Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  Suicide Doors

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


Suicide Doors by Archie
Started on: 03-03-2007 04:22 PM
Replies: 23
Last post by: Fierotaz on 05-26-2007 04:11 PM
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-03-2007 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post


As you know Chop Top #13 is going to be located in Arizona & I've agreed to retro-fit a set of Suicide doors & a 6 speed to it before we send it out there.

Another thread was asking about suicide doors & since we were about to do the doors on this car, I said I'd do a write-up on the surgery.

When I said I was going to do a thread on Suicide doors, I don’t think I realized just how hard it was going to be to explain it completely.

When we do Chop Tops, we pretty well have the methods standardized to where all of them are essentially the same. We’ve made a few improvements over the years on the Chops to eliminate the slight “dip” in the roof & to make molds for the interior “A” & “B” pillars & the triangular parts on the inside trim of the fastback quarter window trim. But the cuts, welds, windows & metal work have been virtually identical thru all of the Chops.

On the suicide doors there is a LOT of fabricating that has to be done & a lot of individual parts that have to be made. There is also some variation from car to car depending on what ¼ panels are on the car & how wide the door has to swing to clear them.

When we did the 1st suicide door car, “The Stinger”, we did the right hand side door 1st because I felt the right side door would be used less than the drivers side door & what we learned on the right side may make the left side door better. And we still do it that way. On this car, we tried to document what we did on the right side of the car with pictures & I figured that what we learned about documenting that door conversion would make the documentation on the drivers side door even better.

At this point we pretty well have both doors swinging already & I’m going to open up this thread with some pictures we took on the passenger side door. Then I’ll try to describe the process in greater detail on the drivers side.

So, to start out with here are some pics taken during the building of the right side door.

As you can see most of the body work needs to be removed.





(The orange color in this pic was caused by the yellow shop worklight that was shining on the car at the time.)



We keep the stock Fiero hinges operational so that we know the front of the door is where it's supposed to be while we work on building up the rear hinges.



Then we got to build up the entire back end of the Fiero door frame with steel plate so that the stock door frame doesn't flex when we get the hinges welded up to it. This finished assembly could have the strongest hinges in the world but the door will sag if you have the hinges attached to anything that will flex. Even if it flexes just slightly, you're going to have problems later.



That plate you see here wraps around to the undersode of the door frame too......





............

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-03-2007 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
The steel plate & the 3" angles are tack welded in as we establish the mounting for the rear part of the hinge assembly.



The pictures showing the building of the hinges for the back of the door didn't come out too well, So We'll show that in more detail on the drivers side. Here we have the door swinging on the rear hinge



Here is a picture of the roughed hinge from the inside.



The nice thing about leaving the original hinges on the door is that you can check the new hinge to make sure it's swinging straight & true by closing the door & checking the hinge bolt holes. When your ready to weld up all that steel at the rear, you can put the front hinge bolts in place to geep everything in place while you weld it up.





...........
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post03-03-2007 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlDirect Link to This Post
Continue please, hehe.
IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-03-2007 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
Another thing of note, if you don't have a Plasma cutter & a welding outfit & know how to use them, you really shouldn't be taking this job on.

Here's some pics of the rear hinge assembly after it's been welded up & after we trim the shape of the upper & lower hinge plates.











Once we have that all established, it's time to put the steel skin back on.



It took Rob, who knows what he's doing & who has done this several times before, about 3 working days to to do what you've seen in the last 3 posts. So don't plan on this being easy.



Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 03-12-2007).]

IP: Logged
RCR
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Shelby Twp Mi
Registered: Sep 2002


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 102
Rate this member

Report this Post03-03-2007 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRSend a Private Message to RCRDirect Link to This Post
EWWW!! Too cool!!!



Bob
IP: Logged
jack_ink
Member
Posts: 683
From: Choctaw, OK
Registered: Nov 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-04-2007 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jack_inkClick Here to visit jack_ink's HomePageSend a Private Message to jack_inkDirect Link to This Post
I love suicide doors and am gonna do it to one of my cars.... YAY!!! been waiting on this thread for a minute... keep up the good work guys
IP: Logged
BobadooFunk
Member
Posts: 5436
From: Pittsburgh PA
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 128
Rate this member

Report this Post03-04-2007 03:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BobadooFunkClick Here to visit BobadooFunk's HomePageSend a Private Message to BobadooFunkDirect Link to This Post
someday.. its all i keep telling myself..

awesome work Archie gonna be at Daytona?

IP: Logged
88White3.4GT
Member
Posts: 1604
From: Hayward, CA
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-08-2007 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 88White3.4GTSend a Private Message to 88White3.4GTDirect Link to This Post
i love suiside doors, but have never seen suiside vdc doors, that would be wild.
IP: Logged
WhiteDevil88
Member
Posts: 8518
From: Coastal California
Registered: Mar 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 497
User Banned

Report this Post03-08-2007 01:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WhiteDevil88Send a Private Message to WhiteDevil88Direct Link to This Post
Interesting gimmick. How much weight would you say that you are adding on?

------------------
Never Lose Respect-So We Prevail

IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:

Interesting gimmick. How much weight would you say that you are adding on?



I don't think of it as a gimmick & I think it's adding about 100 pounds.

