A friend of mine told me with 100% certainty that the bolt pattern was correct for a 3800SC, so that pretty much settles it in terms of bolting up. I have the opportunity now to take measurements off of the G6 6spd and I was wondering what I should be looking for. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated and if anyone wants certain dimensions to be taken for them, no problem.

Thanks!

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Christian Thomas
87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd

Next Mod: Holley Stealth Ram, late spring/summer

Probably the most crutial measurement would be from the bellhousing face (where it mounts to the block) to the outter-most point on the case. This measurement will give the width of the tranny and let us know if the frame rail will need to be cut like the WCF NSX 6 speed install... If the tranny isn't too wide and the frame rail doesn't need to be cut then this baby might be the perfect modern tranny for the fiero.

I'm excited to see the measurements

I want to see pics
I also want to know what diam the axels are? They must be massive.
Were are the tranny/motor mounts? Are they like the Fiero?
Were are the shift cables? would they be in the way of our mid mounted orienation? They are front drive trannies so the shift cables go the wrong way, we will need to adapt them to go the other way. That could be a problem with the exhaust?
Does it have a wire harness to tell the PCM what gear it is in or the usual speedo and revers lights?
There is no doubt about it, this tranny is huge. You will need to cut the frame to fit it in a Fiero. The stock Fiero tranny is VERY close to the frame rail.
Thanks

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I'll check on pics, but I highly doubt it, though. I'll get to look either today or tomorrow. Thanks guys

I thought the G6 only comes in a 4 speed auto and a 4speed manual auto shift

Four-speed electronically controlled automatic transmission with overdrive (standard on 6-cylinder)
Four-speed electronically controlled automatic transmission with overdrive, includes manual shift mode (standard on GT)

the 2006 GTP model will offer a 3.9 v6 with a 6 speed manual tranny.

Correct, The Aura, there are a few here and that's what I'm gonna take a look at.

Monday is the day. If anyone wants certain, specific measurements, let me know.

I would be interested in measurements as well, espesially if it doesn't invovle frame cutting. Any idea on gear ratios?

thanks
Matt

I know the final drive is 3.55. That's lower than our Getrags, so I'm really interested to see the ratios.

I believe that the 6 speed manual transmission for the Pontiac G6 will be manufactured in Russelsheim Germany by the recent Fiat-GM Powertrain Division. It is called the F40 or F40-6. It is currently being used on certain Saab, Opel and future Fiat models. The attached picture is the F40-6 tranny with what I believe is a Saab belhousing.

I translated a german document from a big wig responsible for the F-40 who stated the following when asked.

"What is the most important innovation with the new F40 Transmission from your view?"
"With the project F40 we had put ambitious goals regarding quality, robustness, torque capacity, adjustableness and low noises. One of the most important innovations is the selected building method for 400 Nm torque capacity. With a transmission length of 352 mm and an axle base between entrance wave and drift at the Differenzial of 197 mm we created one of the most compact and lightest six-course transmissions on the market. With this strategy we achieve a very high flexibility with application in the most different vehicle platforms of OPELS, Saab and the Fiat company. Because you consider: The fitting space for transmissions is particularly available with vehicles with front wheel drive and crosswise inserted engines only very limited."

So there you go - 352mm wide with 400Nm (293ft/lbs) torque

Just looking at that pic, I'm guessing the 352mm is in addition to the clutch housing.

Still...

it has three shafts inside, that will make it VERY short compared to the typical 5 speed trannies.

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quote Originally posted by Raydar: Just looking at that pic, I'm guessing the 352mm is in addition to the clutch housing. Still...

If so, with that width then its a pretty minimal frame rail trim that must be done to instal this tranny, if any!

I went out to my 88 for a rough measurement of my Muncie-Getrag 282 tranny. It's somewhere between 340 and 350 mm's. The F40 with a length of 352 mm's should fit in the cradle without any problem. The F40 is showing alot of potential.

