I just wanted to make an easy searchable thread with clear pics showing how to connect the engine lift to the trunk for lifting. If there is already pics out there on these I couldn't find them.
When I was looking for the best way to connect the engine lift to the car for raising and removing the cradle. I performed searches several different ways and read through many looong threads trying to find the best way. I found several threads that simply said pull the trunk carpet back and put the hook in the holes. I did find one thread that showed a pic of the hooks in the trunk holes but they used the two holes just left and right of center. I decided to use this method because the time before I used the trunk latch hook and the trunk bent some.

When I pulled the carpet back I noticed that the two far outside holes on each end were perfectly sized and spaced for hooking the hooks I had bought at home depot. (This may have been intentional). I also made the chain short enough that one end had to be connected after hooking it through the holes. This made it imposible for the hook to jump out. Because it is the widest stance available using the holes it makes it as stable as possible.

Hope this helps someone
I am going to try to post pics (first try at PIP)

I use the latch itself to raise the rear. Give it a minute, and the "You will kill yourself" posts will be here.
I am planning on pulling the cradle on my 88 tomorrow. If you don't hear from me by sundown, I probably killed myself. (don't call the police, this is sarcasm. )

I have one of those engine leveler bars. I'll have to check to see if the chain is long enough to try it your way.

[This message has been edited by Carver1 (edited 02-06-2009).]

In the posts I did find some used the latch. Most said it bent the latch but they were able to beat it back . In fact I used the latch on the first engine I pulled. It did not bend the latch at all but the trunk wall bent back toward the rear bumper. This car actually had the trunk latch ripped off. Looked like they opened the trunk with a crowbar. The lock was missing and the lid was held down with a bungi cord The wide grip made it really stable (didn't rock from side to side even if you leaned on it.)

The only thing i didn't like is the fact that you have to lengthen the lift arm to reach further over the rear end to the inside trunk wall so the feet of the lift were crowding the dolly and cradle.

[This message has been edited by Terry_w (edited 02-06-2009).]

I built a "bowed" 2 "x 2" tube that bolts to 1 strut stud on each side. it has hooks on it to hang the engine from also. so when I need to lift ANY fiero, all I have to do is take off the 2 nuts (1 on each strut stud) put on the "bar" & tighten the nuts. takes a whole 2 minutes to lift the car. Cost..... $0.00 I can't post pics or I would. it's safe , cheap, & fast.

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: I built a "bowed" 2 "x 2" tube that bolts to 1 strut stud on each side. it has hooks on it to hang the engine from also. so when I need to lift ANY fiero, all I have to do is take off the 2 nuts (1 on each strut stud) put on the "bar" & tighten the nuts. takes a whole 2 minutes to lift the car. Cost..... $0.00 I can't post pics or I would. it's safe , cheap, & fast.

So you're raising the entire rear of the car with the engine & trans in it by just two 10mm bolts. I wouldn't call that safe!
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

quote Originally posted by Terry_w: The only thing i didn't like is the fact that you have to lengthen the lift arm to reach further over the rear end to the inside trunk wall so the feet of the lift were crowding the dolly and cradle.

Agreed.

I have the Fierostore Hitch installed...after I unbolted the cradle and suspension (thus taking most of the weight of the rear end) I picked my car up via the trailer hitch...

Keeps the cherry picker out of the way for sure

Disclaimer: If your rear frame rails are marginal, this may not be a good idea.

