As everyone knows the EGR tube on the 2.8 v6's has some issues. I have 261,000 on my 86 SE and have replaced two of them due to rusting and breaking. Well, the tube broke again so I "manufactured" one. Following is my fix:

Go to your local hardware store and purchase a foot of 1/2" flexible copper tubing, one 90 degree 1/2" elbow and a small tube of Silver Solder. Total cost about $15.00. Less if you have the silver solder around as this is the most expensive part. Silver solder melts at a higher temperature than regular solder. (Silver solder at 600-700 degrees compared to less than 450 for regular 60/40 solder. I do not reccommend using regular solder for this reason.

Remove your old and broken egr tube. On each end is a steel flange and collar. Cut the pipe upstream of the collar and file the end to smooth it to allow the collar and flange to be removed from each end. Be careful not to damage the collars.

Cut the 1/2" copper tubing in two pieces, one about 6 3/4" long and the other about 1 1/2" long. Check the length for your application and engine before cutting and prior to soldering. Solder the two pieces to the 90 degree elbow using the silver solder and a small propane torch. You have to get the copper tubing quite hot to "sweat" the tubing into the elbow. Note: the tubing usually is on a big reel and has a natural curve to it when cut off the reel. I utilized this natural curve when I soldered my pieces so that it curved from the plenum to the egr valve.

Install the collars and flanges on each end of the tubing, flare the end of the tubing to prevent the collar and flange from comming off. I used a file to file down the end of the tubing to be flush with the flange. Make sure that you put the flange on correctly, it can be installed in reverse and this could cause a vacuum leak. Note: If you do not have a flaring tool, they are not cheap, contact your local plumber, he probably has one. If all else fails, use a hammer and punch to fold over the end of the tubing and file smooth. Use your ingenuity to accomplish this if you do not have the flaring tool. ***Don't forget to install your insulated silver "blanket" before putting on the last collar and flange.***

Reinstall on your 2.8. I have had mine on for more than 5,000 miles which included two 4 hour hard runs without stopping at 65+ Mph constant speed and is working fine. I know that the exhaust temp is quite hot(700-900 degrees or more) but it appears that the plenum end of the tube where it is soldered does not get hot enough to melt the solder. Really cheap and it works for me just fine.

[This message has been edited by wolfwolf (edited 07-10-2010).]

my main concern is:
copper is the most heat conductive metal
will this create a "hot spot"? expose everything around it to excess heat?

but, other than that concern - I really like the idea.

Yes that is true, however the original steel tube is also a conductor of heat but not to the extent of the copper. Also there is the insulating blanket that acts as a shield to prevent transfer of heat to the surrounding parts. If you leave that off you are asking for trouble.

I'd worry a little bit about temperature. Doesn't the exhaust manifolds and crossover get to 1000F. or so? I don't know about the EGR outlet Temps. There is/was a conversion someone sold on eBay that had used a short piece of flexible stainless gas connection hose and a 45 degree flare fitting on each end. I pretty much do all my EGR tubes in this fashion now. Especially on engine conversions. Works great!
Heres a teaser pic:

I removed the yellow paint before the final installation.

Mmmmm. DOHC! Looks nice (I sure do miss mine!)

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Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

I am not worried about temperature. I just ran it at 3000 rpm's for an hour. The maximum temp at the egr flange end of the tube was 339.8 F. The maximum temp at the plenum flange was 178.2 deg. F. The silver solder melts at 700 deg F. That is less that half of the melting temperature of the silver solder. Copper melts at 1984 deg F. in pure form. The temp increases with the addition of alloys. My distributor would melt first. What temps are you worried about? I can make one in about 15 minutes for about $4.00. That compared to the $99.95 egr tube sold on the internet.

quote Originally posted by wolfwolf: I am not worried about temperature. I just ran it at 3000 rpm's for an hour. The maximum temp at the egr flange end of the tube was 339.8 F. The maximum temp at the plenum flange was 178.2 deg. F. The silver solder melts at 700 deg F. That is less that half of the melting temperature of the silver solder. Copper melts at 1984 deg F. in pure form. The temp increases with the addition of alloys. My distributor would melt first. What temps are you worried about? I can make one in about 15 minutes for about $4.00. That compared to the $99.95 egr tube sold on the internet.

My only concern would be having to redo even more piping in copper just to keep a uniformed (albeit unique) look

For those non believers, I have now over 6,000 miles on my EGR tube fix and still working great. BTW if you are concerned about the copper color, you forgot to put the insulating blanket back on when you replaced the tube.

I have my 87 GT for 16 years. I had to re-weld the EGR tube twice till I replace it by the Fiero Store flexible braided pipe.
(http://www.fierostore.com/Product/Detail.aspx?s=67019&d=215&p=1)

Hope this helps,

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Bernard
Fiero V6 GT 1987 (Manual)

This kit replaces your EGR tube with a steel gas supply line (as used to hook up a natural gas appliance). Once the kit is installed, if your tube ever breaks, you can get a new one at Lowes or Home Depot.

The Fiero Store EGR $ 99.00 + Shipping, TopNotch's suggested "Kit" $79.95 + Shipping. The above "cheap fix" less than $15.00, and you have enough silver solder left to do about 10 more for your friends V6's. Do the math!.I am just providing an egr fix at a reasonable price that almost anyone can do in their garage that works and you get the satisfaction that you did it yourself.

I thought that I would resend this for those that have not seen it. I have had this "fix" in my V6 for more that 25,000 miles without a problem with heat that a couple were concerned about.

Wolfwolf,

Do you happen to have any photos of the tube without the blanket? I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the text description...

I have silver-brazed several small things in my time so I'm not scared to attempt this but the Fiero is my only car and I've never even had the EGR tube off. Soon enough I'm sure it's going to prove to be the cause of my occasionally surging, hot engine, idle...

Thanks in advance,

Red 5spd Formula
Trot, the red-hot, fox... } ; ]

One of the reasons auto manufacturers don't use copper to run fluids or vacuum is because of vibration. Apparently copper doesn't hold up in the long run in a moving environment. Stainless, Aluminum and plated steel are much more durable and are what is mostly used. I wish I could site the source but that's what I read about copper tubing. There's different grades of copper tubing but that's what I recall from the information. And that's the reason I use stainless steel corrugated gas lines in my ebay EGR kits as posted by TopNotch. The corrugation takes the vibration and the stainless takes the heat and corrosion in the engine bay. I'm not saying the material won't work, just won't be reliable in the long term as compared to a stainless or a steel tube. The main problem from my perspective is the vibration, expansion and contraction of the material.

[This message has been edited by IXSLR8 (edited 07-13-2010).]

Trotfox: pm sent