Here are the ratios (scroll down to the FGP Germany F40(MT2) :

http://www.media.gm.com/division/powertrain/index.html

First gear overall ratio is 13.4 - ouch!
The isuzu has a overall ratio of 2.4 in 5th. This has a 2.2 overall in 6th.

I will still take one!

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-31-2005).]

so what are we talking here for shifting points, you know mph and all

maybe they might change it with the 3900? shouldn't be a slouchy motor heard it was supposed to be something like 240/240, 240/280 not sure what is final.

I'll snatch one brand new if I have too hmm nevermind guess it'll have about the same shifting points as the 282 if I'm not mistaken.

ok used a calculator know these aren't accurate, gives me some sort of idea not unless someone has this stuff figured out.

G6 Tranny
6000 RPM
1st 31
2nd 58
3rd 89
4th 128
5th 155
6th 190

282
6000 RPM
1st 33
2nd 57
3rd 84
4th 123
5th 161

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http://formula.cryptnix.com

[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 01-31-2005).]

this tranny is perfect

screen shot of my spreadsheet comparison (tire size set to 225/45/17 redline set to 7000 for my tdc)

WOW a 230mph top speed.... if you have the power to pull it.

I wonder how the shift cables and axles will adapt to the fiero.... also it doesn't appear to have a external slave mount.... does is use a hydraulic t.o. bearing?

quote Originally posted by The Aura: WOW a 230mph top speed.... if you have the power to pull it. I wonder how the shift cables and axles will adapt to the fiero.... also it doesn't appear to have a external slave mount.... does is use a hydraulic t.o. bearing?

I'm more thrilled about the 2000 rpm cruising speed ie better gas milage

oh yeah that too... seems like this tranny has it all... I hope everything works out with it.

352mm = just under 14 inches sorry, just had to look it up immediately.

wow, what an option, it feels like christmas is gonna be here soon!
lots of "+" on this page.
with all that "adaptability" maybe there will be final drive and or first gear options too!

I got measurements and I'm working up an image for everyone to see. Where these transmissions are located, I can go back and get more measurements whenever I want. My next task is to find the guy in charge of the MT2 at the plant.

Wheres E-F?

Um, ignore E-F, that was extraneous.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: this tranny is perfect screen shot of my spreadsheet comparison (tire size set to 225/45/17 redline set to 7000 for my tdc)

can you please email me a copy of that program too Fish1042@email.com? I have a version of it, but i don't think that mine is as accurate as yours, as your cruising RPM's are different than the ones i have, that, and mine does not say what RPM you will be at in the next gear, so that would be nice for me as well.

back onto topic, I am very excited about this transmission. If anyone wants a good idea of how short first gear is, go drive a DOHC 5 spd saturn, they have almost the exact same overall ratio. I see a lot of potential with this transmission.

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: can you please email me a copy of that program too Fish1042@email.com? I have a version of it, but i don't think that mine is as accurate as yours, as your cruising RPM's are different than the ones i have, that, and mine does not say what RPM you will be at in the next gear, so that would be nice for me as well. back onto topic, I am very excited about this transmission. If anyone wants a good idea of how short first gear is, go drive a DOHC 5 spd saturn, they have almost the exact same overall ratio. I see a lot of potential with this transmission.

1st gear would be a stump pulling gear witht he 3800sc and most v8's but great for anything that revs - its not quite as short as the 4.10 4speeds 1st gear

I sent you the excel file - the rpm drop and such were aditions I made - the second sheet contains a few wheel sizes and their corresponding circumfrence as well as the redline rpm -

guess it goes to show the G6 GXP/GTP won't have any balls down low so sad. I actually thought they might've had something good going.

quote Originally posted by LoW_KeY: guess it goes to show the G6 GXP/GTP won't have any balls down low so sad. I actually thought they might've had something good going.

depends.. the huge rpm drop when shifting to 2nd gear would seem to indicate using an engine with low end torque

if you rev up to 5500rpm in first then shift to second you drop below 3000rpm

not even the isuzu does that - and people that swapped it into their 2.8 complained about it (i had it on my 3.4 and loved it)

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 02-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by LoW_KeY: guess it goes to show the G6 GXP/GTP won't have any balls down low so sad. I actually thought they might've had something good going.

