I am about to use Rodney's drill jig on my 3.4 and I was wondering if anyone is interested in having it covered - with pics.

Rodney's instruction are great, but there are no real photos. I did a search here and didn't find anything, either.

Just let me know and I will post the pics/info here. I should have it done by the end of the weekend.

Thanks!

Any pics are welcome to help out! I'm still thinking of going 3.4.. So I wouldn't mind to see what may lie ahead. =)

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I am about to use Rodney's drill jig on my 3.4 and I was wondering if anyone is interested in having it covered - with pics.

Saxman, I think that is an excellent idea, and one likely to be quite helpful to those who wouldn't necessarily know what you're trying to accomplish with Rodney's jig kit, as well as to those who do (alluded to by the title of your thread here).

Regardless of whether or not one already knows it has to be done for a 3.4L engine block swap into a Fiero, switching the location of the starter from the side of the donor 3.4L engine block where it was originally mounted to the opposite side --- by drilling holes in the 3.4 engine block --- can sound like a very daunting task just fraught with potentially very expensive mistakes.

Before I even started my 3.4L swap, I almost ruled it out just because I and others I know were so apprehensive (unjustifiably, I now know) about this starter relocation issue, so much so that while it's funny now, it certainly wasn't funny then.

I would think your photo-supported "How-To" thread which you've proposed would greatly help to alleviate the reservations that some others also may be having about this starter relocation issue with the 3.4L engine block.

Will do! I'll use Cliff's "VBook" so that this can be printed without all the extraneous conversation -just the facts for carrying out to your garages. (Just click the "print VBook" text at the top of the page. For more on the VBook usage, see https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum5/HTML/000121.html )

I'll start with the before pics of the engine, then show it with the oil pan removed so the jig will fit in place. First, here is the donor car waiting to be stripped and go to the salvage yard. So sad she had to be sacrificed, but did I mention that it is a 1,500-mile Jasper remanufactured 3.4? I got the car for $500 from the kid who paid $5600 to have the engine installed by his dealer, then wrecked it. I pulled the engine and sold the rest of the car for $500 - so, no cost. Wahoo!!



Here is the complete engine before all the accessories were removed. (These pics won't show up on the VBook version since they are not needed for instructional purposes)





Per Rodney's instructions, first you have to remove the oil pan and clean off all the gasket material. I wanted to be sure not to get any of that stuff in my engine, so I removed the oil pan and scraped the gasket material while the engine was still upright. That kept all the leftover oil (after draining it) in the pan.

Sidenote - and not important if you have all the parts to your "Rodney" kit: I am using a "used" Rodney Dickman relocation jig - and it came with a broken 8.5mm (the smaller) drill bit. I can't seem to find an 8.5mm drill bit, but the package on the titanium bit I just bought says 21/64 is equal to 8.4mm so I'll have to give that one a shot. I looked up the actual metric conversion and it comes to 8.3344mm, but I think I can hold the drill verticle-enough to make this work. This smaller bit makes the hole that will actually be tapped out with threads so I was a bit worried about the tap working properly - but all went well and the bolts fit great. FYI - The larger drill bit cuts the countersink (smooth part in the hole before you get to the threaded part) which is important in making the starter bolts the correct length.

Next, I flipped the engine to start placing the jig. Here is a shot that includes the left side where the old starter was mounted (those old long bolts are still there) and the area on the right side where the new starter will go. Notice that the old starter had offset holes. The new one will have even holes side by side. Also, be sure that the second open hole from the left is directly above the boss (extra block material for drilling such tapped holes) which sticks out below. Mine seems to be to the right of center, but I think it will be fine.



You can see in the pics that my engine stand uses the bolt hole needed for Rodneys jig, so I simply loosened the engine stand bolt, slid Rodneys side piece in along with the supplied washer, and bolted the stand back on so all would be secure during the drilling.



and bolted up



Here is the overhead view. You can clearly see the "D" marking the side for the initial drilling. Be sure the "D" faces you when you are standing in front of the engine.



More to come as I start drilling tomorrow. Gotta find my oil! Go ahead and try the VBook feature. It's pretty cool!

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 06-28-2008).]

I'll post pics of the final drilling and tapping tonight, but It turns out that the smaller bore drill bit I replaced makes the main threaded hole and the larger one just makes the counter-bore. I didn't realize that, but when I tapped it out, everything worked just fine and it tapped out easily.

I may have left the larger counter-bore drill bit a bit longer than 4" thus making the counter-bore a little deeper, but I will measure to make sure the counter-sink is between .450 and .500" per Rodney's directions.

So, more to come tonight! Good news is that mine is DONE!

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 06-28-2008).]

So, as I mentioned - the drilling and tapping was successful. Now I just need to get the starter off the engine that is in my Formula to test the fit. Once I do, I'll show how to adjust the height of the starter so it hits the flywheel/flexplate just right.

Back to the install:

Once the jig is in place, be sure to cover your open engine and tape the cover down to keep all these metal shavings away from the inside of your 3.4. Also, be sure to stuff rags into the exhaust openings since the shavings will fall right on the front opening. No sense in risking shavings getting in that way, either. They go everywhere! (you can see the towel stuffed in the exhaust ports two photos down)

As you can see in the next photo, I have started drilling. The key here is to use the 2nd and 4th open holes from the left - and I used lots of 3-in-1 oil which lubed the jig and kept the shaving wet so they didn't fly out so far. Again, be sure that the second open hole is above the boss because you will be drilling right through that boss. Rodney suggests using light pressure with high RPM's to best cut into the block - and that worked great for me. So, here is the drill in the 4th open hole



Here it is coming through the bottom of Rodney's jig and into the block. Remember - lots of re-oiling! Because of the angle of the block, light pressure here will save your drill bit!