Archie
IP: Logged
BH2OFiero
Member
Posts: 136
From: Bridgewater, N.S., Canada
Registered: Jan 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 11:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BH2OFieroClick Here to visit BH2OFiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to BH2OFieroDirect Link to This Post
100 pounds??? By the way...what gauge steel are you using?
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BH2OFiero:

100 pounds??? By the way...what gauge steel are you using?


The curved pc down the back edge of the door is 1/4". All the other flat stock & plate is 3/8" & the 3" angle iron is 1/4".

Archie
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlDirect Link to This Post
I don't know if I've asked you already but, will the clearance work using the suicide doors and a IRM wide-body rockers? Enquiring minds would like to know? It would be nice if you pop'd on a wide body prior to heading to D7.
IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
Trying to update this thread.

Here are some pics of the Hinge on the door on the right side.

Note that in these pics it's not complete yet.











Archie
IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post

Archie

9436 posts
Member since Dec 1999
Now we're going to try to do the Drivers side & give some more detail.

I told you before that we leave the door hanging from the original hinges while we do the initial work. Here we've put on a "C" Clamp with the door latched. That way it serves as a "bump stop" so the finished door will be aligned with the front & rear fenders & not be in too far at one end when we're done.



Then it's time to get out the Saws-All to gain access to the area where we'll build the hinge.



Her's the bottom cut..... (Note the "C" clamp bump stop)



We drill out the rivits





Here is it opened up.....



and the panel, Save the panel because we'll be putting it back on later......



Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 03-12-2007).]

IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post

Archie

9436 posts
Member since Dec 1999
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

I don't know if I've asked you already but, will the clearance work using the suicide doors and a IRM wide-body rockers? Enquiring minds would like to know? It would be nice if you pop'd on a wide body prior to heading to D7.


You may recall that when we did the Suicide doors on Frank Martin's car, he had a set of the IRM rockers on the car & we had a problem clearing the oversized half round trim pc. that was molded into the IRM's. We went ahead & put on my rockers which use the stock half round trim & that took care of that problem. The new rockers we are doing for the wide body, can still use the stock trim so it should clear that.

The real problem will be clearing the area of the rear clip that is above the trim line. The hinges will have to be designed to kick the door out around that body feature.

Archie
IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post

Archie

9436 posts
Member since Dec 1999
Now Rob starts to build the hinge plates inside the "A" pillar.

He uses 2 pcs. of 1/4" wall 3" Angle iron. Both pcs need to be 6" apart. They need to be level & parallel to each other.







As you do that, you need to remember that the most important thing you need to do is to locate the top angle iron in exactly the right place. You'll remember that we still have the door hanging on the car. As you close the door the bottom of the upper angle needs to be located as shown in the picture below.



Initially we just tac welk these angles in place.





............
IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post

Archie

9436 posts
Member since Dec 1999
Now we fabricate the upper & lower plates & locate them.

They are 3/8" plate & are located as shown below. They're just square cut pcs. right now. they'll be Plasma Cut to the correct shape later. They need to come out a little past where the body panels would be & extend about 5" behind the edge of the door. the Plates & the angles are bolted together right now, until we get everything in place. Then they will be welded in place.











Archie

IP: Logged
Fierotaz
Member
Posts: 1289
From: Glendale, AZ
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 93
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotazSend a Private Message to FierotazDirect Link to This Post
Archie, great write up!
Sure glad I did not try to do this myself. I can't wait to drive this beauty
IP: Logged
GT86
Member
Posts: 5203
From: Glendale, AZ
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 165
Rate this member

Report this Post03-12-2007 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GT86Send a Private Message to GT86Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierotaz:

Archie, great write up!
Sure glad I did not try to do this myself. I can't wait to drive this beauty


This is your car? Hmm, I've always wanted to see a choptop in person. Will you be going to any of the local get-togethers after you take delivery?
IP: Logged
Fierotaz
Member
Posts: 1289
From: Glendale, AZ
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 93
Rate this member

Report this Post03-13-2007 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotazSend a Private Message to FierotazDirect Link to This Post
Yes, I will be getting more involved in the local get togethers. I was going to go on the Tortilla Flats Breakfast cruise on Sunday, but ended up spending the night in the ER with my wife. We didn't get done until 11:30 on Sunday.
Leroy

Edited for spelling

[This message has been edited by Fierotaz (edited 03-13-2007).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
GODFATHER
Member
Posts: 1020
From: Summerville S.C
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2007 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHERDirect Link to This Post
Bump for updates
IP: Logged
Fierotaz
Member
Posts: 1289
From: Glendale, AZ
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 93
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2007 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotazSend a Private Message to FierotazDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GODFATHER:

Bump for updates


Archie has completed the doors and should be updating this thread soon, you can get more details in this thread. Just go to the bottom of the page
.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/024804-48.html
IP: Logged
Fierotaz
Member
Posts: 1289
From: Glendale, AZ
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 93
Rate this member

Report this Post05-26-2007 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotazSend a Private Message to FierotazDirect Link to This Post
Well I don't have any update on the actual build, but I wanted to share pics of final product.
This gallery has pics of the suicide doors and the 1.5" drop...

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/2593405#149460005
IP: Logged



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock