I picked up a junk yard 4.9 about 1.5 months ago. It is from a 93 deville. I will try to give some details to go along with the pics.

Here is the motor as it sits on the pallet. I had the yard guys set it on the pallet so It could be easily moved.




After removing the exhaust manifolds, cruise, some of the wiring, hoses and such, we started to get a good look at the engine. Now its time to put it on the engine stand.


After pluging any hole that would let water in the motor. Its time to clean it up. Using these tools, it came pretty clean...


Dad loves the pressure washer. I just stand back with the Simple Green and let him go...


The end result is impressive, by comparison...


Back inside we go to continue the teardown. We removed the water pump, t-stat housing, fuel rail, the remaining hoses and brakets, the distributor, and rocker covers. Everything looks good. Good o-rings on the injectors. Water pump spins and feels good. Distributor also. When we looked inside this is what we saw...



Its filthy, and I mean dirty. One of the banks is much dirtier then the other. Look like it got pretty hot in there at one point. But on we go. We remove the rockers, pushrods, and intake manifold...



Now its time for the heads. These are no joke. We used a torch with mapp gas along with a 3 foot breaker bar. There are 18 of them and none are easy to get off. But after some work they're off and they look good. Dirty, but good. Now for a look at the combustion chamber...



There is a little water in there. Probably from the pressure washer. Speaking of which its time to clean up again so we remove the oil pan, oil pump, and lifters and...


After a while of soaking ourselvs and eachother we get this...



And back to the teardown (see a pattern developing?). Now is the time. Out come the pistons, rods, crank, and cam. Crank looks great, so do the the pistons and rods. Most of the bearings look good but there are those few bad apples. Nothing too bad though. Cam is in desperate need of a re-grind but there is lots of material left. We tossed the small parts into a box so they can be taken to the parts cleaner.




What next? You guessed it...



With a clean block, still warm from the pressure washer, off it goes to the parts washer. After a few hours (one for the parts washer to warm up) it looks better then I had ever hoped.

Back in it goes for another 4-5 hours.

All in all, it came out good. After some new gaskets, seals, bearings, rings, and of course the cam, we should have a good little engine.
If you like this, wait til the rebuild. To be continued...

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 06-03-2007).]

By the way another usless fact...

4.9 lifters are identical to Harley twin cam lifters. If you cant find them anywhere else you can get them at your local harley shop for about 25 dollars a piece. 99-current Twin cam

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-08-2007).]

No interest at all? Maybe I wont do a build thread.

Always interest in a build thread for me. You never know when you can pick up a tip or two.

How much was it for all that you got? And, what exactly did you get? ECM? Wires?

I spent 203 dollars. Which included...

Engine, complete with all accessories and extra rocker cover
wiring harness, (engine, enginebay, and cabin harness cut at the doors, including auto dim mirror)
ecm
2.8 starter
2.8 alternator
2.8 heads (Phoenix on the forum took these)

I left the tranny there because I want a stick. They only wanted 100 bucks for it.

It was one of the best deals I have gotten in a while. This place is great on their prices. A couple weeks before I got a complete fastback conversion including tail lights, head light buckets and motors, sunroof weatherstriping, and various other odd and ends for 150 bucks. They warrenty their engines to work also or you can bring it back for refund or replacement. However its you pull everything (which I prefer so I can put it back together)

Any other questions?

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-08-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: No interest at all? Maybe I wont do a build thread.

You got my attention
Keep going .......and the more photos, the better!

I might do a 4.9 swap one day and it's great to have good references.

The rebuild of the engine will be done in a couple weeks. As soon as the parts come in. The block and such parts are being cleaned up right now. I have a memory card for the camera that holds 700+ pics. I will get as many as I can and go into alot more detail then the teardown. I figured anyone can tear apart a motor. Its puting it back together that is the fun part. I will detail the install shortly after that. I will also be doing the 11.26 brake upgrade along with KYB, lowering springs front, coilover rear, and poly all around. This will give some good info for those who are interested.

edit: I can take video also and will do so during some of the more confusing parts.

