There are hardly any posts like this. I know the exact same work is required for an NA engine as the SC engine. The NA engine was not only cheaper, but this is my sisters car. We're aiming for 35+ MPG which should be easy to achieve. The car is a daily driver and she does a lot of commuting. She is not really concerned with performance, but rather reliability and economy. The 3800 NA with the 4t65 NON-HD is a cheap engine and trans combo with rock solid reliability. I am keeping the EGR and EVAP along with a cat converter. Its very common for these engines to leak intake gaskets and for the UIM to warp and leak as well. These are going to be replaced as general maintenance since they'll eventually have to get done anyways.

So here's the engine as I got it.




Here it as I started to strip down the engine...


Intake manifold removed.


All cleaned up...


New LIM gaskets installed...


Upper intake installed...


Very simple belt routing... This uses a 5060835 gatorback belt.


Here are the heater hose fittings cut down and tapped for 1/2" NPT fittings..


Home depot elbows and barbs allow for easy heater hose hookup.




Here is very simple fuel line hook up... Use the 4cyl fuel lines and then get the GM quick disconnect ends from the HELP section. Then you just need two short sections of hose and some hose clamps.


I used a tubing bender to modify the stock transmission lines to contour to fit in the fiero. I only have one picture as of now.


Now onto axles. Remember I'm using the NON-HD transmission.

The driverside uses a STOCK automatic driver side axle.


The passenger side uses a STOCK manual driver side axle. NO dealing with piecing stuff together!!!


Now its onto wiring, UGH. This will be the same whether the swap is NA or SC.








Can't forget the transmission wiring!






And more engine wiring...




Start of the C500 wiring..


Finally start to get some stuff loomed!






Trans wiring and IAT + EVAP wiring all loomed up, along with the FP and the AC relays...




C500 wiring all tidied up!


Spacer plate made and the coils relocated.


Here is the wiring finished!!


Bracket modfied for the stock throttle cable.


STOCK 3 speed shift cable and bracket. Yes, if you flatten out the 'ears' that bend downward, it bolts right up!


That's all for now. I'll update later. I can't find ANY 3800 NA swap threads. I figured I would at least start this one to try to get the ball rolling. I know this is mostly just a picture flood for now but I'll fill in the details when I get a chance.

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 11-30-2009).]

Verry nice install. Who did you get the 3800 mounts from?

I'm using stock rubber cradle side mounts. I made the front engine mount and I purchased fieroaddiction trans side brackets. The dogbone I made, which isn't pictured yet.

sweet. Keepn this in the archives. Just got my donor car, been driven it around testin the motor out.

Hey, I'm right in the middle of a NA swap now too!

There are others..

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/101909.html

Keeping an eye on this too. I've got my wife's '86 with a blown 2.8 and a wrecked '98 Olds Intrigue with a 3800 NA sitting in the garage right now.

Feel like coming to PA and doing a swap?

Just got a '96 80kmi. motor/4T60E mounted on an '86 cradle w/ WCF trans. mounts. Started cleaning the motor up and am gathering parts needed for swap into my '87 GT. It seems since I decided to do this swap that 3800NA swap postings on this forum have started flowing daily! I love this forum! Dug up this swap thread by Darth Fiero that should be helpful:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050119-2-053505.html

Good post. Thanks for the photos and info. I'm kind of thinking about this too. Just haven't made the jump yet . . . . .

Bet your ass I'm into this thread. Right in the center of my plan. Nice work on those wiring harnesses.

Finally got the dogbone bracket painted up and installed.







and the decklid 'notch'

Wow John this is amazing work. I hope you're going to NC for engineering. Top notch.

Nice work John. That dogbone bracket is the one sold by West Coast Fiero is it not? Regardless it appears to be a solid design but on seconf though mounting it on an aluminum bracket for support may stress it. As for the engine; 3800 N/A series II engines produce 200 HP stock. With a bit of messaging you should be able to squeeze out 210HP. Thats far better than the 140 Hp of the 2.8L and superior to a 3.4L P/R engine. Although you are not building for speed, I'd venture to say that the car will run low 14's and with a turbo high 12's.
One question though. You claim that you are using two driver side axles without piecing them together. The tripots are different on both sides of all autos. One has a splined shaft the other has a splined recess so how could ANY driver side axle be used on a 4T65e on the passenger side?

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 08-05-2009).]

Hi John,

Nice install going there. The L26 is getting so reasonable that a low low mileage engine and trans with install is going to be get to $6000 turnkey. GM was nice enough to continue the L26 I think to 2010 from what I had read at one time. Not sure if that is the case still.

That alt / dogbone bracket style on a SUPERCHARGED engine will crack the alt housing. I have seen it happen on 2 people's here in DFW already. I think on the NA however, it will be fine.

http://www.fastfieros.com gives 2 thumbs up ...

quote Originally posted by fffttt1: Just got a '96 80kmi. motor/4T60E mounted on an '86 cradle w/ WCF trans. mounts. Started cleaning the motor up and am gathering parts needed for swap into my '87 GT. It seems since I decided to do this swap that 3800NA swap postings on this forum have started flowing daily! I love this forum! Dug up this swap thread by Darth Fiero that should be helpful: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050119-2-053505.html

I was trying to get the money together to buy that engine when it disappeared off CL. Oh well, hope it goes good for ya'

Loyde, thanks for the heads up, I'll keep an eye on it. The dogbone I made but I based it off of pictures I had seen.

Ok, so just so everyone knows, DON'T FORGET THE PCV O-RING. I found that out the hard way. Took the car out for its first drive and I kept hearing a loud squeel. The crankcase was under vacuum. I did a search and found that I was missing an o-ring on the pcv. I put that on there, and bam, squeel was gone.

