Hi Where can i get the glass piece that the xenon light are going in for a Fiero ? I ordered some but they sent me the 4x6 instead of the 5x7 that are on the Fiero's Do they exist first of all ? And how hard is it to install the xenon light?
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10:32 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jun 18th, 2008
Xanth Member
Posts: 6886 From: Massachusetts Registered: May 2006
Proper lighting requires proper optics. Many of the aftermarket sealed beams use designes that look good when off but do not adequetly focus the lights. Your lights may be brighter but may cause problems for oncoming drivers ad may not put enough light on the road! Look for wagner "ultra-bright". DOT approved and great optics.
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06:49 AM
Robert 2 Member
Posts: 2401 From: St Hubert Quebec Canada Registered: Jan 2006
I already bought the xenon kit all i need is the glass or plastic holder to stick them in like i said before i need the bigger than 6x4 Mean the ones same size as the regular Fiero's beams
[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 06-18-2008).]
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07:34 AM
Xanth Member
Posts: 6886 From: Massachusetts Registered: May 2006
I assume you mean a replacement headlight that uses an H4 bulb, and the Xenon kit is for that H4 socket? Then there are good and bad choices out there. Simply ask for the H4 upgrade for a H6054 or 6052. Some part stores carry them, all can order them if you talk to the right guy. Optics has two issues. First, when a housing is designed for a particular replacement bulb the exact location of the filament is defined. Xenons don't match that are very well. Technically, they can't, but that is a separate discussion. Secondly, there are Hella, then all the imitations. The Hella have the best pattern using a real H4, better than any sealed beam especially when you consider the wattage choices available. The JCW versions with a steel bucket and a fluted lens are pretty good. Avoid any that have no flutes in the glass lens. Avoid any that have angle flat sections making up the reflector side of the bucket. Lastly, there are many grades of Xenons. I personally don't consider most 'HID'. I do have some experience with the various flavors. Those that run at 80v or a little higher are a marginal improvement over high end halogens. Real HID's are up at 4800v, 12-14000v, and 24000v. the 24kv HID's by Hella are ~$800. The bulbs don't burn out. There are 4 in the fleet that have had no issue. By contrast the H4's last weeks to a few months, so I replace a few every week. The H4's in my car seem to last about 2 years for the 160/110W and longer for the lower wattages. Hope this helps a bit. Generally I agree that most Xenon kits suck if judged from inside the car, and worse for the oncoming car. Go regular H4.
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08:37 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I agree 100%. If you are concerned about low cost and lighting performance rather than bling, the Hella HL79567 is an exact (plug & play) replacement for the stock Fiero rectangular sealed beams. They will cost you about $85 a pair (order number H6054A), including the H4 halogen high/low beam bulbs ... a very good value. They're what I have installed on my Formula right now.
Here is a baseline low beam photo for comparison ... the Fiero's OEM Delco H6054 headlight, a rectangular 65/35 watt (h/l) halogen sealed beam lamp (rated ~800 lumens):
Here is a comparison photo of the Hella HL79567/H6054A low beam pattern (55 w, ~1200 lumens), taken under identical conditions:
As a final comment, I have to remind everybody that Xenon HID "conversion kits" are illegal anywhere in North America or Europe. There are many good reasons for this, some of which have already been mentioned in this thread.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-20-2008).]
Since you say that you already have the Xenon bulbs, I am assuming that what you want are the headlight reflectors. These are the glass/plastic housing that holds the bulb and reflects the light forward on to the road. Try the link below and see if this is what you need. These headlights are by Hella, they are not cheap, but you do get what you pay for. I have these headlights on my '88 GT and I absolutely love them. Plenty of light and they put out a nice light patten on the road in front of you.
Lastly, there are many grades of Xenons. I personally don't consider most 'HID'. I do have some experience with the various flavors. Those that run at 80v or a little higher are a marginal improvement over high end halogens. Real HID's are up at 4800v, 12-14000v, and 24000v. the 24kv HID's by Hella are ~$800.
I think you may be confusing ignition voltage with color temperature? They are two totally unrelated specifications.
All Xenon HID lamps for automotive use are arc lights, and as such they have a sustaining voltage of about 80 volts at a controlled constant current level, but they require a much higher ignition voltage ... in the ~4000 volt range. Any startup voltage higher than required to strike the initial arc is wasted. Once the initial arc is established in the lamp, the ballast reverts to constant-current mode at a voltage of ~80 volts.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-19-2008).]
