1987 SE 4-cyl, 5spd: As our cars age, certain parts may fail due to time...

Yesterday, as I was nearing a sweeping left turn on to a freeway onramp, a Honda Accord sedan was on my tail. What would you do in this situation?

(A) perform sweeping left turn carefully and slowly while Honda hugs your ass, or
(B) go in hot and show off the cornering prowess of your Fiero.

Well, I decided (B). And during the left turn (BOOM!) - lower right front ball joint had decided that it had too much... And off to the shoulder I go. However, AAA soon came to the rescue.

Upon inspection - the lower right ball joint is gone, and the right upper ball joint is stressed. To replace right side ball joints = $362.00. To replace all 4 front ball joints = $585.00.

I decided to go ahead and have all four front ball joints replaced, car should be ready by end of today.

- kv

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88 GT T-Top 5-spd #338 of 1252
87 SE 4-cyl 5-spd sunroof, spoiler, performance sound
85 2M4 base coupe T-Top 5-spd, rackless decklid, 15-in 88 GT rims, aero-conversion

Did they give you a break-down of the costs into parts and labor? Just wondering what they were charging for the ball joints and if they had the elongated holes for adjustment ( or am I thinking of the rear ball joint? ).

- I almost used an abreviation for Ball Joint, but it didn't look right. LOL

Jonathan

That's very good advice, the same thing has happened to others on the forum. I changed all of mine about 2+ years ago, got the full front set from Rodney. It's usually, but not always, the front lower ball joint that goes first. You're very lucky, glad nobody was injured and your Fiero will be back on the road soon!

Mike

yup...few things more embarassing than having a wheel fall off when trying to show off....

quote Originally posted by Kelvin Vivian: To replace right side ball joints = $362.00. To replace all 4 front ball joints = $585.00. - kv

Hope that included a tube of KY....

You can get all four GOOD ball joints from Rodney for $76 , plus shipping. Surely you could find someone to put them in for less then $500.

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup...few things more embarassing than having a wheel fall off when trying to show off....

[This message has been edited by Chump (edited 01-04-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: Hope that included a tube of KY.... You can get all four GOOD ball joints from Rodney for $76 , plus shipping. Surely you could find someone to put them in for less then $500. Kevin

5 small is ok - I'm happy that the damage was limited to only the ball joints and nothing else.

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88 GT T-Top 5-spd #338 of 1252
87 SE 4-cyl 5-spd sunroof, spoiler, performance sound
85 2M4 base coupe T-Top 5-spd, rackless decklid, 15-in 88 GT rims, aero-conversion

quote Originally posted by Kelvin Vivian: As our cars age, certain parts may fail due to time...

And lower suspension owner x 100 at least.

quote Originally posted by Nosferatu187: It's usually, but not always, the front lower ball joint that goes first.

Yes... Front lower because the spring is on it.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by Kelvin Vivian: 5 small is ok - I'm happy that the damage was limited to only the ball joints and nothing else.

Agreed, it could have been MUCH worse.

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Chump:

Its a ricer thing... Removing the lug nuts to save weight...

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Did they give you a break-down of the costs into parts and labor? Just wondering what they were charging for the ball joints and if they had the elongated holes for adjustment ( or am I thinking of the rear ball joint? ). Jonathan

Price Breakdown is as follows:

Upper Ball Joint/K5292 - $39.17 x 2 = $78.34
Lower Ball Joint/K6273 - $50.02 x 2 = $100.04
Labor = $344.49
4 wheel alignment = $109.90

I was able to inspect the ball joints that were removed from the car, and each of the three non-broken ball joints had a torn rubber boot.

The shop recommended that I eventually replace the tie rod ends as there is some play... also, my steering damper has a leak. I'll replace the steering damper on my own...

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88 GT T-Top 5-spd #338 of 1252
87 SE 4-cyl 5-spd sunroof, spoiler, performance sound
85 2M4 base coupe T-Top 5-spd, rackless decklid, 15-in 88 GT rims, aero-conversion

+1 on checking balljoints
+1 on Rodney's balljoints.

I installed them after mine failed, couldn't be happier.

Interestingly mine failed when going in a straight line at 40+ mph. (after completing a turn not to long ago)

I kept hearing that they break during low speed turns. Interesting that there is another member who had one fail at high speeds.

