WARRNING: This is my first BUILD THEAD if you have any questions feel free to ask im good at cars bad at fourm, so i might forget to add need to know info thank you.
here is everything you will want to know about the 3.4l OHV swap yes almost every thing will swap over just fine from your 2.8l OHV that comes stock.i have lots of pictures and a atempt to install a T45 twin ballbering turbo in the car LOL looks sweet but has a SMALL problem so feel free to coment. . . . THE SWAP WAS DONE BY ME AND ONE OF MY GOOD FRIENDS RANDY............................. THANKS RANDY
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 01-02-2008).]
T45 at what trim? what was the turbine specs? from my first looks you have the wrong turbo for that engine unless you have a really tight trim or a hybrid with a smaller turbine on it.
Every map I have with standard trim on a T45 shows you run way outside the efficiency islands at pressures the 3.4 can handle safely, and even go outside the surge line on a couple maps during spool-up. I need some details on the turbo to make sure I'm looking at the right maps for what you are using.
That's a turbo used for big V8 engines like the Toyota tundra.
here are the pictures this is a remaned long block crate swap so its a little differant then the junkyard swap if you got any questions let me know this took about 3 weeks but could be done faster with less mods and no waiting for parts. i think my total cost so far is 7000.00 lots of mods could be done for under 3000.00 the sock engine getting tore down the 2.8l almost striped the rebuilt long block from atk in california, i cleaned the the engine acitone and painted it aluminum the fiero intake also cleaned and painted, looking good the rebuilt engine didnot come with an oil pickup and the stock fiero ia smaller then the 3.4l here you can see the differance better
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 12-30-2007).]
on the left the fiero oil pump bottom on the rite the 3.4l i had to get a 3.4l pickup luckly a friend had one a little farther along no problems yet every thing swaps rite over ok one problem i bought 2.8l injectors when i needed 3.4l the differance of 2# per hour the 2.8 uses 15lb and the 3.4 uses 17lb here is the first problem the gasket set that was sent with the engine was for a 94 camaro so i had to get a fiero oil pan gasket here is that oil pickup i had to get and if you look at the bottom rite you can see the bolt holes that have to be drilled for the starter rodney's sells a jig for this thay works. ah yes the valve cover looks good all painted and rebrushed but try to keep the stock rubber gasket they are hard to find because i knew that i was moing the exaust i got a larger oil filter for better oil flow the adabter plate under it is for a chevy cavalier and it is for a turbo aplacation the filter does not require this. this is the crank sensor hole on the rite side of the engine this is the cam sensor hole located by the thermostat im not running a dis setup so i pluged these holes with a 3/4in freez plug a 88 282 5spd a upgrade by the prevous owner i cleaned with a rotory steel brush on a multi speed drill and the washed with acitone then painted universal red like the valve covers. the engine cradle torn down front polly tranny mount polly engine mount rear polly tranny mount the engine dampaner this one still had life in it. the wcf polly dogbone front aluminum cradle mounts here you can see the red polly A arm bushings here are the rear aluminum cradle bushings i would recomend these to any one they can be a pain to get lined up but there worth it the rear sway bar 1in the install was easy and well worth it a wcf stage 3, 9-11/16in, kevlar/kevlar clutch and flywheel. the fly wheel from the fiero will not work unless you have a 88 just a close up of the cluch remember to keep this and your flywheel super clean, i cleaned the flywhell and pressure plate with rubbing alcohol and never tuch the cluch pads with your hands. i got the blaster coil to find out that you have to drill out the rivets on the old coil to get the mounting plates. while i was waiting on my headers to come i installed the ultamate shift kit from rodney's, also you might want to get a top end gasket kif as well for the fiero 2.8 cause agin the 3.4l comes with the camaro gaskets the spark plug wires are accel make your own 8mm they work great. it was hard to find the covers that go over the wireing harness untill you go into a electrical suply store they sell it by the foot but only in black clutch slave cly installed dogbone installed a closser look at the coil and my big mastake trying to get the turbo setup out of the car do not do looks good though installing engine back into the car man thoughs headers look good, and you can see the return line for the turbo you have to know where to put this or you will burn your turbo up my custom coilover setup on a kyb strut more install never clean the crap off you distributor or you will have to buy a new one like i did, i think the new one is way better anyway when i foud out the turbo wouldent fit under the hood the mileage at the time of swap
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 12-31-2007).]