Lifting the car with tin. oh well. you can see it distorting in those pics, if it starts to rip, well,,,,,,,
I lift it right from the rear cradle crossmember, block the body fowar of the fornt cradle mounts, then lower the cradle.
But with most of those "cherry pickers", that won't work cause the dolly doesn't fit between the legs. course you could put a board across the legs and use the cherry picker as the dolly and transfer it to a regular dolly after it is out, but that is extra steps.
I am just too leary of any of the tin in those areas to trust them, over the years I've seen too many incidents of fallen cars and such from people thinking that some hook point they thought looked good will hold. (not just fiero's, all types of cars)
The trunk wall looks way better than the latch, which imho is just asking for a fallen car (I can move my latch with just hand strength, and you expect it to reliably hold a car...). the blocks and eye bolts in the shock towers is a good method, or chain it directly to the frame rails in front of the trunk, or use a heavy cross bar that spans the frame rails and can be held solid to the rail by the rear cradle bolts.

looks like this supported:


and this is my 0$ lift frame: (well now 20$ as I put wheels on it)



Just whatever you do, PLEASE be careful!!!!!!! If you get a bad feeling, stop and rethink it. I don;t want to hear anyone getting hurt, and a couple thousand pounds is really dangerous to play with.

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 02-06-2009).]

I always use the holes in the rear cross member but I use the inner ones. That way the chain is pulling more vertically and in the direction you want to go. By using the outside holes you are putting the chain under a lot more strain to get the same lifting force in a vertical direction and since that chain is all that holds you car up during the lift, less stress is good in my book.
As for clearance of the dolly, I always have plenty of room and I lift my car 'high'!

Animated gif of engine removal:

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Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

The issue of good quality #8 or better bolts is pretty key. Your torque on the body panel is magnified alot with using chains as you have it. It is safer and better to have a 4' square tube to attach your chains to like an engine hoist. Much safer and easier on the body panels. Just my .02 for the cause

Arn

quote Originally posted by Carver1: I use the latch itself to raise the rear. Give it a minute, and the "You will kill yourself" posts will be here. I am planning on pulling the cradle on my 88 tomorrow. If you don't hear from me by sundown, I probably killed myself. (don't call the police, this is sarcasm. ) I have one of those engine leveler bars. I'll have to check to see if the chain is long enough to try it your way.

YOU'LL KILL YOURSELF!!!

I've also used the latch. and - it did bend each time. I bent it back. I am now worried about the bending & bending back making it weaker.

I like what this guy is doing - looks alot more secure

I've also used the strut tower holes - but that gets the legs of the engine hoist in the way.
I've jacked from below - a serious PITA if you only have 1 jack, and if its not a large one. works great with 2 good size jacks - otherwise you will need to boost the jacks.

yes....I dropped my cradle yearly for almost 7 years....for one reason or another

at one tiem, I just wrapped a strap arounf the whole butt of the car, and hoisted that way. work fine - but had some slipping/tipping potential

i have a trailor hitch for the bike rack, use that as a jacking point. and for cradle removal, attach an engine hoist to the hitch point. made 6 swaps possible so far.

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First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem
Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones
My Fiero Fuel Economy
Videos of My GT
Google Videos of My GT
MPG Display for OBD I

I take the rear bumper cover off and wrap a towing strap around the bumper to lift my cars. Keeps the cherry picker out of the way and is very secure.

Joe Sokol

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC build underway
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

hi,
just to point out,
that in the first picture, the chain isnt long enough i.e when he's gonna lift, the angle which the hooks are going to be will not be at its strongest casuing stress on the chain.

also there is no hoop in the middle of the chain there fore if there is any wobble during the lift, there is a chance that the car could fall on to one side of the chain

accident waiting to happen!!!!
jon

For about $75 (or even less from Harbor Freight) you can get the tool designed for this job. I farted around for years makeshifting stuff to do the job. Then I finally broke down and bought one. So simple I wish I'd bought it years ago.

Here is the procedure that I have used for years with no issues.

After everything is diconnected and only the cradle bolts (already free, broken loose, etc) remain
Remove front wheels
Lower front of car down so that front crossmember is resting on 6 X 6 's
Lower rear of car so that the cradle is resting on the extended legs of cherry picker. Use shims at the front of the cradle to support the front of the cradle uniformly.
Remove cradle bolts
Use cherry picker and rear trunk latch hoop to lift body off of cradle, lift up part way, support with jackstands, lift front part way, support with jack stands, repeat until car is high enough to remove cradle (You are trying to keep the car level as you raise it so that the engine components don't hit the body)
Support body with jack stands and 6 X 6 's
pull cherry picker with cradle and drivetrain out from under car. You can push the cherry picker to the side and bring the drivetrain out thru the wheelwell on the driver's side to keep from lifting the body high enough to bring it out under the trunk.

