I've been researching 3800 swaps and it has become very obvious that the search tool here on PFF isn't very useful. I've also noticed that a lot of the build threads show pictures of things, but don't explain them, show part numbers, measurements, etc. So, I'll be making a few threads in the next few months to ask detailed questions based on what I've seen, what I've researched, and what I try. When the swap is 100% done, I'll make a master thread showing detailed measurements, detailed pictures, schematics of fabrications, comparisons, part numbers, etc. for every step I take.


I've got an '88 Fiero GT with the Getrag. I'm putting a 3800 SC III in it. It's now time for me to figure out what kind of flywheel/clutch combination to use. Although cheap is good, I prefer quality, performance, and longevity. What do you experts have to say?


I've been told that the trick to not grenading a clutch is to break it in carefully and properly. Also, to have your clutch/flywheel balanced professionally. Here's a website I found that talks about flywheels:
http://members.aceweb.com/newmdav/new_page_1.htm


CenterForce:
I have a CenterForce 11" non-dual friction in my Trans Am that has lasted 27k so far. It makes for a stiff clutch, but it engages perfectly and grips much better than the stocker in that car. However, looking at pictures of clutches, CenterForce isn't reinforced like the others.




SPEC:
They have some good reinforcements and look pretty sturdy. However, there's a lot of mixed opinion on these.




Clutchnet
I've been looking at the Clutchnet clutch because it looks identical to a SPEC, but it looks stout around those springs.



Here's some useful threads I found:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/090893-2.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/097055.html

Also, what material should I use? Ceramic? Kevlar?


Does it matter if I have the Series III or the Series II 3800?

btw, I know that some of these threads have outdated pictures, not to mention different models.

[This message has been edited by Rolling Thunder (edited 05-30-2009).]

I used the McCleod sintered Iron 9 11/16" clutch (think west coast fiero still sells them) I was very happy with the clutch, just not the trans. The gearing was too far off for the 3800 so I went to the 4t65e.

The fiero centerforce is a joke, it is not designed properly, it is an obvious cop out.

The spec is fairly proven (although failures are fairly proven as well)

Clutch net has some decent reviews, and is fairly cheap.

I will add a +1 for the Clutchnet. I only use their discs and have never been disappointed.

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62 Buick Special
86 GT, 5-Speed
87 GT, 3.4l DOHC Turbo 415 WHP, 11.9 @ 118
88 Toyota Supra Turbo

I used the McCleod cintered iron clutch from west coast as well. IMO it's too stiff, possibly leading to a problem I experienced here. That said, it's also likely that I caused my own problem (per usual). West Coast has replaced that model with a bronze/ceramic one that I've not used though.

i have had OEM GM clutches last over 250,000 miles .if and when my clutch goes i will get a new one from GM .

quote Originally posted by wftb: i have had OEM GM clutches last over 250,000 miles .if and when my clutch goes i will get a new one from GM .

I'm not sure the OEM Fiero clutch will survive a 3800.


DarkHorizon, how streetable is that aluminum flywheel of yours?

[This message has been edited by Rolling Thunder (edited 05-30-2009).]

I used the ram clutch they make a hevy duty on that their tech dept said would work with a s/c setup though i have a n/a motor. i am very happy with it and it was very resonably priced.

Ant

I've been dealing with SPEC for my 3800 turbo for quite some time now and I'm NOT satisfied with the product. If you want my opinion, go with the clutchnet parts.

My SPEC unit would slip like hell, then it decided to let the springs free and all hell broke loose. I spent over $600 and 3 weeks with them to get a new clutch that would hold and literally 1month later, it slips like hell again. I've been contacting SPEC lately more often than my family members. Not Recommended by me.

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--1984 3800 Turbo / 5speed
--11.8 @ 126mph

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt:then it decided to let the springs free

That's why I called the Clutchnet "sturdy." It looks just like the SPEC, but has the stamped sheet metal around the springs to retain them. Some other clutches have that, but I haven't seen one yet that looks as good.

[This message has been edited by Rolling Thunder (edited 05-31-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Rolling Thunder: I'm not sure the OEM Fiero clutch will survive a 3800. DarkHorizon, how streetable is that aluminum flywheel of yours?

It was no less streetable than a typical swap iron flywheel.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: It was no less streetable than a typical swap iron flywheel.