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09:54 AM
PFF
System Bot
Robert 2 Member
Posts: 2401 From: St Hubert Quebec Canada Registered: Jan 2006
Since you say that you already have the Xenon bulbs, I am assuming that what you want are the headlight reflectors. These are the glass/plastic housing that holds the bulb and reflects the light forward on to the road. Try the link below and see if this is what you need. These headlights are by Hella, they are not cheap, but you do get what you pay for. I have these headlights on my '88 GT and I absolutely love them. Plenty of light and they put out a nice light patten on the road in front of you.
Since you say that you already have the Xenon bulbs, I am assuming that what you want are the headlight reflectors. These are the glass/plastic housing that holds the bulb and reflects the light forward on to the road. Try the link below and see if this is what you need. These headlights are by Hella, they are not cheap, but you do get what you pay for. I have these headlights on my '88 GT and I absolutely love them. Plenty of light and they put out a nice light patten on the road in front of you.
So what is the exact measurment for the one i have to order? width and length , that are the same as the Fiero ones . 7.875 is the overall width 200mm = 7 7 / 8 and height is ????????????? in inches it gives 5 1/2 , 5.500 or 139.7mm if it is the size they have . cause they only give the width 200mm no height . I wanna be sure i order the right one . Already been mislead .
I think you may be confusing ignition voltage with color temperature? They are two totally unrelated specifications.
All Xenon HID lamps for automotive use are arc lights, and as such they have a sustaining voltage of about 80 volts at a controlled constant current level, but they require a much higher ignition voltage ... in the ~4000 volt range. Any startup voltage higher than required to strike the initial arc is wasted. Once the initial arc is established in the lamp, the ballast reverts to constant-current mode at a voltage of ~80 volts.
Yes, totally different. There are different voltages, just like commercial halides vs grow lights. The ones I mentioned are 24000 Volts on a 24 volt system feed by perhaps 18 gauge wire and are factory equipment. I've never seen one burn out yet. Most of the market are the 85v volt ones you describe. I don't know what these drop to, I'm just real impressed with them. I have however read of a few factory system running at voltages higher then 85v, for sure, mostly German made, That should extend life and lower draw. Surely most all kits are based on a common 3rd party bulb, the 85v.
So what is the exact measurment for the one i have to order? width and length , that are the same as the Fiero ones . 7.875 is the overall width 200mm = 7 7 / 8 and height is ????????????? in inches it gives 5 1/2 , 5.500 or 139.7mm if it is the size they have . cause they only give the width 200mm no height . I wanna be sure i order the right one . Already been mislead .
Relax it's not that difficult.
The easiest way is to call Susquehanna Motorsports.
Tell that that you're looking for a replacement headlight for you Fiero which normally uses an H6054 Sealed Beam headlight. And tell them that you were looking at the Hella conversion headlight but you are not exactly sure which headlight is correct for your Fiero. They will be more than happy to help you and make sure that you get the correct headlight.
I have done business with the compay off and on over the past few years and I have always found them to be good to do business with, polite, and knowledgeable.
~Bob
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02:24 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
So what is the exact measurment for the one i have to order? ... I wanna be sure i order the right one .
Bob is right. Plus, I already posted the exact part number (H6054A) to use when ordering the Hella H4 headlights from Susquehanna Motor Sports, a well known vendor. To be crystal clear, HL79567 is the part number for one bare headlight assembly without a bulb, and H6054A is for a set of two headlight assemblies with H4 bulbs. These are ECE-standard headlamps, but they should be 100% legal in Canada.
What more do you need?
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-20-2008).]
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09:20 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
There are different voltages, just like commercial halides vs grow lights. The ones I mentioned are 24000 Volts on a 24 volt system feed by perhaps 18 gauge wire and are factory equipment ...
