I wanted to hear this thing start up so I hooked up all the components in my backyard and after some issues with the theft deterrent system I think I finally got the system to work properly!!!! Thanks to Darth for taking the time to answer my emails. I'll go into more detail on the issues in the next post, lets just enjoy the result for now! Now that I've heard this thing run out of the car I can't wait to hear it run in the car!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOL9BeC4dyA

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-11-2008).]

YEA!

Congrats! Sounds really good!

Now to get it in a fiero. Preferably one of mine.

Thats quite a car you have there! I love the wooden space frame! LoL! J/K

That is just awesome! Are you putting that dash in a Fiero?

oooh its got a cam ...bla pa pa pa bla pa pa pa .....
Thats funny seeing you turn the key at a dash without the car

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 05-11-2008).]

Haha! That's mint! Right at the end it sounds exactly like my dad's Harley. :P

HA!!!

First time I've seen an engine running on that kind of set-up.

Congrats on getting the wiring sorted out.

Cheers

Interesting. Kind of like watching an engine being run on a test stand but without the stand! I wouldn't run that engine too long without having it attached to a coolant system.

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Interesting. Kind of like watching an engine being run on a test stand but without the stand! I wouldn't run that engine too long without having it attached to a coolant system.

It has water and coolant hose. Even heater hose. I looped the power steering and tranny lines too.

That is just too cool......

Keep us posted.

Sounds healthy!

The LS4 has to be just about the best pushrod V8 swap for the Fiero. It'll be sweet when you're done!

That just to kool the way you have it setup and running. I laughed when I watched the video but in a good way. I should have a running LS4 Fiero in the next few months depending on how much I work on it.

is the 5.3 the engien thats in the pontiac gxp?

quote Originally posted by megafreakindeth: is the 5.3 the engien thats in the pontiac gxp?

Yes--

GXP
Monte Carlo SS
Impala SS

The GXP is the only one that comes with tap shift though if I am not mistaken.

Put some wheels, tires, seats and a steering wheel on the pallet and you'll have a red-neck roadster! That sounded pretty good. I can't wait for the build thread.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: That just to kool the way you have it setup and running. I laughed when I watched the video but in a good way. I should have a running LS4 Fiero in the next few months depending on how much I work on it.

Yeah, the first thing I said when I saw the video is that it looks Okie. I only did it to show that the engine will run with the bare minimum of essentials. Now I can start the swap and basically put all the electronics in the Fiero. This was not just to see if the engine would run, but also to get all the needed parts to get it to run without codes. What can I delete from the harness to keep it running and such. I am not done with it yet, but I have other things that need to get done first.

I REALLY like the thought of having an engine that I know runs. That way I wont have to go through so much work trouble shooting it IF it did not start after the swap. Now that I know it runs, I can narrow it down to a major screw up on my part if it will not start.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-13-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Blue Shift: Sounds healthy! The LS4 has to be just about the best pushrod V8 swap for the Fiero. It'll be sweet when you're done!

I have always thought that too. I have a 300+ HP 330 TQ all aluminum V8 that is rumored to get over 30mpg. That is better economy than my original 2.8 V6 and maybe even better than my S*. It all depends on how heavy my foot is. If I can drive it in 4 cylinder mode most of the time I will see good economy. But V8 mode will be in the 20's I am sure.

is that cradle for the fiero or off of the donor car?
also when i read up on the 5.3 it siad it was a short crank version for fwd fittment, is it a lighter option than other v8s? i ran against one and got it off the line by two cars, it pulled up to my door but couldnt go any further before i hit 85 and stopped. i looked it up a while back and thought it might be a neat swap. I saw at one time a grand prix or grand am once with a pontiac northstar, i thought thats what the gxp had but now i dont know anymore.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I have always thought that too. I have a 300+ HP 330 TQ all aluminum V8 that is rumored to get over 30mpg. That is better economy than my original 2.8 V6 and maybe even better than my S*. It all depends on how heavy my foot is. If I can drive it in 4 cylinder mode most of the time I will see good economy. But V8 mode will be in the 20's I am sure.

Fuel ecoomy with the LS4 really depends on where and how you drive. With a lot of stop and go city driving, sitting in traffic... don't expect too much, maybe 14 mpg. On the highway, however it does get high 20's. The numbers will probably be better in a Fiero due to the ~800 pound weight advantage. I average just over 21 in the GP GXP with about 50/50 city highway.

Wonder if BLKCOFY has had a chance to measure his fuel economy yet?

Cheers

quote Originally posted by megafreakindeth: is that cradle for the fiero or off of the donor car? also when i read up on the 5.3 it siad it was a short crank version for fwd fittment, is it a lighter option than other v8s? i ran against one and got it off the line by two cars, it pulled up to my door but couldnt go any further before i hit 85 and stopped. i looked it up a while back and thought it might be a neat swap. I saw at one time a grand prix or grand am once with a pontiac northstar, i thought thats what the gxp had but now i dont know anymore.