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: +1 on checking balljoints +1 on Rodney's balljoints. I installed them after mine failed, couldn't be happier. Interestingly mine failed when going in a straight line at 40+ mph. (after completing a turn not to long ago) I kept hearing that they break during low speed turns. Interesting that there is another member who had one fail at high speeds.

Same thing happend to me. Straight line, 30mph after completing a bunch of turns just before that.

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'84 3800SC, XP cam, 3.2 pully, HPTuners, N* TB, 4sp, SPEC 3+ clutch, Aluminium flywheel, pacesetter headers, F355 body kit, weight reduction

quote Originally posted by Kelvin Vivian: Price Breakdown is as follows: The shop recommended that I eventually replace the tie rod ends as there is some play...

I would question them on this. You CAN NOT do a proper alignment, with ANY play in the tie rods. No way to get a setting with the things moving. Any shop worth their weight would know this.
Bottom line, if there is any play in the tie rods, they were not able to set the toe, they just "Got it close".

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: I would question them on this. You CAN NOT do a proper alignment, with ANY play in the tie rods. No way to get a setting with the things moving. Any shop worth their weight would know this. Bottom line, if there is any play in the tie rods, they were not able to set the toe, they just "Got it close". Kevin

Yep, that is what they told me. I will be getting the alignment double-checked later on today at another shop... The toe in the front seems to be off - as if the front tires are fighting each other while going in a straight line... About 5 months ago I had an alignment performed, and it was great.
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88 GT T-Top 5-spd #338 of 1252
87 SE 4-cyl 5-spd sunroof, spoiler, performance sound
85 2M4 base coupe T-Top 5-spd, rackless decklid, 15-in 88 GT rims, aero-conversion

[This message has been edited by Kelvin Vivian (edited 01-05-2010).]

Hey Kelvin!

As I recall, p/n's beginning with "K" are most likely Moog.
I hope I'm right.
If so, Moog is a good choice so at least they are putting on quality
suspension parts.

Funny, this exact same thing happened to Rob Reed's car when we had our Westfest back in Marina, Calif.
They had to literally DRAG his 87 GT onto the flatbed.

Kit

quote Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: As I recall, p/n's beginning with "K" are most likely Moog. I hope I'm right. If so, Moog is a good choice so at least they are putting on quality suspension parts. Kit

If they are Moog, then it would be a good price. Problem is, most parts houses, have thier house brand, using the same numbering system. For example, the same ball joints at an Oreilly's parts store, Number K5292, could be for the Moog ($43.99 here), or the Master Pro Chassis line ($21.99). This is where the repair places get you. Charge the good part price, install the cheaper cost part. This is why I trust NONE of them. I've personally seen body shops charge for Factory OEM parts, like headlights and fenders, and put on aftermarket. More then once!
Even charge for blending panels for color match, when they clearly did not. They just shoot it, hope it's close, and that nobody notices.
Sorry, I'm done now.

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: Funny, this exact same thing happened to Rob Reed's car when we had our Westfest back in Marina, Calif. They had to literally DRAG his 87 GT onto the flatbed. Kit

A flatbed came for my car, too. The right front tire was slammed and rubbed against the top of the inner wheel well. To load the car onto the flatbed, the tow truck operator lowered the flatbed in front of my car. We tried pushing the car so that the front tires were on the ramp, but we couldn't due to a 2-3 inch lip that had to be overcome at the entrance of the ramp. So I ended up driving the front two tires of the car onto the ramp, and thereafter, the operator hammered/jammed some plastic skids underneath both front tires, and then pulled the rest of the car up onto the bed with the front tires skidding on the plastic skids. - kv

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88 GT T-Top 5-spd #338 of 1252
87 SE 4-cyl 5-spd sunroof, spoiler, performance sound
85 2M4 base coupe T-Top 5-spd, rackless decklid, 15-in 88 GT rims, aero-conversion

[This message has been edited by Kelvin Vivian (edited 01-07-2010).]

I had a Camaro that had a clunking sound when ever I hit a bump.This happend after hitting a huge pot hole in my other car a Camaro.I thought I had a broken shock weld,because the noise only ocured,with the slightest bump.Well needless to say I was cruzeing along at 55mph (good thing I wasnt on the freeway).Then BAM! I come scretching to a halt,with a big cloude of smoke.Fortunately no one was behid me.The front wheel dropped down into the wheel well,due to a cracked ball joint.The wheel was still attached by the tye rod ends,but the car looked like a low rider.Fortunatley the brake rotar was undamaged.Grease those ball joints to help improve safety.

