I recently replaced my clutch pedal assembly due to sheering off part of the pin for the banjo, when I did this I redid the bushings as well, and, well broke off part of my clutch safety switch.

Today I got tired of having to manually push in the CSS (again since it keeps popping out of the hole...) so I went to put it back in, and noticed my entire clutch pedal swivels on the bolt that connects the brake and clutch pedal assemblies. I think I might have broke the outer portion of the bushing when putting it together, but don't see that causing the swivel, unless the bushing has degraded that much already (3 months or so).

Since it's a PITA to get that thing in and out, I don't want to just pull it our to check the bushing, so I'm looking to see if anyone has ideas for what else could be wrong, or possibly a part number for the Help! part since ordering just the bushings is rather pricey.

Sounds like you will have to pull it out to fix it anyway. Maybe you can take it with you down to the local hardware store and size up a bushing that works.

-Dave

I definitely would, but currently it's my only car, and driving it w/o the clutch would be a little tough

I'm not sure I understand which bolt are you referring to. There are only three bolts that hold the clutch pedal assembly to the brake pedal assembly... two short screws that hold the brackets together and the long pivot bolt that the clutch pedal is supposed to swivel on. Use this picture and describe what you think is going wrong:

quote Originally posted by DougC: ...and noticed my entire clutch pedal swivels on the bolt that connects the brake and clutch pedal assemblies.

Yeah, I didn't understand that either.

What do you mean by "the" bolt? As mentioned above, there are three of them involved.

It's able to twist side to side on the pivot bolt, instead of the normal back and forth

It doesn't seem to change where the banjo pin rests, but I do notice if I pull up on the pedal at a stop light the whole pedal assemble will kind of realign to the way it should rest, and I can shift into first easier.

It sounds like you had it right... the bushing must be screwed up. That, or else the nut came off the pivot bolt and the end of the bolt has slid out of the bracket at the clutch pedal. Check that first.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: It sounds like you had it right... the bushing must be screwed up.

Geez, if I remember correctly, the nylon "bushing" is only about a millimeter thick. Even if the bushings were missing completely I don't understand how there could be a whole lot of slop. I suspect there are some bolts loose somewhere.

I'll check the bolts in the morning, and see if my camera has fresh batteries; if the bolts aren't loose I'll snap some pictures of the movement.

Thanks for the replies thus far

Finally got a decent enough day to go out and take some pictures. The bolts seem tight, don't really have the tools to tighten them down right now, but from what I could do they all seem good. Bushing look OK as far as I can see with it installed (again no tools to take it apart, not until next weekend.)

Here are some pics to better describe what's going on:




This is when I pull it all the way up


This is the normal nothing is touching the pedal resting position


The next two show off the side to side movement the best

I've rotated your image so it makes more sense.

quote Originally posted by DougC:

I can't really tell what's going on in the pictures in regards to your problem, but one thing I do notice is that the starter lockout switch (or switches) on your clutch pedal looks different than on my '84.

I'm confused. You appear to have two switches. I have just the upper one.

Which one of those two switches actually controls the starter lockout on your Fiero?

I have nothing where your bottom switch appears to be (just an empty mounting "hole"). Interesting...

[EDIT] After a bit of research, I believe the bottom switch is involved with cruise control.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-02-2010).]

Heh, I should have rotated them I guess, does help a little.

Basically I'm getting side to side movement with my pedal, along with up down (not as in using it), and also twisting. To my untrained mechanic mind it seems like the inner diameter of the new pedal is too large for what it's mounted on, and/or a little short (so it's not making good contact with the bushings, and those are not being pushed against the mounting bracket) allowing the twisting.

This weekend I'll have access to more tools so I can double check the bolts to see if they are in fact loose, but from what I could do they seem tight.

Also what I could see of the bushings looked ok, so I don't want to order any, but if anyone know a HELP! part number (or maybe they have their catalog online somewhere?) I'll pick up new ones just in case...

Oh, and *bump* heh

After looking at your pics, it looks like the bushing is wrong, or the pedal and bushing is wrong. Would it be possible to pull the pedal, and the pivot bolt, to find bushings of the correct thickness?
Can you take careful measurements of the clutch pedal ID, and then the OD of the pivot bolt? That way you don't have to take the parts with you to the store.
Assuming the other bolts are all tight.

-Dave

I doubt this is the case, but it's still worthwhile asking... Is there any chance that the metal sleeve that goes over the pivot bolt and into the clutch pedal is missing? (The two nylon bushings go between this sleeve and the pedal.)

That would certainly explain all the slop you're experiencing if the bolts are all tight.

I'll check for the metal sleeve this weekend, and the pedal assembly and bushings were bought from the Fiero Store so I hope they aren't the wrong size. I'll see about taking some measurements this weekend if all else fails.

quote Originally posted by DougC: I recently replaced my clutch pedal assembly due to sheering off part of the pin for the banjo, when I did this I redid the bushings as well...

quote Originally posted by DougC: I'll check for the metal sleeve this weekend...

Doug, you replaced the clutch pedal as well as the thin nylon bushings, right?

Do you not then recall putting the metal sleeve into the pedal with the nylon bushings prior to positioning the pedal in the bracket and pushing the pivot bolt through it?

If you put the bushings into the pedal and installed it without the sleeve we're taking your mancard and Fiero away.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-04-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Doug, you replaced the clutch pedal as well as the thin nylon bushings, right? Do you not then recall putting the metal sleeve into the pedal with the nylon bushings prior to positioning the pedal in the bracket and pushing the pivot bolt through it? If you put the bushings into the pedal and installed it without the sleeve we're taking your mancard and Fiero away.