Here is the 2nd open hole being drilled out. There was less of a mess on this one since the shavings could only come out the top - and the oil kept most of them in place on top of the jig.



A sample of the shavings after only going halfway through the 4th opening:



Here, we are left with two new holes. You don't have to, but I removed the taped down cover and cleared the shavings before I flipped the jig over. I put the jig back on, put down another cover and taped it down for drilling - round two. Make sure you cover the open engine area good!



Now, flip the jig over so that the letter "T" is facing you and bolt it down just as you did the first time. You're going to drill the 2nd and 4th open holes again. Before you do, place the larger drill bit in your chuck so that exactly 4" of bit is sticking out. Then, place the provided spacer over the drill bit. This will keep your bit from going too deep into each hole, thus setting the counter-bore holes to the proper depth. The final depth should be between .450" and .500".



Again, be sure to oil it every few seconds of drilling. Remember - light pressure with your highest speed is the best way to go through the block - and YES, you do go all the way through on both holes so the shavings can be removed.

Now, leave the jig in place and get the tap ready. The outer hole tapped out very easy. I went down as far as I could (through the jig) before starting on the inner hole. We'll come back to finish tapping this outer one later.



Tapping the inner hole took a bit longer because the handles on my tap hit the oil pickup. I simply gave the tap a quarter-turn, then released the handle to regrip the tap and give it another quarter-turn. When the tap gripper got down to the jig, I used pliers to carefully back it out to remove it.



Now it's time for the next step - removing the jig to finish the tap. Clean up as best you can without disturbing the taped down protective cover. It should stay in place until the tapping is done.

Here is the tap in the inner hole - same quarter-turn procedure:



and here it is on the outer - I just went in until the threads on the tap disappeared.



Be sure to clean up as best you can before removing the protective cover. Remove it carefully so that no shavings fall in the engine. Once I wiped everything down, I used a shop vac to clean up the block including the front area around the cam cover. I don't think shavings will hurt anything in this area (since there is no good way to keep them from falling there) but I vacuumed it all out so there was nothing that could find its way into the block.

Here, all is cleaned up and the two tapped holes are ready for some starter bolts.



and here they are - side by side instead of staggered like the Camaro starter was





I'll show how to mount and check the starter position as soon as I get to it. More to come!

Nice, I've always wondered what people were talking about when they were referring to the starter re-drill issues they were having.

--Allen

Very cool, thanks for the pics Saxman this will take a lot of the guess work out.

can't wait to see the rest of the build.

I guess I'll document the rest of the install on my "Saxman's Formula Engine Replacement" thread at https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087543.html . I'm ordering Rodney's 1988 A/C adapter brace and the oil fitting (if I find that I can't use my old one). I also need some gaskets for the oil pan, valve covers, timing cover and water pump. I already have the 88 flexplate, of course.

Once I figure out how to cut off the corner of the block (yup - an automatic) and beat in the oil pan a little, I should be GOOD TO GO!

Cheers!

when i get my 3.4block, how much would you charge to drill my holes? :X that sounded SOOO wrong...

p.s. what part of MD are you in anyway? southern md could be alot of places :P

[This message has been edited by hookdonspeed (edited 06-29-2008).]

quote Originally posted by hookdonspeed: when i get my 3.4block, how much would you charge to drill my holes? :X that sounded SOOO wrong... p.s. what part of MD are you in anyway? southern md could be alot of places :P

You'll need a jig because I am sending it off to o2usa tomorrow for his 3.4. I'd be glad to help if you find a jig. I'm down in Waldorf, but I travel up to Reisterstown at least once a month.

waldorf isnt that far from my work, well not realy that close either
but i used to drive to lusby from essex every wekeend, and right now im going from dundalk to laurel, so driving to waldorf isnt that far :P
but not having a garage anymore is getting to me

quote Originally posted by Saxman:. Once I figure out how to cut off the corner of the block (yup - an automatic) and beat in the oil pan a little, I should be GOOD TO GO! Cheers!

PLEASE do not beat dents in your oil pan!
Modify the motor mount. It only takes a little bit of metal removal and is easy to do.
Check in Sardonyx's 3.4 thread. I have pics and description in there.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 06-29-2008).]

quote Originally posted by randye: PLEASE do not beat dents in your oil pan! Modify the motor mount. It only takes a little bit of metal removal and is easy to do. Check in Sardonyx's 3.4 thread. I have pics and description in there.

pfft, whats the fun in that?

quote Originally posted by randye: PLEASE do not beat dents in your oil pan! Modify the motor mount. It only takes a little bit of metal removal and is easy to do. Check in Sardonyx's 3.4 thread. I have pics and description in there.

Thanks, Randye,

I'll take a look and see if it involves the oil pan on an '88. If so, I'd rather not beat on the pan (sorry, Hooked) because with my luck, I'll knock something loose and have to put a 4th engine in there!

awww, but everyone knows a BFH is the # 1 tool used by mechanics!

I got to use that when I pulled the 3.4 out of the Camaro! Little did I know that those engines come out the bottom, too! Damn...

BTW, Sardonyx247 had some good pics on how to do the starter relocation without the jig over at https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...ML/041835-2.html#p72

I picked up the oil pan and timing cover gaskets today at Advance (Felpro). I think I have all the other gaskets except maybe the one that goes between the upper and lower intakes. I guess I'll have to get the whole set if I find that I don't have it.

More to come!

Can the AC pump be used from the 3.4?

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