We're having quite a discussion in the forum of our local Fiero club about what kind of lubricants should be used on brake caliper sliders and O-rings.

A couple of club members have stated they use anti-sieze compound such as Permatex® Anti-Seize Lubricant.

Keep in mind, we are not discussing what should be used on the threads of the caliper bolts, we are discussing the lubrication of the sliders and O-rings.

So, is it "common" to use anti-seize compound on caliper sliders and O-rings, or is it... unusual?

There is a specific grease for that purpose formulated for the high heat. Why not use that? Cheapness??

I guess people who don't want to spend a couple bucks to buy the proper product will use whatever they have.

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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-16-2010).]

quote Originally posted by fierosound: There is a specific grease for that purpose formulated for the high heat.

Yes, there are products such as Permatex® Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant and Permatex® Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube.

Keep those opinions coming!

Unusual. Personally, I wouldn't use it, actually, I quite strongly reccomend against it.

Antisieze is not a constant movement friendly lubricant. It naturally dries out turning to a very thick, almost clay like paste. On bolts, it remains in place, and allows a bolt to remain tight, but prevents it from galling or corroding in place. In calipers, it makes the sliding action very difficult shortly after you use it. This is still unexceptable.

The high heat, I think its silicone based, (sometimes it has graphite in it) purpose made lubricant is the correct stuff. If you use enough of it, and your slider boots are good, it should last a really long time. I actually reccomend cleaning out the sliders, lubing them and re-assembling them every time you change the pads. The Fiero caliper is made of aluminum. Unfortunatly this has its own problems. If there isn't enough lubricant, it will eventually get too thin in spots between the slider, the bore, and the O-rings or boots. Then things start to sieze up. Once the rubber dries up the caliper will sieze, but it can still be easily rebuilt. If the metal surfaces dry out, the aluminum and steel start to react to one another then, it gets difficult to rebuild. So use it liberally.

Oh, and Loctite your caliper bolts. They can and will back out on their own.

He is absolutely correct. that silver antisieze dries out making the caliper sticky. been there tried that. better off to go buy the synthetic caliper lubricant from the auto parts store. It was only 5-6$ for a can the size of the antisieze can. You will be doing yourself and the brakes a great favor.

Should the sleeves be lube on the outside or the inside where the bolt goes through?

To get back to the question, what DO you use, I've used an anti-sieze compound that had a high nickle content. It did appear to be dried somewhat when the pads were replaced the next time. I've heard of people using CV joint grease, chassis lube and white molybdenum grease. A couple of years ago, I changed over to the brake slider grease and it seems to be holding up well.

I lube the slider bolt, then insert it into the caliper.

quote Originally posted by IIKool: Should the sleeves be lube on the outside or the inside where the bolt goes through?

Only on the outside of the sleve, the bolt itself requires no lubrication, as it is not a moving part.

As said above, you do not lube the bolt. The bolt holds the slider tight to the knuckle, then the caliper slides on the slider. You have to pull the sliders out of the caliper and boots and lube them up with the proper silicon caliper grease and insert them back in making sure the boots are seated correctly. Also as mentioned above use thread lock on the bolts that hold the sliders to the knuckle. Even when properly torqued, there is still a chance of them backing out. In the end, don't do anything that does not seem 100% correct with your brakes or you put yourself and every one else on the road with you in danger

quote Originally posted by jsketcham: He is absolutely correct. that silver antisieze dries out making the caliper sticky. been there tried that. better off to go buy the synthetic caliper lubricant from the auto parts store. It was only 5-6$ for a can the size of the antisieze can. You will be doing yourself and the brakes a great favor.

yup...me too....I've used anti-seize on caliper bolt sliders and it caked & got sticky
and - yes - get a small can of brake caliper grease, and it will last you forever. being you barely need pea sized drop per caliper.

Syl-Glide - on the outside of the sleeve and a fingerfull into the rubber boots.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: So, is it "common" to use anti-seize compound on caliper sliders and O-rings, or is it... unusual?

Non-lubricant-rated anti-seize should not be used where relative motion between parts is expected in service ... such as on caliper slider pins. Most anti-seize compounds are not lubricants, which is a desirable property in many applications. There is also the question of compatibility of rubber seals and O-rings with the oil carrier in any given anti-seize product. On the other hand, the data sheet for Permatex® Anti-Seize Lubricant specifically describes it as a lubricant.

Me? With so many application-specific brake greases available at low cost, I buy and use them for my slider pins and other brake parts that require lubrication ... and I use anti-seize for threaded fasteners and close-fitting assemblies that do not move in service. FWIW, I use anti-seize on virtually every threaded fastener, and I'm still using a can of the stuff that I bought more than 40 years ago. Properly used, a little anti-seize goes a long way.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-16-2010).]

Use only the synthetic brake grease on the slide pins. neversieze is not a lubricant, it is meant to dry out and leave behind a graphite base that will not allow rust to bind the parts together.

As a matter of fact, if you want to stop squeeking brakes, use brake grease on the back side of the pads where they contact the caliper frame and piston face. ( a light coat) works everytime, which is more than I can say about that spray on brake quiet or any of the tubes that come with the pads that are a sticky hardening goop.

I've seen anti-siezed sliders before and it drys out and cakes up bad. I use silicone grease or, if in a pinch and don't have some, wheel bearing grease or suspension grease, but usually as a last resort.

[This message has been edited by Freshj (edited 02-16-2010).]

I appreciate the responses to my inquiry. Here's some more background as to why I started this thread...

At our local Fiero club's forum, someone mentioned the use of anti-seize compound on caliper sliders and O-rings. To be honest, I was shocked.

