I'm at the point of my 88 restoration that I need to clean up my spindles. I've done some research and have found that the hubs are pressed into the spindle, which of course rusts together. I found a thread talking about pressing it out using three bolts, by threading them in the opposite way and applying pressure to the hub. I could see how this may damage the bearing race, so I'm unsure whether or not to separate the hub from the spindle to clean it up. I've been soaking it with Kroil for the past week and a half or so, in case I do decide to try and press it apart that way. Has anyone tried this method on good bearings before?

I also know that the inner bearing is not serviceable, but found a write-up on realfierotech (gasp) with pictures of the rear cap removed. This is the cap I am talking about:


If you want, you can check out the article at realfierotech, although I know many around here aren't too fond of the site. It does show the whole hub completely tore apart though: http://www.realfierotech.co...viewtopic.php?t=6321

Anyway, how many of you have repacked this inner bearing? I'm debating on whether or not I want to try that as well. I just want to get the most life I can out of the front bearings, since the aftermarket ones dont seem to hold up very well. Thanks for any input.

I have a pair I picked up at a pull it yard. They where also stuck. I pushed them out with a hydraulic press. Have to find a pipe that hits on the very outside of the top hat cap so you don't damage anything.
I will flush them out at some point and then regrease with a needle.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: I have a pair I picked up at a pull it yard. They where also stuck. I pushed them out with a hydraulic press.

I had to do the same thing to a spare pair of '88 front knuckles/bearings I purchased, but since I had access to a lathe at the time I just made my own press piece. As I remember, it still took quite a bit of pressure to break the rust bond between the hubs and the knuckles ... even after repeated applications of PB Blaster. Go slow, and they will eventually break loose. I would be very reluctant to use the bolts-applied-to-the-back-side-of-the-hub-flange method on a hub that I planned to use again. You don't want to ruin a good '88 hub cartridge unless you absolutely have to.

When installing new hub cartridges, I always apply a thin film of water resistant grease (e.g. the sticky stuff used to lubricate urethane suspension bushings) to both the bore of the knuckle and the outer housing of the hub cartridge to facilitate future removal.

FWIW, there is a thread somewhere in the PFF archives that describes cleaning and relubricating '88 front hub cartridges, including pictures.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-28-2010).]

I see from the pictures it may be possible to drill and tap a hole for a grease fitting in the back of the cap. I don't see any way to re-pack the bearings. I'm not sure I understand what this thread is about.

Dave

For a current good set of bearings, it is better to press them out as stated above. I have extra long bolts and do use the bolt method often on worn bearings.

Since all I focus on are the 88's, I figured out a way to clean and relube the front 88 wheel bearings.

Pop the rear cap off and start filling the bearing assy with WD40 or some other penetrating oil to help soften/loosen the old grease:


Then take a grease gun needle fitting and put a slight curve to it (or you can slide the WD40 flexible plastic needed onto it). It can then slide beteen the races and reach the outside bearing.



Once installed, start pumping greese until you start to see fresh grease coming back out. Then move over 1 bearing ball space and repeat. Do this in every gap, between every ball all around the bearing until all you get is fresh grease out. Wipe off the excess and put the cap back on.

I do not recommend installing a grease fitting on the cap (did it once), you will tend to over fill the cap and it will come back off at interstate speeds.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 03-01-2010).]

Thanks Guru
This will work.....I like it
Dave .

Wow, awesome replies! Thanks Guru, I am going to try that for sure. Do any of you have pictures of the pieces you made to press it out? I know someone with a press, so I suppose it wouldn't be impossible for me to try it that way. So the pipe you use on the backside fits around the very edge of the cap, but how do you hold the spindle in place? That's the one thing I can't figure out. Also, how did you remove the cap without damaging it?

I actually have some marine grease in the mail I was planning on using on my poly bushings, so I will have to start using that on places I don't want to rust. Thanks again for the useful info! I'm starting to feel more optimistic about this rebuild.

So then how do you take the hub out of the spindle if this is the wrong way? How would you use a harmonic balancer pulley to do the job?

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 03-02-2010).]

When you buy the GM rears to put on the front on an 88, are they ball bearings also, or do they have roller bearings?

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: So then how do you take the hub out of the spindle if this is the wrong way? How would you use a harmonic balancer to do the job?

Huh??? Who here said anything about a harmonic balancer?

quote Originally posted by josef644: When you buy the GM rears to put on the front on an 88, are they ball bearings also, or do they have roller bearings?

Huh??? Who here said anything about rear hubs?

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-02-2010).]

LOL... I love it when that happens...

"I, uh, didn't actually read the whole thread... here is my question..."

I think that he actually meant a harmonic balancer puller and I have no idea where Joe was going

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 03-02-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Huh??? Who here said anything about rear hubs?

On 88's one can use the rear hubs off of an 88 or fronts off of a 90's Cavalier for replacements on the 88's front if they install a large bolt threw the center. 88's rear hubs are plenty-ful, as are the Cavalier hubs. I think this adds about 10 mm on each side to the fronts.

That would make fitting wheels an even larger PITA than it already is. You need rather high offsets with 88s already due to the wider track in the front.

quote Originally posted by josef644: On 88's one can use the rear hubs off of an 88 or fronts off of a 90's Cavalier for replacements on the 88's front if they install a large bolt threw the center. 88's rear hubs are plenty-ful, as are the Cavalier hubs. I think this adds about 10 mm on each side to the fronts.