Reinstallation is a matter of positioning the cradle under the car and lowering the body (evenly) back down on the cradle.

I was leary of picking up the body with just the latch hoop, but have not bend or distorted either the hoop or the trunk wall, as I am lifting straight up with no drivetrain weight. The shear rating on the hoop bolts is overkill for the weight involved. I have also used the slots and holes in the trunk wall crossmember, I think either point is acceptable.

I've done probably 15 removal installs this way over the years with no issues.

The thing to remember is go slow, watch, listen and stay out from under things until the car is supported on jackstands.

BE SAFE!

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-07-2009).]

I have used a chain between the strut towers attached with a grade 8 3/8" bolt. The strut towers are the load bearing members of the chassis and easily up to the task. The downside to this was the struts had to be out of the way.

So, the struts were modified to remove the studs and accept 3/8" bolts from above. Then all I had to do was remove the strut bolt and put in a longer one with the chain attached:


In the last year or so, I have started to use the chain in the rear firewall brace.. mostly because it is the same on all fieros. This speeds things up (at least on the 88's) since I can leave the strut/upright and brake calipers untouched, remove the link bolts, sway bar end links, axles, then everything comes out and I do not need to mess with axle removal once the cradle is out.

You guys are quite brave. We use the safe and trusted hydraulic lift and a motorcycle lift underneath that lowers the cradle down easily and safely. The jack and jackstands way may be a cheap way to do it, but supporting the body 4 feet in the air on jackstands is IMO risky. Lifting by the strut towers with a chain hoist and a support beam is probably OK but using the deck latch as a lifting point is not a good idea.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I really didn't start this thread to convince anyone that this was the "best" way to raise the car. I was just trying to make a thread that was easily searchable and showed a picture of one way to connect to the car. I can't figure out how to put more than one quote in a post so I am making several posts to answer some of the replies.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: Lifting the car with tin. oh well. you can see it distorting in those pics, if it starts to rip, well,,,,,,, I am just too leary of any of the tin in those areas to trust them,

The tin only distorted because it was a parts car and to save time I lifted the car with engine cradle and all instead of using floor jacks to start unbolting the cradle first. When I lifted the other car using the exact same connecting points with the cradle unbolted, There was ABSOLUTELY ZERO distortion to the tin.

The main reason I used this method was because I had the Cherry picker and chain and it seemed the fastest (not having to pull the bumper cover), cheapest ( I only had to buy the two end hooks from Home Depot $10) and in my opinion about as safe as any other.

[This message has been edited by Terry_w (edited 02-10-2009).]

A quick Google shows the working load of a common 10mm bolt to be about 4900 lbs and the breaking strength to be more than 7000 pounds. That seems like a bar between two of the strut tower bolts is more than safe.

quote Originally posted by Terry_w: I really didn't start this thread to convince anyone that this was the "best" way to raise the car. I was just trying to make a thread that was easily searchable and showed a picture of one way to connect to the car. I can't figure out how to put more than one quote in a post so I am making several posts to answer some of the replies. The tin only distorted because it was a parts car and to save time I lifted the car with engine cradle and all instead of using floor jacks to start unbolting the cradle first. When I lifted the other car using the exact same connecting points with the cradle unbolted, There was ABSOLUTELY ZERO distortion to the tin. The main reason I used this method was because I had the Cherry picker and chain and it seemed the fastest (not having to pull the bumper cover), cheapest ( I only had to buy the two end hooks from Home Depot $10) and in my opinion about as safe as any other.