Anyone have anything in particular that they want to see pics or video of?

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-26-2007).]

Good stuff. I bought my car already done (mostly). It will be nice to see some of the internals in case I ever have to get into it.

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'85GT Indy clone 4.9 4T60E
'78 Toyota longbed, parts runner
'89 Bonneville daily driver
'87 30' Kit Classic TT, living in it.

Is the 4.9 aluminum block/iron heads? Also, is the trans bell housing bolt pattern a 60* or is it it's own design? I'd like to swap in another engine and have it as easy as possible. I was getting a 93 GA with the Quad4/auto in a couple days and wanted to use that engine for the swap after I get my used from the car. But have read it's hard to do. How easy is this 4.9 to swap in?

I will get lots of pics of the internals when I go to put it back together. I figured it would be better to get pics of clean parts so you all can see what is going on.

Yes the 4.9 is alluminum block/cast iron heads and an alluminum one piece intake. When I got it apart I was suprised that the block only weighed about 40 lbs by itself. I will get exact weights when I do the rebuild. The bell housing will accept any fiero tranny. You also have the option of using the caddy 4 speed auto tranny. From what I've heard it is an easy swap. If you decide to do it make sure you get 2 front rocker covers to avoid having to notch the deck-lid hinge. The rocker covers can be swaped side to side. I just picked up an extra front to make it easier. You will have to fab some motor mounts or possibly buy them from someone if you can find them. The hardest part is the wiring which is only lengthing and shortening some wires. I think you only have to add about 6. On the exhaust manifolds you have lots of choices. Most (if not all ) of the 4.1 and 4.5 manifolds will bolt on. There are also different ones depending on which model the car is (seville, deville, eldorado). If you want a stick you will have to buy/make/modify a flywheel to fit. You can use an 88 flywheel if you plug and redrill the holes to match the caddy crank. You can use 85-86 2.8 flywheel if you machine off the counterweight and have it rebalanced (this is what I have done, I have pics if anyone wants to see them). Or if you don't like any of those options you can buy one from several companies including LSC in california. They are about 225 and up. You will need to send them the flexplate as a bolt pattern for them to drill the holes. If you go with an auto the caddy tranny is a perfect choice. 91-95 are electronic shifted and will require the caddy ECM to shift it.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-13-2007).]

So it's best to find a junked Caddy that's been reared and take everything from it I take it?

If you can find an otherwise nice Caddy with a rear hit, they are the best. The junkyard was kind enough to start mine before they pulled it.

As for the Caddy trans, I used it on my swap, as I wanted to stay with an automatic, and the overdrive is nice. About 1900 RPM @ 70 MPH, and the gearing is matched to the torque curve of the engine. Not sure on the earlier models, but we've done two now, both 88's, and we had to notch the cradle to clear the transmission pan in a couple of places. Not a real big deal, just took another hour or so.

Fieroseverywhere....thanks for the pics and yes, we do appreciate the build thread. Keep us posted.

If you buy a junk yard caddy motor make sure you get the lowest mileage motor you can find. Make sure the hood is still on the car. If the hood is gone make sure the air cleaner assembly covering the motor is still on there. I can't stress this enough... If it looks like water got inside DON'T BUY IT. These motors have cast iron sleeves in the block. If you breath on them wrong they will rust. Once they are pitted they are useless. Even boreing .04 over and using northstar pistons and rings, (yes, they work) isnt enough to get past the pits. When using northstar pistons, use the 4.9 rods, and sleeves. We kept running into the problem that when pressure washing the sleeves they would start to rust before we got done washing all of them. Keep a towel/air gun handy and keep them dry. Dont remove them unless you have to. If you have to you will have to clean out the water jacket really good. If the owner ever used just water there will be calcium deposits everywhere. Yes, 4.9's hit from the back are perfect. Avoid 4.9's that have been hit in the front like the plauge. Most likely the exhaust manifold will be pushed into the block, cracking it. It doesn't take much of a hit either. If you find one that has been hit in the front you can pull some parts off of it. You know it was running when it got hit. Just avoid these blocks.