Well I followed the directions that were sent with the clutch pedal, and I don't remember it saying anything about the sleeve... Is it something I need to snag from the old assembly or should it have come with the new one?

And you can take my mancard and Fiero away when you pry them from my cold dead hands :P

*Edit*
Also I followed Archie's instructions that can be found here:

http://www.v8archie.com/arch6.htm

The instructions are very similar, and there's no mention of a metal sleeve

[This message has been edited by DougC (edited 03-04-2010).]

quote Originally posted by DougC: I don't remember it saying anything about the sleeve... Is it something I need to snag from the old assembly... ?

YES !!! ...

I think we've discovered the reason for the slop.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I looked over Archie's instructions. He calls it a pivot "pin", not to be confused with the pivot "bolt". There will an agent from PFF to see you tomorrow morning to collect your mancard and Fiero.

Well... S***. Hope my bro still has my old pedal assembly.

*puts on a disguise consisting solely of a fake mustache and removal of his glasses* Yeah, he left in a hurry, took the car, screaming something about "They'll never take me alive!"

Ok, I'm here at my bro's and I'm not finding the pivot "pin" and hope someone somewhere has a photo of what it looks like. Is it something I can buy somewhere, or maybe fabricate easily?

ugh!

*bump*

I don't have a manual transmission anymore, So I don't have a clutch pedal on hand to go look at. I went back through some pictures (35mm from when I did have a clutch) and could not find anything useful, sorry. However, I don't remember having a pivot pin / metal sleeve, as Archie's instructions say. I had the nylon bushings and nothing more. I can't recall ever having any issues, but I pulled that system out back in 2000-2001. I do not doubt what Archie lists, it may just be the terminology language barrier.
I Think I still have the clutch pedal assembly (in storage), so I will go take a look tomorrow to be sure. If I have it, I will take some newer pics.

The P22 Manual (page 41) does show a sleeve (part # 10035665 I think) and a spacer (part # 10036577 I think), but they look like the bushings. There is no mention or listing of a bushing.

-Dave

I had a look at my old aluminum pedal too and I found nothing that resembled a sleeve on the inside of the "tube" that is swaged onto the top of the pedal. A plastic thin-walled bushing sits in either end of the tube and the pivot bolt slides into the plastic bushing... no inner sleeve. In fact, the ID of the tube at the top of the pedal is only 12mm according to my trusty-dusty ruler and the piovt bolt is an M10 (ie 10mm dia) according to the P22. That leaves only enough room for the 1mm wall thickness of the plastic bushing.

I too looked in the P-Book for the sleeve and found the same as IFLYR22. One of the parts he listed above is the big white bushing that held the old return spring. I'm not sure what the "spacer" is though... it might be the plastic pivot bolt bushings.

Thanks Blooz and IFLY, I was thinking to my self, "Self, if they required such a part, wouldn't they include a new one, or build it to tighter specs to eliminate it?"

I found the bolts were sort of loose, tightened the pivot bolt up (too much, then backed off, still needs some adjustment) and one of the U-bracket bolts had like a 1/4 of a turn. Working great again

Thanks for all the help guys!

And Patrick, you better call off the mancard removal team

quote Originally posted by DougC: I found the bolts were sort of loose, tightened the pivot bolt up (too much, then backed off, still needs some adjustment) and one of the U-bracket bolts had like a 1/4 of a turn.

How could you tighten up the pivot bolt "too much"? I bet the pedal started to bind, didn't it? That's because the metal sleeve is missing. It acts like a spacer to keep the bracket from binding on the pedal.

Both my '84 and my '87 have the same sleeve.

I'll have to dig through my odds and ends and find my extra clutch pedal because I wired the sleeve right to it. I'll post a picture of 'em.

quote Originally posted by DougC: And Patrick, you better call off the mancard removal team

You're not off the hook yet, Doug!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-06-2010).]

Okay, here you go...

This is with everything assembled.


This is with the sleeve pulled out just a bit.


Everything apart.


Tighter shot.


One might begin to suspect that you guys didn't believe me!

2 votes against your 1 for, but you do have pictures...

Seeing your pictures though, I do recall my old pedal assembly NOT having one of those. Just the two plastic bushings (like my current one).

Maybe the sleeve us just something extra for the Canadian Fiero's

You mention is acts like a spacer to keep the bracket from binding the pedal, which would be handy, as I'm sure what tightening I did today will have to be redone after a while since it's not fully tightened down. Hopefully IFLY finds his old parts and can take some measurements for reference.

Not only do my '84 and my '87 have the sleeve, but I removed a clutch pedal from an '86 at the wreckers which also had the sleeve.

I find it rather unlikely that I've ONLY come across Fieros with sleeves in their clutch pedals (from three different years of production) if some actually came without them.

Why would Pontiac have installed two different types, especially when without a sleeve the pedal will bind if the pivot bolt is tightened "too much"?

Quite a mystery, eh?

Very much a conundrum. Hopefully through some sleuthing we can find a part number for this, or a generic part that works, and I don't relish the idea of having to readjust the pedal constantly, it's a pain in my neck (literally!).

Wonder if the PO replaced the pedal assembly and didn't put the sleeve in the new one. I like that theory, and I'm sticking to it. Harumph.

That 'sleeve' acts as a bearing. The bolt tightens down on the 'sleeve' and the plastic bushings prevent the pedal from binding on the frame of the bracket. The sleeve is fractions of an inch longer than the tube which is welded into the pedal itself. If you can get me an OD on that 'sleeve' I might be able to come up with some of the plastic bushings as we used to use some very similar on a piece of air conditioning equipment. I might still be able to get them......