ok picture coments the oil pick up was differant so i had the old one resurfaced and installed it. a 88 nutural flywheel is needed. i used 3/4 bolt in freez plugs to plug up the sensor locations on the 95 block. i used the starter kit from rodnydickmans to drill the starter relocation hole and a new starter with shims, shims are a needed item. make sure u get injectors for the 3.4l engine they are 17lbs the fiero uses 15lbs i used the 3.8 injectors to help with the added boost 19lbs i belive. the engine dampaner is not a direct swap only 2 of the 3 bolts that hold it to the engine are there. i had to drill out a bolt hole to match the tranny. i had to buy the fiero oil pan gasket intake manifold gaskit set and the themostat gasket the remaned engine came with the wrong ones oh save your valve cover gaskets i dont know how hard they are to find but they dont give u new ones and the fiero valve covers a fiero only part. everything else was a direct swap.
things i sujest replacing while you have the engine out distrubutor water pump coil broken or cracked vacume lines starter altanator wireing harnes cover and any spliced or burned wires thermostat header bolts engine and tranny mounts dogbone clutch
the turbo was not installed it did not fit in the car was way to big i would fit if i stuffed it in the trunk but i did not want to do that. i am getting a smaller turbo most likely a t4 or t3/t4. i went with a larger oil filter you can see the part # i removed the airconditioning i dont want it on the car
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-23-2007).]
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11:15 PM
Oct 24th, 2007
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
I also recomend you replace the rear main seal too. That turbo would be way too big for that app. Even if it did fit in the car it would spool really slow, at least that would be my guess.
Nice looking build, man. Let us know how the turbo set up goes.
------------------ 1984 Fiero SE, White, first love, sold... 1986 Fiero SE 2M6, gold 1988 Fiero 2M4, the Fox 1987 Fiero GT, Blue, 3.4/4T40 Still looking for that perfect CJB 88 GT...
ive got most of what youd need for the dis converstion. pm me, whole kit is 200, but looks like youve got the ecm. ive got the dummy shaft, coilpacks and connectors. instructions are on gmtuners.com
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11:00 AM
PFF
System Bot
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
realy just want a 400hp 3.4l v6 fiero does any one have one? any one even close? if so let me know how. here is a list of my current mods.
OIL FILTER SANDWICH ADAPTER KYB GR-2 GR2 SHOCKS STRUTS PONTIAC FIERO 84 - 87 255LPH FUEL PUMP EBAY BLOW OFF VALVE 84-87 HEAVY DUTY REAR SWAY BAR W/ MOUNTING HARDWARE 84-87 HEAVY DUTY 1" FRONT SWAYBAR W/ MOUNTING HARDWARE 84-88 CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY WCF Fiero Dog-Bone Long Tube headers with "Y" pipe (Steel) 85-88 MSD IGNITION COIL WCF 3.4L Flywheel WCF V6 Engine mount WCF Trans mount left WCF Trans mount right Stage 3 Clutch and Pressure plate Aluminum cradle bushings A Arm Poly bushings upper and lower front A Arm Poly bushings upper and lower rear remanufactured 1995 3.4l camaro/firebird engine 0mi with predrilled starter holes new distributor new water pump new optima battery lager cold air filter 19lbs injectors outlaw muffler c5 corvette tips short shift arms, stifter, bracket from rodney d's\ coilovers in the rear 2in drop in the front recoverd all the wires in the evgine comartment
curently working NEW - GT45 T4 Turbo - GT45 Y2004K - 4.1" Outlet, thinking about going with a smaller turbo like a t4 XS Power 60mm External Turbo Wastegate 7730 ecm hub berrings e-brake line lock
Upgrades ive been concidering rims & tires port and polished heads cam and roller rockers custom plenium intake.
curent build cost 9500.00 puchase price of car w bad engine 3000$
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 12-16-2007).]
chip emulator for better tunning for thoughs that dont know
You can now purchase a device called an EMULATOR that, in conjunction with special software, will allow you to run your OBDI removable-chip-based ECM off of a laptop computer instead of a PROM. This means you can make real-time changes to the program during track or dyno testing or even normal driving. Once you find the optimal settings, you can burn them to a chip. This is an invaluble, time-saving tool for tuning in my opinion.
emulator: This is a device that takes the place of the PROM in the computer and has a cable that hooks to a PC or Laptop computer. Special software on the PC/Laptop loads whatever current PROM settings you have into the emulator so you can run the car. While the car is running, you can make changes to the various tables in your software/tuning program that interfaces with the emulator and, depending on the software (there are a couple of different versions) the changes you make take effect immediately WITHOUT having to reset the ECM. Most of these emulators have a battery backup so they "hold" the current programming even without a laptop hooked up to it, so you could drive around on the emulator without having to burn a chip if you wanted to.[/QUOTE
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 01-02-2008).]