Now that I equiped can melt aluminum and sand cast it... a future project is to make some aluminum 88 front spindles with a 1" drop and modified geometry to accept the rear fiero wheel bearing w/o changing the overall front width and leave enough material there to allow further boring to accomodate the S10 4x4 front wheel bearing for the 4 3/4" pattern and bearing upgrade... It is way on the back burner, but now i have to tools to make it happen.

Held makes a dropped front spindle that accepts the 88 rear hub. Its pricey but its already done.

http://www.westshorefabrica...KitCarSuspension.htm

Rob

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050119-1-044690.html

quote Originally posted by josef644: When you buy the GM rears to put on the front on an 88, are they ball bearings also, or do they have roller bearings?

So now we are all on the same page, does anybody know what type of bearings the 88 rear hubs have?
Joe

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Now that I equiped can melt aluminum and sand cast it... a future project is to make some aluminum 88 front spindles with a 1" drop and modified geometry to accept the rear fiero wheel bearing.

Cast aluminum spindles? Are you sure this is a good idea? The strength and hardness needed for this critical part is unlikely achievable in a sand casting. Remember that all the forces from braking and cornering are transferred from the wheel to the chassis through the spindle/knuckle.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Cast aluminum spindles? Are you sure this is a good idea? The strength and hardness needed for this critical part is unlikely achievable in a sand casting. Remember that all the forces from braking and cornering are transferred from the wheel to the chassis through the spindle/knuckle.

It is worth looking into and doing some distructive testing on.
The strength obtained during the forging process is usually used to limit material use in the name of reduced weight (target an stength/stiffness value and use the bare minimum of material to achieve it). All I am after is a method to custom make the spindles to fit other bearings and incorporate a suspension drop w/o spending days on the mill cutting away a billet block. They will need to be physically larger with more material when cast aluminum is used to obtain acceptable strength, but since my goal is not lighter weight, there should be workable solution.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 03-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Cast aluminum spindles? Are you sure this is a good idea? The strength and hardness needed for this critical part is unlikely achievable in a sand casting. Remember that all the forces from braking and cornering are transferred from the wheel to the chassis through the spindle/knuckle.

If Ford can use cast aluminum control arms in their trucks (to reduce sprung weight), I would think a cast aluminum spindle would be ok for a much lighter car. And the reduction in sprung weight would improve handling.

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: If Ford can use cast aluminum control arms in their trucks (to reduce sprung weight), I would think a cast aluminum spindle would be ok for a much lighter car. And the reduction in sprung weight would improve handling.

As long as the aluminum Fiero part has the same amount of R&D and durability tested as the Ford part - go for it.

I would believe that the general shape of the upper and lower control arms which is a triangle spreads the forces and loads over a wider area. The spindle is under much more stress and the control arms your talking about are cast from a sintered not a pouring proses. The control over the strength outcome is much greater and will end up with a 70 or even an 80 series aluminum which has properties that are stronger than some steels. IE the so called aircraft aluminum is a 70 series ...Boats are made from 50 and 60 series aluminum.....a 40 series aluminum is easy to bend

I would use steel and fabricate a set of dropped spindles and the outcome would be very predictable. But casting them out of aluminum with lots of material will also work. It would be interesting,,there is a lot of incredible talent on this forum ,,,,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering.I'm not sure..But the process involves a very
Dave

My Grand Prix has cast aluminum spindles

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1986 SE 350 V8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_metallurgy

Here is how I removed the wheel bearings without using a press. I used a piece of pipe that fit around the outside edge of the cap that houses the inner bearing. I then tack welded a thick washer onto it and used a harmonic balancer puller to press it out.





The first attempt was unsuccessful, as the washer cracked. So I went overkill and welded two washers on top of it.



You can see how much pressure it was under, as the pipe was swelling out. I actually had to put pressure on it and use an air hammer around the edges of the spindle to get it to finally break loose.




Big surprise, rust!



Old grease


Now I have access to the inner bearing on each hub. I'm letting them soak with WD40 and plan to try and flush out this old grease as best I can. Has anyone ever used marine grease in their bearings? I've thought about trying it, but will probably go with wheel bearing grease just to be safe.

[This message has been edited by toadson (edited 03-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Now that I equiped can melt aluminum and sand cast it... a future project is to make some aluminum 88 front spindles with a 1" drop and modified geometry to accept the rear fiero wheel bearing w/o changing the overall front width and leave enough material there to allow further boring to accomodate the S10 4x4 front wheel bearing for the 4 3/4" pattern and bearing upgrade... It is way on the back burner, but now i have to tools to make it happen.

Sounds perfect, where do i send the money!

I have a pair of hubs that I am about to press out the cartridges. and have been applying PB for awhile now. I plan to reuse the cartridges (they are going to be redrilled for a different bolt pattern) and was wondering if I should be concerned about the PB leaking past the cap and into the bearings.

quote Originally posted by michfiero: I have a pair of hubs that I am about to press out the cartridges. and have been applying PB for awhile now. I plan to reuse the cartridges (they are going to be redrilled for a different bolt pattern) and was wondering if I should be concerned about the PB leaking past the cap and into the bearings.

The cap keeps water out, so I wouldn't be too concerned about the PB getting past it.

Hey All,

You are not gonna believe this. After applying PB for the last 3 days...I broke the bolts loose and the cartridges slid right out!! I went out and bought a lotto ticket.

Buy me one too please!

DG

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it