which can accelerate wear and condensation, two causes of pump problems.

If you replace a pump that has failed due to dirt or corrosion, clean out the fuel tank and lines, to avoid the same damage to the new fuel pump. Also, replace the fuel filter and clean or replace the pickup screen. Contamination on the screen cannot be seen without magnification. Newer vehicles with a pump module usually have two screens, one on the outside of the module and one on the pump inside the module. Both screens may block, but the screen on the inside of the module is not serviceable. So the module must be replaced even if the pump itself is still functional. Dirt visible inside the module “bucket” is an indication that both strainers may be blocked. If contamination is in the fuel tank, it’s most likely to be in other locations in the fuel system. It’s a good idea to check for contaminants in the fuel rail and fuel lines also.