Some video of the car started up and running...

You're my hero, I'm doing the same swap. Well, after I get the suspension done. Any issues/difficulties stick out in your mind?

You stated that you used 4 cyl fuel line. Is that rated for the high pressure fuel injection of the 3800? If not I would be very leary. Just my 2 cents.

After reading your thread I realized that I could try to mount my 3 speed auto shift cable mounting bracket the same way you did. I need to heat up the ears and bend them flat as you did before I can say for sure. I am using a 4T60E with my 4.9 swap. It looks like it will work. Thanks, and a + for your great idea.
Joe Crawford
Texas

Quick question: What year engine was this? Looks like a '99+ if I'm not mistaken.

Trying to get clarification on the axles used. The passenger side axle used is a 5spd. manual driver side axle? The driver side axle used is the 4T65E driver side axle? (in my swap it will be a stock 4T60E driver side axle)
Thanks, Ray.

This is the inspiration that I've been looking for! I am lost in the middle of a 3800 4T65e swap. This gives me some direction.

quote Originally posted by GS Jon: Quick question: What year engine was this? Looks like a '99+ if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, its a 2001 Buick Lesabre.

quote Originally posted by fffttt1: Trying to get clarification on the axles used. The passenger side axle used is a 5spd. manual driver side axle? The driver side axle used is the 4T65E driver side axle? (in my swap it will be a stock 4T60E driver side axle) Thanks, Ray.

Close. The passenger side is a manual fiero driverside axle (4spd and 5spd manual are the same), so you were right with this one. The driverside axle, however, is a stock fiero automatic driver side axle. To sum it up, you need a driverside axle from both a manual and automatic fiero.

So the driver side axle used for the swap is a driver side axle from a Fiero 3spd. automatic. Cool......thanks for the clarification. I work at a nuclear plant, and all our communications have to be 3 way exchanges.......so I get really confused when my "real life" communications are not executed the same!! LOL!!!
Thanks, Ray.

I got to ask what coolant do you use? dexcool or green stuff? just wondering and the reason your using what you used.

I rinse the engine out of all the dexcool and use the typical old green stuff that came in the fiero. I use this because to me its easier to keep up with. It doesn't turn to pudding and its easier than flushing out all the fiero coolant.

thanks man. I was thinking the same thing as the engine im working with has pudding in it as you put it. was curious if it had an effect running good ol green stuff. thanks for you update and keep up the great work.

Nice job John. Looks pretty sweet!

One thing I want to throw out there. Your drivers side axle is tinky. A 4T60-E drivers side axle from a Corsica or something like it is a direct fit too, and is as strong as a Manual Fiero Axle.

Its probably not going to break, but it is a really light duty axle.

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: Nice job John. Looks pretty sweet! One thing I want to throw out there. Your drivers side axle is tinky. A 4T60-E drivers side axle from a Corsica or something like it is a direct fit too, and is as strong as a Manual Fiero Axle. Its probably not going to break, but it is a really light duty axle.

Tell that to both the axles on my turbo car.

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: Your drivers side axle is tinky.

We've been using the stock auto driver side axle on the other two 3800 SC swaps with no issues. I understand that it IS a weak point compared to the manual axles but we've had no issues on the supercharged cars and so I'm assuming I won't have any issues with a low powered NA car. The other benefit of using the fiero automatic driver side axle is that we already had it. Most people who do this kind of work on fieros can easily come across free auto axles, while the corsica unit I would either have to get new/reman or pay a junkyard way more than its worth.

You do bring up a good point though and it is an issue others may wish to address if they're looking for more power, or if they break the fiero auto unit.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I'm assuming I won't have any issues with a low powered NA car.

Woopedie doo, 40 more lb/ft of torque, and 35 more HP. You blown boys (wait, that sounds really bad) ain't THAT far ahead of us NA guys..

OK, how about an update here!!

I've been in NC at school for about 2 weeks now. My sister has been daily driving the car in CT since its been completed. She drove the car from CT to NC (over 800 miles) just yesterday. The car has been running great since I've left and there are really no major updates to report.

One thing I found interesting, however. She took the car to CT emissions and they ran it on the rollers for the sniffer test. The car passed the sniffer test with flying colors. They also test the gas cap, which passed. Ironically enough, they had to fail the car for NOT having a catalytic converter. The guy at the station said he was really surprised it passed and when a car is missing a cat it will fail noticeably. He also told her the car must have had a recent tune up because its running really clean and great for a 1986 car. She simply replied "yeah, my brother works on it from time to time to keep it in good shape". I'm going to put a cat on it for legal reasons and because we're hoping to quiet it down. It was just neat to see that even without a cat the car was well under the legal emissions limits.

Well congradulations are in order. I am gonna try to get the transmission shifter bracket and shifter arm for mine ready to go on the transmission tomorrow. I am gonna try to do it the way you did yours. Keep us all posted.
Joe Crawford

Super job! Really well done man.

Thanks for all the good words guys. Here are some exhaust build pictures which I haven't posted yet..

I presume you were able to retain the trunk with that setup, yes? Also, what type of mufflers are those? I know you've said the exhaust was loud, but other than the volume how does the exhaust sound?

I don't recall the brand of mufflers. I bought them from summit and they were rather cheap. They're a straight through design with 'scallops' inside. The exhaust sounds good while at idle and cruise. When you start to lay into the throttle is when it gets loud and sound rather bad, honestly. I'm hoping the addition of the cat will help the sound out a bit. I did keep a full size trunk with this exhaust setup.