I don't know how different the diff is compared to a cavalier getrag but there is another company called "Team Green" that makes the same product that is stronger than the phantom. I'm not sure of the pricing however.
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09:51 PM
chrishahn87 Member
Posts: 1584 From: East Berlin, Pa - USA Registered: Dec 2004
I got a GR8GRIP in my 4T60. I have no traction problems. I did compare Phantom to GR8GRIP and decided on the GR8GRIP because I'd have to up grade to the stronger springs on the phantom to be close to the same plus I'd have to put it together. And GR8GRIP has 16 contact points , phantom has 8. Look at how the spring are arranged. Team Green has a waiting list and they are hard to get ahold of. I never got a response from them on my 4T60. GR8GRIP 520-623-8880, GR8GRIP.com Oh yea these are not lockers, just limited slip
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85 GT 3.4 14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06 Unknown New 4T60/3.42
I always thought that an LSD makes the handling of the car worse... Is this a silly idea? Something about not letting the wheels spin independent of each other anymore and cornering is now a problem... Is this correct thinking?
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12:14 AM
BobadooFunk Member
Posts: 5436 From: Pittsburgh PA Registered: Jun 2003
I always thought that an LSD makes the handling of the car worse... Is this a silly idea? Something about not letting the wheels spin independent of each other anymore and cornering is now a problem... Is this correct thinking?
i think thats why its limited... it allows a little for good handling
i know some mechanics used too just weld a part together so it was just 2 wheels spinnin, all the time... good for straight... bad for any turning.
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12:25 AM
AquaHusky Member
Posts: 1234 From: Sedalia, Mo Registered: Dec 2006
This makes me think of the Lotus Elise. They made it with an open diff, but everyone bitched about not having a LSD. After what, a year, they put one in and it was slower. Had a better take off from a stand still, but the nose now wanted to push when coming out of corners. Just something to think about. If you plan on only doing 1/4 mile runs, I'd say get it, but if you plan on track time, I wouldn't recommend it. Just my opinion.
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09:42 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
This makes me think of the Lotus Elise. They made it with an open diff, but everyone bitched about not having a LSD. After what, a year, they put one in and it was slower. Had a better take off from a stand still, but the nose now wanted to push when coming out of corners. Just something to think about. If you plan on only doing 1/4 mile runs, I'd say get it, but if you plan on track time, I wouldn't recommend it. Just my opinion.
the nose wanted to push out of the corners because you could now accelerate harder out of the corners - NOT because the rear differential is holding the car straight.
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09:50 AM
AquaHusky Member
Posts: 1234 From: Sedalia, Mo Registered: Dec 2006
Then what made it slower? You would think that they could match the open diff car. Unless the LSD was trying to push it straight. They talked about it in an issue of Grassroots Motorsports. Sadly, I lost that issue and can't make a quote from it.
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12:14 PM
PFF
System Bot
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
I dunno. you may be right. I would say there are other changes besides the diff. maybe the drivers got used to a certain line that worked because you could break just the one rear tire on accell out the corners. maybe the diff they used was locking to hard.
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12:22 PM
AquaHusky Member
Posts: 1234 From: Sedalia, Mo Registered: Dec 2006
You might be right about that, but, with a 2200, maybe less, curb weight and sticky tires, it might just be too light on the nose for power driving. I think this car was made for more finesse and skilled drivers. Not the ham fisted slam it into gear, dump clutch and floor it type. Like me.
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12:26 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Limited slip lets you get more power to the ground. That can cause the car to tend to understeer more. You can actually go faster by easing up off the gas a bit.
Bobado is right. Limited slip allows a some slip so the tires can spin different speeds for corners while putting more power down on the straights. Like he said, drag racers used to weld the diff together, but that only worked for drag racing.
If the limited slip hurt the car's handling, it was probably set up too tight.
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12:49 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Will it HELP the transmission to hold up to the torque of my motor?
It can. What it will do is keep both wheels evenly loaded. A big problem with open diffs is when one wheel starts spinning and the other doesn't you get a huge difference in wheel speed across the diff. Wheel hop and regaining traction can cause shock loads in the diff that can blow out the spider gears or crack the case. The limited slip tends to keep it more evenly loaded. The flip side is it may allow you to put more total load on the transmission, but if it's a balanced load, the tranny will handle it much better. Still, that may help you find the next weakest link in the drivetrain.
California Kid has a Phantom Grip in his car. If you do a search you can probably find a few threads where he discusses the install and his driving impressions. I seem to recall him being quite pleased with it.
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12:54 PM
AquaHusky Member
Posts: 1234 From: Sedalia, Mo Registered: Dec 2006
Limited slip lets you get more power to the ground. That can cause the car to tend to understeer more. You can actually go faster by easing up off the gas a bit.
Bobado is right. Limited slip allows a some slip so the tires can spin different speeds for corners while putting more power down on the straights. Like he said, drag racers used to weld the diff together, but that only worked for drag racing.
If the limited slip hurt the car's handling, it was probably set up too tight.
I'm sure with the years of racing exp., they would know how to set cars up right. But then again, look at some of the big auto manufacturing companies. All I know is that Lotus said it threw off the cars balance that was originally designed to have. That might be why it's slower, they didn't design it to have the LSD.
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02:44 PM
chrishahn87 Member
Posts: 1584 From: East Berlin, Pa - USA Registered: Dec 2004
This makes me think of the Lotus Elise. They made it with an open diff, but everyone bitched about not having a LSD. After what, a year, they put one in and it was slower. Had a better take off from a stand still, but the nose now wanted to push when coming out of corners. Just something to think about. If you plan on only doing 1/4 mile runs, I'd say get it, but if you plan on track time, I wouldn't recommend it. Just my opinion.
Keeping in mind that that Colin Chapman designed the car as a package. Suspension, brakes, drive line and all the interactions between each elemement. To survive and to please his diehard fans I doubt he had the budget to redesign, retool, recalibrate to make the necessary changes to work with the new handling changes. He did make some broad stroke adjustments to fix the easy stuff.
------------------ GT just waiting for the conversion 84 Fiero Turbo Vortec 4300 Phantom GT L35 block, Syclone Intake and ECM T31 turbine with T04B S3 compressor super T61 waiting for next winter www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure. Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
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09:10 AM
AquaHusky Member
Posts: 1234 From: Sedalia, Mo Registered: Dec 2006
Keeping in mind that that Colin Chapman designed the car as a package. Suspension, brakes, drive line and all the interactions between each elemement. To survive and to please his diehard fans I doubt he had the budget to redesign, retool, recalibrate to make the necessary changes to work with the new handling changes. He did make some broad stroke adjustments to fix the easy stuff.
I said that a few posts back.
And as for the spring upgrade, that's either to make it a looser LSD for better differential effect, or tighter for a more spool like effect.
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09:25 AM
chrishahn87 Member
Posts: 1584 From: East Berlin, Pa - USA Registered: Dec 2004
Originally posted by AquaHusky: And as for the spring upgrade, that's either to make it a looser LSD for better differential effect, or tighter for a more spool like effect.
Thank you! The car will be mostly used in street driving - and a few passes down the 1/4 mile.
motor is small block chevy 350
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01:52 PM
AquaHusky Member
Posts: 1234 From: Sedalia, Mo Registered: Dec 2006
I would say to get it out of the box and try that first and adjust it from there. The springs can't cost you that much, you know? Or even tell them over the phone what it will be used for and they should be able to select a preload tension for you.
