Hey guys, figured I had all my timing issues worked out. Went to start the car today and it was not starting too good... small adjustment on the distributor, fired right back up. Then moved the timing back to the correct place using the light, and it now runs for crap? I advanced the timing a little and it ran much better, with a little hesitation on the top end, so I adjusted again back to base timing and it ran even worse than before??? What are the signs of a bad Harmonic Balancer?? Could this be my issue?

I think you're timing is too far retarded. How are you measuring the spark timing?

The harmonic balancer is just a weight that spins around, I dont see how it could cause a hard start. If it runs better when you adjust the timing, it's probably a timing problem. My 2.8 was hard to start a few weeks ago because my timing was 5 degrees BTDC, which is way retarded. I got it to about 10-12 BTDC and it runs much better. Sounds like the same situation you're in right now.

As of right now my process of checking/adjusting the timing is just grounding the ecm, loosen the distributor, check timing marks (already all marked), turn distributor... lol. Thought I was doing it right but I agree, I think its too far back too... but its confusing to me, I keep reading that I need to balance between 1 and 4, but when I hook the light up to both there looks like there is no difference at all between them... I can't seem to understand what balance them is alluding to!

quote Originally posted by MordacP: The harmonic balancer is just a weight that spins around, I dont see how it could cause a hard start.

I guess you'll be learning something from this post then.

quote Originally posted by Patrick here : I had rebuilt my distributor, so I needed to time the engine when I put the distributor back in. I had never worked on a 2.8L engine before I bought this '86 GT in March (as my other Fieros are Dukes), so everything/anything I'm doing on this engine is new to me. Well, no matter what I did I couldn't get the dog-gone engine timed properly. When I followed the proper procedure, the engine would stall at 10 degrees BTDC. To make a LONG story short, it appears the outer hub of the harmonic balancer has spun on its rubber mount. Just my luck the FIRST time I ever try to time a 2.8L engine, the timing marks are all screwed up. Anyway, just for now I've inscribed a new timing mark on the harmonic balancer. This mark really is at TDC. Once I did that, timing the engine was a piece of cake.

quote Originally posted by Wayward_Son: but when I hook the light up to both there looks like there is no difference at all between them...

Great, don't worry about it. There shouldn't be any great difference between them. The less the better.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-18-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Wayward_Son: Hey guys, figured I had all my timing issues worked out. Went to start the car today and it was not starting too good... small adjustment on the distributor, fired right back up. Then moved the timing back to the correct place using the light, and it now runs for crap? I advanced the timing a little and it ran much better, with a little hesitation on the top end, so I adjusted again back to base timing and it ran even worse than before??? What are the signs of a bad Harmonic Balancer?? Could this be my issue?

Well, here's one sign of a bad damper :



That outer ring can slip putting your timing marks in the wrong position. With my old damper the timing was retarded even though the marks looked correct with a timing light. You can visually check your damper to see if the outer ring is loose or put Cyl. #1 at TDC and see where the marks are. Another way might be to check the crank keyway against the position of TDC mark:



If you do need a damper, real rebuilt Fiero dampers are available at damperdoctor.com. If you buy a damper somewhere else you will likely have to make a new mark on the damper for TDC.

Sent you a PM.

Mike

I just experienced a bad balancer that caused the timing chain to go premature on a customers car as well as cause alternator issues ( charging )

weirdly enough it wasn't over heating

I've read where that outer ring can eventually walk back into the timing cover and rub a hole into it. Now wouldn't that be fun? By the way Wayward_Son, if you do replace the damper, you might as well install a new timing cover seal while you're in there.

Mike

quote Originally posted by Nosferatu187: I've read where that outer ring can eventually walk back into the timing cover and rub a hole into it. Now wouldn't that be fun? By the way Wayward_Son, if you do replace the damper, you might as well install a new timing cover seal while you're in there. Mike

Dead on, Mike.

Need to be careful about where you get your damper, too. Many posts about buying dampers with the timing marks incorrect. I even had problems with AutoZone. I bought a new one from them for my V6. It seemed to be the one for the L4. Their database was wrong and no way to get the correct one from them.

If you opt to replace let us know and we can help you get the right one.

quote Originally posted by sjmaye: Dead on, Mike. Need to be careful about where you get your damper, too. Many posts about buying dampers with the timing marks incorrect. I even had problems with AutoZone. I bought a new one from them for my V6. It seemed to be the one for the L4. Their database was wrong and no way to get the correct one from them. If you opt to replace let us know and we can help you get the right one.

Where can one get the "right one" ?

there's some really helpful videos on you tube about how to set the timing if you think its that

quote Originally posted by Erik: Where can one get the "right one" ?

Hi Erik,

Like sjmaye said I too had a problem with a damper from Autozone. It appeared to be correct although the timing marks were wrong, as expected. The problem was it vibrated a lot at 2500RPM and up. I used all the correct tools to press it on so maybe it was defective? Anyway I found this place on the 'net:

http://www.damperdoctor.com...DD&Category_Code=PON

I found out about him in a Classic/Antique car forum. He has been rebuilding dampers for something like 30 years and has even won awards for his work. I installed his damper and timed the engine. No problems at all, no vibration and no need to make new timing marks. His prices are comparable or cheaper than other vendors and gives a discount if you send in your old core. He can also make custom dampers/motor mounts. To me it's the best way to go if you need a damper.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Nosferatu187 (edited 05-19-2009).]

So guys, I'm going to first take a look at the timing marks in relation to #1 TDC... and see if they are correct. My question is, with TDC on #1, where is the mark supposed to be? At 0.0 on the timing tab?

quote Originally posted by Wayward_Son: So guys, I'm going to first take a look at the timing marks in relation to #1 TDC... and see if they are correct. My question is, with TDC on #1, where is the mark supposed to be? At 0.0 on the timing tab?

Yes, and make sure it's the wide line as there are three timing marks on the balancer.

So... it should line right up there? If it doesn't am I ok with marking where it does with chalk and trying to line that up for timing? Guess I will try and see.

quote Originally posted by Erik: Where can one get the "right one" ?

Someone here on PFF put me on the Damperdoctor. The timing marks are correct and works fine.

quote Originally posted by Wayward_Son: So... it should line right up there? If it doesn't am I ok with marking where it does with chalk and trying to line that up for timing? Guess I will try and see.

You'll find that the new chalk mark will move just like the original marks. You might get lucky and have it hold for a short time. I've seen some where you could turn the outer ring with your hands.

I'm thinking the balancer is slipping... I marked "new" marks and the car wont run at all lined up to them... but if you go by ear, get it running good, then check the timing the marks are 15+ degrees off where they should be.... ughhh