You only have to notch the 88 cradles. When using the caddy auto on an 84-87 you need only slot the tranny mounting bracket holes in the cradle 5/8 of an inch. This will move the tranny over and make everything fit great.

No question, there will be a build thread. The 4.9 rebuild will be next weekend (5/5-5/6). I will get tons of pics and probably start a new thread.

Any other questions?

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 10-06-2007).]

30 lbs! Wow, thats impressive!

How much do the heads and intake manifold weigh, though?

Manifold is alluminum also so it doesn't weigh much. Heads are cast iron and they are heavy. I will get and post exact weights next weekend during the rebuild. I want to document the rebuild and swap as best as possible because of the lack of documentation there is out right now. 30 lbs is an estimate but both heads were much heaver then the block so was the crank. It is easily carried by one person, in fact my dad was carrying it around easily and he is a small guy at 130 lbs soaking wet.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-27-2007).]

I'll keep an eye on it too as i have a '95 4.9 i'd like to put in one of my gt's someday.jesse

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http://new.photos.yahoo.com...94928804352716770/18

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: By the way another usless fact... 4.9 lifters are identical to Harley twin cam lifters. If you cant find them anywhere else you can get them at your local harley shop for about 25 dollars a piece. 99-current Twin cam

As far as I know, 4.9 lifters are the exact same lifters used on later model 305's and 350 chevys.

quote Originally posted by v8fiero400: As far as I know, 4.9 lifters are the exact same lifters used on later model 305's and 350 chevys.

Doesn't suprise me at all. GM is known for their part swaping. I just didn't reaslize that Harley used so many Gm parts. As soon as we got them out dad said "these look farmiliar". Then he dug around the shop and came up with a twin cam lifter. We took some measurments and yep, they are identical. I would love to have a parts interchange manual for the 4.9. Most of the time you can get the parts at better prices by using the part numbers from anything besides caddy. Thanks for the info.

[might as well upgrade the camshaft while yrou at it at least.. a simple camregrind really wakes up this motor in the top end.. delta cams makes a drop-in cam that doesnt require any valvetrain work, and it will net you liek a 30-40HP gain...

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: [might as well upgrade the camshaft while yrou at it at least.. a simple camregrind really wakes up this motor in the top end.. delta cams makes a drop-in cam that doesnt require any valvetrain work, and it will net you liek a 30-40HP gain...

I have been looking for the delta. I heard about it here on the forum (may have been one of your posts). If you know where to find it please, please, please share. Will the 4.1 or 4.5 cam work? I'll just give you a call later if that's ok with you. Thanks Aaron!

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-29-2007).]

Alright. I just spoke with Delta today and got me a new cam coming in the mail. It should be here on wednesday. I went ahead and bumped it up a little. I will post specs when it gets here for anyone who is interested. The greatest part is that the cam is less then I could get a new one anywhere else.

Got a new set of cam bearings off of Ebay for 16.50 to go along with it. The rest of the rebuild parts are ready to go for this weekend. We are a go for saturday. I will start a new post of the rebuild process for anyone who is interested.

Just want to make sure you cover what to do to make sure the sleeves are in right and don't leak. Mine is all apart right now as well. I might be a few weeks behind you, so please document this for the rest of us. How much was the delta cam, and what is their info on how to order it?

Thanks in advance
Darren

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Delta is a company out of Washington state that does custom cam re-grinds. I just called them up and they had a performance cam for the 4.9 available (previously re-ground). It is used with the stock valve train and computer. It cost me 190 including shipping which was better then I have seen anywhere else. There was also a 30 dollar core. Monsterpartsonline had an OE cam for 185+ shipping but delta is the only manufacturer that I have been able to find that does anything performance related plus it is 20-25 dollars cheaper total. I dont have any specs on it yet except 450 lift 203 diration that she gave me over the phone. I should have the cam and the specs for it by wednesday. There is a little more info here on this particular cam. I will re-post when I have more info then this. As for documentation I have 650 more pics available on my camera and will take lots.

By the way I removed my sleeves entirely and will go into detail on how to put them back in.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-01-2007).]

The cam already came in today. Thats less than 24 hours since I ordered it. Amazing service, quick shipping, and if you call soon the receptionist is also selling a fiero if anyone is interested.

The specs...

Hydrolic Roller BP568-1
.450 lift
203 duration

Their website is above and Phone number is in the site.

just a warning DO NOT try and do the cam bearings yourself . they are deck honed into place. and it is recomended not to touch them unless they are completly trashed , have a machine shop do these for you if you really need to do the bearings. everything else is fine to replace on these engines

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DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list

88 coupe t-top #656 1 of only 339 base coupes made FOR SALE
85 t-top BEING PARTED
87gt parts car
86 and 87 fiero database www.geocities.com/cwandall/fiero.html

Absolutely. The machine shop owner "owes" us one. He'll said he'd take care of it himself and make sure it is done right.

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Hylamar looks like some good stuff. Thanks. http://www.hylomar-usa.com/...&sitrackingid=672078

hylamar , and ALOT of assembly grease were the most important items when i redid my 4.9

Just as a referance. I will be re-building the motor here. http://www.doyleshd.com/ This is no driveway operation. It will be done the best it can be with all the proper tools. Its just too bad the dyno is only for bikes.



If you look in the gallery you will see a yellow sprint car. If you look closly at the teardown pics you will see something farmiliar. I also have some close up pics of the motor if anyone wants to see them. Stevenson race engines 680 HP na.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-01-2007).]

No rebuild this weekend. The parts will not be in till end of next week.

I will re-schedule for 5/19-5/20. I'm a little dissapointed but I will be able to gather more parts. SPEC stage 3 clutch is on its way (courtesy of MstangBware). GT gauges also on the way (courtesy of Fieromaster88). New cam bearings on the way (Ebay). Heads being ported/gasket matched as I type. Flywheel being re-drilled today.

If you want to see specific parts of the rebuild let me know and I will get extra pics for you.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-03-2007).]

I just wanted to interject... you should probably replace the pushrods with the ones referenced in my build thread ( https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/061613-6.html ). The Delta cam actually has .480 lift with the stock 1.6 ratio rockers and there (more than likely) will be play in the valvetrain if you don't use longer pushrods. Delta told me the cam was a drop-in until after I built the engine. I called them back and they said, oh yeah umm well actually we knew that some engines will require longer pushrods. Bud at Bud's Outback uses loger pushrods in every engine he builds with higher lift.

Thread looks good so far. Keep up the good work.

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-Rick Stewart
85GT 5.0CaddyV8/Getrag 5-spd
234HP and 304lb/ft at the wheels
www.V8Fiero.com

I remember reading about the problem you ran into with the cam. I have the part number for those pushrods written down so I can get them if needed. Do you see any problems with using the stock valve springs with this cam? I've gotten mixed answers on this question. thanks GT and I loved your performance rebuild thread. It was very helpful to me in getting this together.

Ya hoooooooooooo. The parts came in last night. They told me next week so that was a very nice suprise. As long as the cam bearings come in today, like they're suppose to, we will be able to start the rebuild this weekend. Keep your fingers crossed, I know I am.

It is not recomended that you replace the cam bearings. They are line bored at the factory and require special equipment to replace. When you take off the intake you will see a big warning on the cam bearing cover that says DO NOT REMOVE THIS COVER!! It's there for a reason.

I would definitely recommend stiffer valve springs. The valves will float if you rev it too high (which you might if you replace the stock cam). I also remember something about them binding at a relatively low lift. I used SBC dual coil springs. They require machining of the spring seats but there's no way the valves will float with the SBC dual coils installed.

We double checked the cam bearings and decide that they would work fine. So I did not bother to replace them. I have started a rebuild thread here if you are interested.

I do have an extra set of new standard size cam bearings if anyone is in need.

Thanks GT. I remember reading about it in your performance rebuild thread. We have a friend who is an engine builder and has the machine to line bore them but it wasn't needed so we didn't bother.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-08-2007).]