I had never heard of anti-seize compound being used on caliper sliders before and I was rather appalled. These are brake components we're talking about, not something to be taken lightly and fudged with!

However, what I was entirely unprepared for was the reaction from a couple other club members who have totally dismissed my concerns. That was an eye opener.

I wish to thank everyone here for their insight and feedback.

Sorry...late in the game here but I just saw this thread.

Anyways, I have always used Raybestos Moly-Paste for the sliders and the outside of the
caliper that slides along the bracket. My understanding is that moly-paste is THE correct
lubricant for brake components.

Lastly, one thing I'm confused about is why someone would want to substitute something
that is more expensive in the first place? Unless i'm mistaken, anti-seize, pound for pound,
dollar for dollar is more expensive. Maybe they had a bunch of it lying around????

Kit

I would also think the grease or whatever is used as the suspension agent in anti-sieze might also cause the o rings to swell.

One other thing I do is to pack the void where the caliper pin goes with the brake caliper grease. If you look there is a fairly large hollow area around the pin between the o rings. (on some caliper like the Fiero) Any water that happens to find it's way in there will not leave quickly.
My thought is packing it as full as I can will reduce the space for any water to collect in.

I fill it up some and then as I slide the pin and bolt in I place a finger over the other end so the grease does not push out but is forced to move around the pin.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 02-16-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: Lastly, one thing I'm confused about is why someone would want to substitute something that is more expensive in the first place? .... Maybe they had a bunch of it lying around????

As I said - CHEAPNESS (as in too cheap to go and buy the correct product if they don't have it)

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-16-2010).]

Use Brake Grease.

Anti Seize is a "Lubricant" but lube can mean many things.

Use Brake Grease.


Anti seize may be common but its the wrong kind for Oring etc. Use Anti seize on Threads, not slide area and/or Oring parts.

Worse... Anti seize may have oil in some/all brands. Oil + Brake Rubber part = Bad. Oil can cause swelling in rubber parts.

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Synthetic lube doesn't cause the O-rings to swell. Swollen O-rings mean no caliper movement.

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 02-16-2010).]

I just serviced the brakes on my Fiero for the first time - I just got the Fiero last May and the brakes had been service for the registration safety by the previous owner. Just for the record I have serviced the brakes on all my cars (and families cars too) for many years.

During the brake service on the Fiero I made a surprising discovery about the lubrication on the caliper slider pins.

I have used Permatex Ultra Slick Synthetic Brake Lubricant for several years now and never had any issues.

I read the factory shop manual for my 85 Fiero before starting the brake maintenance and noticed it said to use silicon caliper grease. I thought yeah okay the Permatex caliper grease should be fine - the manual is 25 years old, etc.

So I went a head and started the brake maintenance - shortly after I started something came up (I had one caliper done) and I didn't get back to it for a day (my Fiero is stored for the winter in a heated garage) I'm not sure why I decided to check how the caliper (serviced on the previous day) moved on the pins - but I'm glad I did. The caliper would not move at all. I was shocked - eventually I was able to press the pins out. I completely cleaned the caliper pins and cavities and reassembled it with the permatex grease. Okay everything now moved freely. I started on a second caliper, cleaned grease and finish it up. Then just for fun I went back to the first caliper - and found to my total shock it would once again would no longer move - I'm thinking what frack is going on... So I know I'm thinking of all the things it could be and I remember the "silicon caliper grease" note in the manual... So I take the caliper apart again, clean it up and grease it silicon grease. That made all the difference the caliper move freely even the next day (I checked for several days in a row actually). So now all the calipers on the Fiero are lubricated with "silicon caliper grease" just like the manual states.

Now the one caliper that had the Permatex grease in it over night never did move as freely as the other calipers so I wound up changing the rubber caliper pin seals in it. It now moves as freely as the other calipers.

So in my experience the choice of caliper lubricant you use can make the difference between brakes that work right and brakes that don't work right. I certainly wouldn't use anti-seize compound.

Don't get me wrong the Permatex has worked for me in the past but I'm going to very careful about what type of vehicle and brakes get what type of grease because it does really seem to matter.

This thread has become very informative indeed. Thanks for sharing your experiences everyone!

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Syl-Glide - on the outside of the sleeve and a fingerfull into the rubber boots.

Yes this is what you want to use. NAPA sells it and it is manufactured in Muskegon.

Isn't antiseize abrasive?

As of now, I don't use anything on the brakes....

I always us antisieze on my brake sliders and bolts and never had a problem

Just last week, a classmate and I found two stuck rear calipers on a 05 Dodge Durango. Turned out to be the slide pins had been lubed with anti-seize. We're being taught to not use chassis (suspension type) grease because it can cause the seals to swell. We use a green grease, not sure of the name, but silicone will work well too.

Brandyn

quote Originally posted by fierosound: As I said - CHEAPNESS (as in too cheap to go and buy the correct product if they don't have it)

He's right...as many folks want their car to last without doing maintenence. Like installing used parts instead of buying new.

Again, well said fierosound...

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fierogt28

88 GT, loaded, 5-speed

"Sliders" doesn't mean what you think.
Slider Not = Free Movement.

O-ring is an outer pad spring. Has to move whole caliber to move outer pad one or two 100^th inch.
If it didn't... Rotor and outer pad can burn up.

But It won't move.... I just lube it. (and use brake grease to.)

Not suppose to at hand pressure.

Slider and O-ring will move if it needs to move. Slider needs Brake pressure to move the O-ring.

Slider Lube has 2 function:
1. Keep Slider and Slider's bore from rust/corrosion. (Put grease in Slider's hole too! Just coat it to keep water out.)
2. Keep O-ring from sticking permanently.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)