Any one used the balljoints sold on Ebay ? Any good ? in the fron't I'll probably use rodneys 1" drop joints, but the rears? I want it to be safe, just Don't know exactly WHAT Brand are selling.

Hi Lou, I recently bought the 4 front ball joints for my '87 GT on e-bay. To put it simply, I am not too happy with the quality of these parts. They were cheap, like around $ 30.00 for all four. And yes, they are made in China ! I'm thinking about getting a set from Rodney and do the job over, don't trust these Chinese parts. Hope this answers your question. Ernie

Dang pot hole got me the weekend before Spring fling.

alot of pictures being posted, I'm getting nothing showing up bt a White screen where the pic is supposed to be. I think I'll skip the ebay ones, don't need a wheel coming off no matter How Cheap they are !

Lou, that is smart thinking ! A few extra bucks to play it safe and get quality parts. Look at it this way, your life is riding on those parts ! Ernie

For 84-87 Fieros, can the ball joints in the rear fail in the same dramatic fashion as the fronts? If so, I'm going to also have my rear ball joints replaced in the near future.

How about the ball joints of 88 Fieros? I suppose the front and rear ball joints of my 88 should be replaced soon as the car has approx. 150k miles. - kv

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88 GT T-Top 5-spd #338 of 1252
87 SE 4-cyl 5-spd sunroof, spoiler, performance sound
85 2M4 base coupe T-Top 5-spd, rackless decklid, 15-in 88 GT rims, aero-conversion

quote Originally posted by Kelvin Vivian: For 84-87 Fieros, can the ball joints in the rear fail in the same dramatic fashion as the fronts? If so, I'm going to also have my rear ball joints replaced in the near future. How about the ball joints of 88 Fieros? I suppose the front and rear ball joints of my 88 should be replaced soon as the car has approx. 150k miles. - kv

88 doesn't have ball joints in the rear.

I would "think" the rears would "give way" first. Not only the spring pressure pushing down, but the extra weight of the engine/trans on them ! they MAY be stronger than the front, but, do "YOU" need a rear wheel coming off ?

Happened to me on a impala after putting in stiffer front springs. Turned right and boom left bottom gave out and stopped me dead. Kind of embrassing needing a two truck to come pick up my car and tow it down the road a block

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: If they are Moog, then it would be a good price. Problem is, most parts houses, have thier house brand, using the same numbering system. For example, the same ball joints at an Oreilly's parts store, Number K5292, could be for the Moog ($43.99 here), or the Master Pro Chassis line ($21.99). This is where the repair places get you. Charge the good part price, install the cheaper cost part. This is why I trust NONE of them. I've personally seen body shops charge for Factory OEM parts, like headlights and fenders, and put on aftermarket. More then once! Even charge for blending panels for color match, when they clearly did not. They just shoot it, hope it's close, and that nobody notices. Sorry, I'm done now. Kevin

The replacement ball joints are federal mogul - so I suspect they are Moogs. They are serviceable. I did end up paying Wheel Works another $84 to properly align my car - they had no problems getting the toe set.

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88 GT T-Top 5-spd #338 of 1252
87 SE 4-cyl 5-spd sunroof, spoiler, performance sound
85 2M4 base coupe T-Top 5-spd, rackless decklid, 15-in 88 GT rims, aero-conversion

Rears will only fail like that if you installed a sway bar mounted to the lower arm. The rear lower arm doesn't support the weight of the car. it just locates the rear wheel in/out and fore/aft. The strut that's mounted to the top supports the car. This is also why the rear ball joints just clamp in, they aren't designed to have vertical pressure on them. When you install the sway bar and attach it to the lower arms on the 84 to 87 cars you open yourself up to this type of failure. The only rear ball joints I've ever heard of failing were on a sway bar added car. On the front the lower arm supports the weight that's why the ball joint fails. Other makers flip the ball joints over so when they wear the ball is pushed into the socket and not pulled out like on GM models.

Stu

ahhh, now that you mention it, the rears Don't carry the weight.