T3/T4 V Band Turbocharger Wheel Trim 60mm Turbine Housing A/R 0.60 Compressor Housing A/R 0.48 2" Inlet, 2.5" V-Band Outlet 1/8 NPT Oil Inlet Internal Wastegate 8psi Wet Float Bearings Hold Up To 350 HP
whith this setup i should have 250hp with a small amount of turbo lag things needed six 30# injectors 255LPH fuel pump Knock sensor custom ecm chip
What is the combination of boost and compression you'll be running? Is it 8 pounds and the stock 9.0:1 compression of the pushrod 3.4L engine, or something else?
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02:37 PM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5349 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
im using a stock 9.0:1 compression in a rebuilt 3.4 out of a 94 firebird i upgraded the injectors to 315cc 30lb/hr and the fuel rail is 50psi.
stock 3.4l hp 160hp X .07% = 11.2hp per lb of boost X 8lbs = 89.6hp + 160hp = 249.6 then add 1% for every degree of air temp you lose through your intercooler. i dont have a intercooler yet. the better you na engine the better to turbo work so if you got mods on your engine then that carries into the math
if you dont have an intercooler id run waterinjection. youll get much more power and save your motor and turbo some stresses. you should be able to tack on another 20-30 hp. is that motor built or are you gonna run stock?
not to rag on your setup but the rsm supercharger kit claims 220 hp out of a 2.8 im amazed there arent many turbo guys crushing that, especially with the larger engine letting you spool up even bigger turbos. im probably going to go this route since ive already paid for headers and intake but id rather go for a good turbo setup.
Not quite. every 14psi of boost is equal to your NA power. So if your 3.4 is 160hp. Add 14psi and your at 320hp. It sounds too simple but that's how it works out. 7psi = 50%NA power. So that's why you have 2.8's with 7psi actually producing 210hp. These are gross figures ofcourse and assume all other conditions are good and efficient, such as proper fueling.
You will not make 290hp with 5# of boost unless your 3.4 is the TDC. I'm assuming it's the pushrod motor. Forgive me if I am wrong.
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07:28 AM
maddoggie Member
Posts: 19 From: Salem, KY USA Registered: Dec 2007
So, if my math is correct 8 lbs. boost should give about 251+hp. Am I figuring this correct? I want good added power yet don't want to compromise my reliability.
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10:57 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
At 14 PSI you are effectively doubling the air allowed into the engine. This does not mean you are doubling the power though.
There are still heavy losses due to intake restriction, head flow, and especially exhaust flow.
Datalogger estamations put my 3.4DOHC with 7PSI at ~290-300 HP, or %70 increase, but thats with an intake and head system that is vastly superior to the OHV 60* V6. I doubt you will see as favorable gains with a more restrictive top end, especially the Fiero intake, even considering its boosted. Additionally the gains are not linear, so 7 to 14 PSI is not going to give you the same increase as 0 to 7.
That being said, good luck keeping the bottom end in one piece.... Or the tranny.... or the axels.... Ive gone through all three, and multiples of some.
i under staind about boost and the 7% rule BUT there are a cuple of sites that say at 8psi it will be putting out 300+ hp here are the sites please look and correct me if im wrong
So, if my math is correct 8 lbs. boost should give about 251+hp. Am I figuring this correct? I want good added power yet don't want to compromise my reliability.
im trying to figure why the 3.4l seems to respond better to turbo than reagular engines i think its becaust the heads have bad flow when NA but when you add boost the engine gets the air it should have. the ony thing i can think of is for you to keep checking in and see how it goes.
here is the calculation that i thought was correct stock hp X 7% 0.07 = hp % X lbs of boost = hp gian + stock hp = total hp with turbo so 160hp X 0.07% = 11.2hp X 8lb = 89.6hp gain + 160 stock hp = 249.6total hp with turbo at 8lbs
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02:07 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
im trying to figure why the 3.4l seems to respond better to turbo than reagular engines i think its becaust the heads have bad flow when NA but when you add boost the engine gets the air it should have. the ony thing i can think of is for you to keep checking in and see how it goes.