As far as I know, there are only eight HID bulb types approved for automotive use in North America, Europe, and Japan. Their designators are in the form D<n><x>, where <n> is a number, 1 through 4, and <x> is a letter, either 'R' or 'S' (e.g. D1R, D2S, etc.):
D => "Discharge" (arc) lamp <n> = 1 => bulb contains mercury, ignitor electronics integral with lamp base <n> = 2 => bulb contains mercury, external ignitor electronics <n> = 3 => mercury-free bulb, ignitor electronics integral with lamp base <n> = 4 => mercury-free bulb, external ignitor electronics <x> = R => optical shield applied to bulb, for use with conventional optics <x> = S => unshielded bulb, for use with projector-type optics
The D1<x> and D2<x> bulbs are "first generation" and they are still by far the most common. The D3<x> and D4<x> are "second generation" bulbs with slightly different electrical characteristics due to the different internal chemistry, but all eight bulb types are the same wattage (35 W) and have essentially the same light output (R => 2800 lumens, S => 3200 lumens). The system supply voltage (12 V or 24 V) is determined by the electronic ballast used, not by the bulb type. For reference, here is a data sheet for the most widely used bulb, the D2S:
Note that the absolute maximum startup (ignition) voltage is 23 kV and maximum startup power is 75 W for up to 1.3 seconds, but the sustaining voltage is 85 +/- 17 V and the continuous operating power level is 35 +/- 0.3 W. Light output is strictly a function of power level, although it will diminish somewhat as the bulb ages due to extended operation.
For completeness, I have seen gray-market ballasts advertised that claim to output more than 35 watts (up to 50 W), and I possess a data sheet for a ballast from a well-known German manufacturer that offers user-variable power output from 25 W to 40 W. However, to the best of my knowledge, anything higher than 35 W is prohibited by the regulatory standards in North America, Europe, and Japan.
If you have a data sheet on an HID lamp with significantly different electrical or optical characteristics, I'd like to see it. I'm always learning.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-20-2008).]
good info Marvin. Obviously my info has been gained through osmosis and could use some clarification.
Our discussion has moved outside the question that looks to be answered. I'd still be inclined to stick with a standard H4, or a higher wattage clear bulb.
I'm gone from the shop (80 miles up the mountain) for the weekend but do have a 2005 Hella book here:
They list 200mm, yes, HB3 or 9003 bulbed as #72207 new #003427291 As far as I know the bulb designation is simply a legal wattage H4.
Also listed are 200mm H4 high/low #72200 New #003427811 for off road only H4. The lens does look a little different and I know these can handle the high watt H4's without melting anything, except improper wiring of course....
The lights I mentioned appear to a mounted version of the AS 200 Xenon work lights with integrated ballast :24V w/ AMP conn., long range #90680 New #H15142041 The replacement bulb list 42 watts. Obviously not street legal.
So now I have a question. As said I have a bias against the 'Xenon' kits out there for medium money. Do they last? Does the external ballast stay alive for the life of the system?
I ask because I have a set of the Hella 7" round from my ex-74 Grand Am that I've been burning to put on my bike. Yes, nuts, unless you understand the nature of a BMW GS. I would entertain a conversion to a ballast spark system simply to avoid the 22A draw. I can't yet bring myself to pay for a pair of AS 200's.
Marvin, I meant to mention but am sure you caught it.. 42 watts falls outside the bulb spec you posted. So there are some others out there. Surely these should not be considered for primary lighting. They are factory aux lights on park cats which is as off road as off road gets...
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11:57 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I'd still be inclined to stick with a standard H4 ... clear bulb.
I agree 100%.
quote
So now I have a question. As said I have a bias against the 'Xenon' kits out there for medium money. Do they last? Does the external ballast stay alive for the life of the system?
I presume that you are asking about the gray-market kits widely sold on eBay and coming primarily from China. Virtually all of the ballasts in these kits are unlicensed clones of the third generation ballasts designed by Hella and manufactured in Europe by both Hella and Philips, and the lamps in the kits are rebased versions of Chinese-made D2S capsules. I have sampled one such gray-market kit (even though it may, or may not, have been technically illegal to import) for testing, but I have never installed it in a car ... not even for "off road" use. I have previously posted some of the results of my bench testing elsewhere on PFF. That said, one of the Chinese-clone ballasts failed after less than an hour of operation on the bench, and ... funniest thing ... the cost of shipping a warranty replacement from China would have been higher than the total cost of the entire kit. I have since done a lot of testing with a used OEM ballast manufactured in Europe by Valeo, with no problems whatsoever. Of course, YMMV ... but Caveat Emptor still applies.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-20-2008).]
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12:40 PM
Robert 2 Member
Posts: 2401 From: St Hubert Quebec Canada Registered: Jan 2006
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