So, the change in the moment of inertia is not obvious or noticeable?

Anyone else have any experience with 3800/getrag combinations?

quote Originally posted by Rolling Thunder: Anyone else have any experience with 3800/getrag combinations?

I'm curious, which of the clutchnet clutches would best fit a 3800SC with mods (let's say ~300hp). They have several in the yellow and red products that I think should hold, but none of them are rated from what I can tell to the gription they provide. Also, I read that the stock pressure plate would provide enough pressure to hold a more grippy clutch disk, so does that mean one could buy a red-series clutch disk, and a yellow-series PP? I'm a bit confused.

yeah how about some part #'s ??

I run a spec 3 behind my 3800sc. little slippage but very driveable.
Run away from the centerforce.


I think I will hit up clutchnet next clutch changeout.

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88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. 12" Vette Rotors,Custom stuff done

quote Originally posted by grsychckn: I'm curious, which of the clutchnet clutches would best fit a 3800SC with mods (let's say ~300hp). They have several in the yellow and red products that I think should hold, but none of them are rated from what I can tell to the gription they provide. Also, I read that the stock pressure plate would provide enough pressure to hold a more grippy clutch disk, so does that mean one could buy a red-series clutch disk, and a yellow-series PP? I'm a bit confused.

The centerforce PP was more or less a stock PP....

The spec appeared stock, but there is a small chance it has a bit more clamping pressure, as it felt a bit stiffer than the centerjunk.

So far, Clutchnet wins.

Any preferences on the flywheel?

Ok, I called and talked with George from clutchnet. I am not an agressive driver and I don't race my 3800SC. Based on that and my complaint of a stiff clutch pedal and lots of chattering, he recommended the following:

Disk: Fiber Carbon clutch disc with sprung hub for Pontiac Fiero (Fits : Pontiac Fiero 1988-85 2.8L, 5 sp., 9 1/8 O.D. 6 Cylinder, SKU: 66005Y1)
Plate: Yellow performance level pressure plate for Pontiac Fiero (Fits : Pontiac Fiero 1988-85 2.8L, 5 sp., 9 1/8 O.D. 6 Cylinder, SKU: 15704XY43)

With this pressure plate he says it should hold up to ~400hp and the disk will allow me to slip, thereby keeping the chatter down. I should receive them next week sometime so I'll probably add picts to my build thread.

quote Originally posted by grsychckn: Ok, I called and talked with George from clutchnet. I am not an agressive driver and I don't race my 3800SC. Based on that and my complaint of a stiff clutch pedal and lots of chattering, he recommended the following: Disk: Fiber Carbon clutch disc with sprung hub for Pontiac Fiero (Fits : Pontiac Fiero 1988-85 2.8L, 5 sp., 9 1/8 O.D. 6 Cylinder, SKU: 66005Y1) Plate: Yellow performance level pressure plate for Pontiac Fiero (Fits : Pontiac Fiero 1988-85 2.8L, 5 sp., 9 1/8 O.D. 6 Cylinder, SKU: 15704XY43) With this pressure plate he says it should hold up to ~400hp and the disk will allow me to slip, thereby keeping the chatter down. I should receive them next week sometime so I'll probably add picts to my build thread.

Thanks for the info. I will race mine a few times a year, so I might need to step it up a notch. I'm probably not going to exceed 300hp on my 3800SC, but I'll consult George soon about it.

quote Originally posted by Rolling Thunder: So, this is a 3800 flywheel machined down to 0.840 in and a Getrag clutch, right?

Exactly.

Has anyone else used the McLeod clutch from West Coast Fieros?

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1988 Fiero GT "Rolling Thunder"
Restoration Project
Soon to have 3800 SC III
"I'm a Rolling Thunder and a Pouring Rain... I'm coming on like a Hurricane - ACDC"

Don't forget that you need the flywheel balanced to the 3800 flexplate.

Chris

im using some sort of bully clutch that is right at the edge of instant on
but with practice (about one evening) I have the feel for it and its holding nicely
Joe at The Fiero Shop got it for me

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87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6
Bully Stage 2 clutch
Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner
Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection
50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump
LM1 wideband on custom manifolds and 3" stainless exhaust system
T31/T04B H3 turbo and a S10 caliper conversion.
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"