Actually, my guess is this... If you look at the Cobalt SS trans, it's overall first gear is a 15.6 (which is freaking crazy). My thought's on this are that they are hoping to make the first gear so short, that the tires will spin for a very short time, and once you get into second, it will be harder to spin them. that's just my guess though

Man I think I will love that tranny in my 88 with the S* The 4T65E dont even shift into 2nd till about 55mph I hate that. It needs another gear for better off the line heck snapping on ramp murging..well you get the point

My thoughts on this now are 1) mounts (there are mounting points at B and L) 2) shift cable length 3) cable brackets 4) axles. I'll be able to find out the axle size as soon as I bring in a micrometer or stumble on the paperwork. Pretty much everything else is going to be fabbed and I'm hoping that Rodney might pop in on this as we all know he is THE transmission bracket guy! I'm going to be talking with the resident transmission guys at some point soon, so I'm also going to try to find out if they have any idea of what this transmission will run OEM from a dealership.

Oh, also, gotta figure out the slave issue as well as the TO bearing...

[This message has been edited by CTFieroGT87 (edited 02-01-2005).]

Thanks for all your leg work on this 6speed info...a "+" for ya~

quote Originally posted by Tigger II: So there you go - 352mm wide with 400Nm (293ft/lbs) torque

is it just me or does it look like they counter weighted the shift lever

It appears that it is counterweighted, I know my friend's VW 5speed is counterweighted and it down't shift too bad.

CTFieroGT87 - Do you have access to a digital camera? Without getting in trouble, could you take some snap shots of the the tranny from different angles?

quote Originally posted by LoW_KeY: G6 Tranny 6000 RPM 1st 31 2nd 58 3rd 89 4th 128 5th 155 6th 190 282 6000 RPM 1st 33 2nd 57 3rd 84 4th 123 5th 161

How do you figure? The final drive on the 282 is 2.6 and the final drive on the G6 is 3.55. Therefore the G6 shouldn�t obtain as high a speed as the 282.

Here�s my calculation using 215 60 R15 rear tires.

G6 (mph) at 6000 rpm
1, (21)
2, (38)
3, (59)
4, (82)
5, (103)
6, (126)

282 (mph)
1, (36)
2, (61)
3, (90)
4, (132)
5, (173)

This G6 transmission is for use with a low power motor.

If you want to check my work here�s my formula for the G6 first gear.
-Tires are 79 inches circumference therefore 79 inches travel per revolution
-first gear is 3.77 times 5.73 (final gear) = 21.6 input revolutions per output revolution

(6000 engine rotations / min) x (one transmission output rotations / 21.6 engine rotations) x (79 inches / transmission output rotations) x (60 min / hour) x (one mile / 63 360 inches) = 21 miles / hour

Aaron

.

Edit:
Unless by final drive what they really meant to say was final gear, then you are closer except first gear would be an 8.3 final gear ratio. That�s way too big, first gear would be good up to 54 mph and that doesn�t sound right at all. It would be like starting is second all the time.

[This message has been edited by aaron88 (edited 02-07-2005).]

hmmm, someone check the math, i'm curious and can't add worth a crap.
that first gear, does look ridiculously short however.

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1986 Pontiac Fiero GT
Auto, soon to be 5 spd Getrag from 88 z24, Best 1/4 = 16.1 at 83mph, mods, wires, CRX intake, and power pulley. Planning Turbo 2.8 swap for a little more umph!!!!

Bought for 2500$ Canadian.

kohburn lists the 282 final drive as 3.61, not 2.6.
im no expert, but in know my 282 is closer to 4.11 than it is to 2.6 final.
my first gear is almost useless.