You make a valid point if one did not distort, but people don't bother to check their cars either. that bar is only spot welded on, and if there is a rust problem on the car might be compromised. Looking at the pics, yours looks pretty rust free, but cars in other areas of the country are not.
It's still way better than the trunk latch, but the structural integrity of the trunk should be checked if you live in the rust belts.
And the reason I refer to it as tin is that the whole trunk assembly is very thin sheetmetal, you can bend it with your hand, and the outer corners rust completly away in some areas also.
Still would rather lift it from the rear cradle crossmember, block the body then lower the cradle. no dolly to get in the way til the drop part, and then it is much less weight so you can extend the arm safely. I found it much easier to lift the cradle in than to try to lower the car around it, having tried the later then reblocking the car and lifting the lighter of the 2. But to each their own, you have a way that works for you, just giving my thoughts on that. As I said, I don't want to hear of anyone getting hurt doing a cradle drop, as there is no reason for it if you are careful.

quote Originally posted by garage monster: A quick Google shows the working load of a common 10mm bolt to be about 4900 lbs and the breaking strength to be more than 7000 pounds. That seems like a bar between two of the strut tower bolts is more than safe.

I don't believe that. I can snap one off with a 6" ratchet without a lot of effort. MAYBE it will take that much load pulling straight on it like a nut does, but pulling sideways (as in a chain or bar bolted under it) it will snap with much lees weight. Don't trust your life to that.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: You make a valid point if one did not distort, but people don't bother to check their cars either. that bar is only spot welded on, and if there is a rust problem on the car might be compromised. Looking at the pics, yours looks pretty rust free, but cars in other areas of the country are not. It's still way better than the trunk latch, but the structural integrity of the trunk should be checked if you live in the rust belts. And the reason I refer to it as tin is that the whole trunk assembly is very thin sheetmetal, you can bend it with your hand, and the outer corners rust completely away in some areas also.

You also make an excellent point. I am spoiled by never having a Fiero that is rusted. I've had 5 in my life (I know a very small number compared to a lot of you) and so far I've never seen more than slight surface rust on a few parts. I completely agree that the car you are lifting needs to be evaluated for any method you use. Some of the pictures I see on here show rust that makes my skin crawl

Like has been said before the main ingredient is take your time and be careful. My brother's father-in-law (at the time) was killed by a car falling on him and he had been a mechanic for 30 years. It has made me extra careful since it happened. I try to look at every possibility (safety wise) even if unlikely I try not to risk my life.

Wow it seems I am the only one that regularly uses the dogbone to do this. Don't worry I changed the bolts before I did it to grade 8 or at least the metric equivalent. It lifts it a little crooked when you lift but it works good for me. I also have a chain fall hanging for the ceiling in my garage so that makes things a bit easier.

I don't think I've heard that one before. I don't know if the inside "tin" is any thicker than the outside "tin" that I used but the holes that I used have a rolled edge that adds strength. The dogbone mount is only held to the "tin" wall by a few spotwelds and I've got to think that two connecting points is always better (and more stable) than one, but again whatever works for you. I'm still convinced that for the equipment I have it seems like the method I am using is the quickest and safest.

I have a setup somewhat like fieroguru, except, I built a 2" tubular brace that goes from 1 strut bolt(where he has it,) to the other side (where he has it) but it's SOLID, & has a "bow" upward in the center for clearance. 2 bolts on- 2 bolts off. lifts from the center,

So my different ways to do it.

I use a pallet jack, floor jack, jack stands, chocks (for front wheels), and a 4x4. Lift from the center of the car just behind the fuel tank. Roll out cradle on palletjack. The bonus to the pallet jack is you can lift the car 8"-9" off the ground to get those cradle bolts loose and easily get your jack under the center of the car. If wanted your cradle is already on a pallet too. Palletjacks have, on average, a 5500lb capasity.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 02-11-2009).]

I've done one using two six foot crow bars a chain and a tractor with a front end loader!!

1 ram the crow bars in the frame rails (bumper has to be off)
2 wrap the chain around them
3 unbolt cradle, let fall to ground
4 lift car off of motor and roll car forward by driving forward with the tractor
5 set car down on blocks

And Yes I live out in the sticks in Arkansas and proud of it.