You find this with many motors, but its really only directly aparent around the 2-3 psi range, anything more than that does not help that much... It can turn motors that previously were quite useless due to head design (aka the 3800), into a 500WHP drag car.
ok i contacted Tiago and he says his 3.4l at 8psi made 270hp but he goes on to say Tiago said "With correct fuel and timing they will take alot of boost. I ran as much as 15 psi on mine" so i will be running at around 250hp on a 3.4l turbo until..............................lol
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02:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
maddoggie Member
Posts: 19 From: Salem, KY USA Registered: Dec 2007
Could the response of these engines to turbos be related to the fact that the boost increases the volumetric efficiency (over 100% due to FORCED induction) of our little power plants.
Thanks for the info, I'm compiling a list of things I need to consider and or acquire. I'm still unsure as to what size and specs to look for in a turbo. In my particular situation a T3/T4 would probably be my best choice. As far as the other specs I am unsure. I feel 8 lbs boost will accomplish what I want to achieve. The iron head 3.4 is from a 94 firebird. The cam will be stock or maybe slightly larger (very conservative) to push a few more RPM. Head studs for gasket reliability.
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04:19 PM
maddoggie Member
Posts: 19 From: Salem, KY USA Registered: Dec 2007
for the turbo i wouldent go lower then t3/t4 A/R 0.60 on the Exaust Turbine Housing and a wheel trim of 58mm is as low as i would go thats what i got. and as big as T04 70mm if you cant find a 60mm also keepin mind that its got to fit in the car. my t45 was way to big lol also the ball bering type work better then journal berings so like a GT28 with a 60mm trim/exaust if you went smaller you will lose power at the top end
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 12-28-2007).]
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: if you have any documentation on turboing a 3.4l please bring it to my attention i want to do this rite the first time. thank you
Robert Wagoner's book, High Performance Fieros, may be of interest to you.
On pages 11 through 19, he outlines his pushrod 3.4L engine swap.
On pages 21 through 40, he outlines what he did in turbocharging that 3.4L, and perhaps more importantly, what didn't blow up that engine, versus what did.
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10:44 PM
SLOWnSTEADY Member
Posts: 1706 From: Hiawatha, IA Registered: Jul 2005
that 3.4L put out 290 WRHP on 5lbs from a T61... Sure it has a stock short block but i bet there is a ton of money in EVERY other piece of that motor. I am building my DOHC, a pretty "decent" build up I would say with some good stuff and i am hoping to make about 400RWHP on something like 10-12 pounds. However that is bored, fully balanced, lightweight lifters, ported and polished heads, ported and polished lower intake, custom upper intake, 75mm throttle body etc... along with a good tune. I dont see how or WHY someone would put that much money into a boat anchor like the 2.8/3.4 PR motor. For the money spent he/she could do an LS1 swap and make that power right out of the gate. Or just od a 3800SC swap, ditch the blower, add a turbo and go ape **** with the boost and get more power for about half the price.
that 3.4L put out 290 WRHP on 5lbs from a T61... Sure it has a stock short block but i bet there is a ton of money in EVERY other piece of that motor. I am building my DOHC, a pretty "decent" build up I would say with some good stuff and i am hoping to make about 400RWHP on something like 10-12 pounds. However that is bored, fully balanced, lightweight lifters, ported and polished heads, ported and polished lower intake, custom upper intake, 75mm throttle body etc... along with a good tune. I dont see how or WHY someone would put that much money into a boat anchor like the 2.8/3.4 PR motor. For the money spent he/she could do an LS1 swap and make that power right out of the gate. Or just od a 3800SC swap, ditch the blower, add a turbo and go ape **** with the boost and get more power for about half the price.
To each their own i guess...
i like the look of the fiero motor and i like the sound of a v6 v8s dont sound rite to me the 3800 is ugly in my eys and the 3.4dohc is exspecive and i dont meen a used motor why would you want to put a motor in your car that has 80,000 miles in it already my long block cost me 1200$ fully rebuilt.
most of the money ive put into this build is on replacing the crappy parts on the car not the engine the engine build has cost me 3000$ est thats with the turbo, ecm, injectors, programing equip, and headers. can you say its the same for any othe build? and i know my engine has at least 60.000 more miles in it can you say the same. so i look at it the most bang for the buck. i wish i could have done the 250hp 3.6l vvt swap but i did not have the 6500$ just to get the engine to work in the fiero.
oh and if you look more at that site his final hp was 336whp and 398wtq
here are some pics of the headers
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 12-29-2007).]
Red