The cradle is from a 2000 Impala SS. It would be difficult to make it work for the Fiero. The Motor mounts work as is but need a dog bone. I wont use a dog bone and need to add another mount.
The problem is with the cradle mounts and suspension mounts. They are so different from a Fiero that they will need a TOTAL redesign

Very nice Rick!! I can't wait to see that dash swapped into the fiero!! What a kick. My son is gonna love this one.

you = my hero

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Yah, I wander how it will be. But to be honest, I would be VERRRRY disappointed with mid 20's. I don't believe every thing I see on the net, but one guy on LS1Tech claims to be "The master of DOD" and claims mid 30's. That is very optimistic to me but I could believe if he claimed low 30's by practically never letting it go into V8. He even gives instruction on how to use the gas pedal to avoid V8 mode. BIKCOFY has a nice car and a nice setup so he is the one that should know. One thing comes to mind about his set up, and that is all the reprogramming. Would that affect economy?

I call BS on the mid 30's claim unless we're talking imperial gallons instead of US gallons (may actually have done that on LS1tech). You might hit low 30's in the fiero due to less wind resistance (nearly the same coefficient of drag, but quite a bit less frontal area).

With a lot of reading and a taking things slow, tuning is not an insurmountable obstacle. I picked up HPTuners a year ago, and at least understand the basics (they have a great support forum). You can play with the DOD settings to keep it in V4 mode longer, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Eventually you get to the point where the four cylinders are working too hard and you end up in power enrichment mode (running rich to protect the cylinders). Better off letting the engine switch back to V8 mode and have 8 cylinders hardly working at all.

If you want to run open loop speed density, then you can also lean things out in the VE table cells usually used for cruising (only on the older model E40 ECM's the newer E67 ECM's don't have a VE table, just a set of equations that control things (may be able to set things to simulate lean cruise, but I haven't played with it since the 05 uses the E40)). This may help improve fuel economy a few percent.

Now that I have some grasp on how fuel injection works and how to tune, I can't figure out why anyone would pull off the fuel injection and stick a carburator on an engine. Hard to tune, have to physically change jets/metering rods to control fuel flow, can't be sure that you get optimal fueling at any given load or RPM. With fuel injection its so much simpler to log and analyze data from the engine sensors (and a wideband), make incremental adjustments to tables in a tune (log and repeat as often as necessary).

Cheers

[This message has been edited by TiredGXP (edited 05-13-2008).]

quote Originally posted by TiredGXP: With a lot of reading and a taking things slow, tuning is not an insurmountable obstacle. I picked up HPTuners a year ago, and at least understand the basics (they have a great support forum). You can play with the DOD settings to keep it in V4 mode longer, Now that I have some grasp on how fuel injection works and how to tune

Can you delete the air bag codes?

Not with HPT. It only communicates with the ECM and TCM. Airbags are controlled through the BCM. I think you have to take the BCM to someone with a Tech2 and have the codes turned to "no error reported" in the BCM.

I like the technology, but it complicates things entirely too much. A no-start or poor performance state will no longer be as simple as checking spark plugs, wires, fuel filter and vacuum leaks etc. I would have to have the latest diagnostic tools available to trouble shoot before I would feel comofortable enough with a swop like this.

I noticed it seemed to be skipping during the test run and I'm willing to bet it's just a sticking injector from not being run in a long time. The 3900 in my swop does it after sitting for about 2 months and it clears up after running about 2 or 3 minutes.

Have you checked into EFiLive's tuning equipment for it?

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: I noticed it seemed to be skipping during the test run and I'm willing to bet it's just a sticking injector from not being run in a long time. The 3900 in my swop does it after sitting for about 2 months and it clears up after running about 2 or 3 minutes. Have you checked into EFiLive's tuning equipment for it?

I think it was running out of gas at the very end and I did not purge the fuel rail either before I started it. I only put enough fuel in it to run for a very short time and it does not have a cat or rear o2 sensor and it blew dark smoke so it was running rich also. I've started it a few time since then and it has smoothed out a lot.

I have not checked into any tuning equipment yet.

Started on the cradle mods for the LS4.

Some people have said the driver side rear bottom corner of the 88 cradle has had some failures, so I bridged the weld.


The front cross beam is "boxed" after an oil filter cut out was made.


A small relief had to be made at the top of the driver side rear motor mount "box" for the WCF motor mount.
Also notice a relief detent for the tranny.


Inside the driver side rear mount "box"


Front driver side mount.


Rear passenger side mount.


Front passenger side mount.

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Wow, That is some neat, clean, Well thought out fabrication right there! Looks like it will take the power with ease.

Nice I am sure it will be perfection just like the other cars you have built

What did you use for a gas tank /fuel pump to get it to run on test stand ?

Thanks.
Three of the cradle mounts are mine. The one with polly is WCF. All the mounts on the engine are WCF. I take so long to get things done I decided to use a prefab engine mount system. But I wound up doing some of the work anyway.

quote Originally posted by fieros9: What did you use for a gas tank /fuel pump to get it to run on test stand ?

I used the stock Monte Carlo fuel sending unit that was dropped into a can of gas. I will use the same fuel sending unit in a Fiero tank.