We've also removed a gas tank from behind the seat in a '68 Chevy truck with a backhoe, Can anyone say can opener? By the way this truck was going to the scrap yard.

I just pulled the motor - here's my setup. It's nice - there's no cherry picker legs in the way of the dolly.

BTW, this WONT pick up car AND motor. I used the floor jack for that!

[This message has been edited by fyrebird68 (edited 11-10-2009).]

I may be a little crazy, but i've done 3 swaps, and every time i have just hooked the come along right to the decklid latch. It has never hurt the car, and I've never had any problems.

I removed my engine twice using the following procedure

1) raise the car
2) put several wood palet under the cradle
3) let the car laying down on the palets
4) disconnect cradel, struts and the rest
5) lift the car with using the latch (bend it back a little after)
6) take wood palet (with complete cradle on it) away with palet truck
7) lay down the car on jacks

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Bernard
Fiero V6 GT 1987 (Manual)

I've used the trunk latch twice - yeah - it bent - yeah - I beat it back - wont dont that again
I've used old strut plates, with hoops & nuts thru the hole - that worked OK, but - need to clear the struts first, and the engine hoist legs get in the way
I've used plain old floor jack & jack stands from underneath - holy crap is that a scary lift

next time - I will go with the trunk wall holes or, wrap a pair of straps around the whole trunk

I am getting ready to do my first engine removal/swap so this thread was both timely and informative. I have removed and replaced tons of Chevy engines over the last 40 years but jacking a car up four feet is new to me. Before reading this thread, I considered building a reinforced saw horse that would support the car on the lifting points. or perpahs two sawhorses--one on each side. I would build these things out of 4x4s and 2x12 lumber. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I hope to start today so I will check back for any replies. Thanks in advance

quote Originally posted by starlightcoupe: I am getting ready to do my first engine removal/swap so this thread was both timely and informative. I have removed and replaced tons of Chevy engines over the last 40 years but jacking a car up four feet is new to me. Before reading this thread, I considered building a reinforced saw horse that would support the car on the lifting points. or perpahs two sawhorses--one on each side. I would build these things out of 4x4s and 2x12 lumber. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I hope to start today so I will check back for any replies. Thanks in advance

hmmm - saw horse/scissor jack
maybe on to something here

I have a jig I made up that bolts to the inner strut bolt on each side and has a hook welded in the middle. The bar also has attachments for bolting over to the deck lid hinge bracket for when I am doing clutch changes and do not want to drop the engine while doing the job.
Very easy to make with square stock steel, some angle iron and a good welder. Dan

I started using two jacks and as previously stated, that was a bit hairy. I then used my "cherry picker" hooked to the trunk latch and it was fine. I wouldn't get under the car with it like that or lift the car with motor attached but it worked fine with no problems. As far as the lacth bending...didn't notice if it did or not but I've got a second latch from my parts car that i'll swap into the new chasis when the motor goes into it. Basically 1 latch for lifting, 1 for latching. That way if it bends it wont matter and i wont compromise it's strength by beating it back, bending it again, beating it back etc etc. I'll probably upgrade the bolts too. I supose if you wanted to be sure, you could hook up to the latch and a secondary safety strap to the trunk wall just in case it should fail but i don't know of anybody that's happend too. 5....4....3.....2....

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: I use a pallet jack, floor jack, jack stands, chocks (for front wheels), and a 4x4. Lift from the center of the car just behind the fuel tank.

+1, except I built a cradle dolly with a few 2x4's and casters. Works great, plus there are no engine hoist legs in the way, but you will need a decent floor jack to get it high enough.

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'88 Formula. 2800/automatic. Still haven't driven a Fiero, need ignition parts and suspension work...

The rest of the garage:
'92 LeBaron sedan: 3.0V6/5sp
'77 Camaro: 350/4sp
'71 Fiat Spider: 1800/5sp
'71 Mercedes 220D: 2.2L/4sp
'70 DeVille: 472ci/TH400
'62 DeVille: 390ci/Hydramatic Jetaway