Evening Fiero Folks!

Well here I am - at the point where I need to make a decision. I am putting my SBC Coupe back together and I need to decide what I am going to do for the water pump. I do not like the pulleys hanging out in the wheel well. So, I was hoping that all those out there with Small Blocks and are using electric remote pumps would chime in and let me know what thier experience is. Pros and Cons? Thanks in advance.

Pat

Not sure if it helps but the engine bay is so "cramped" with the SBC in there, I didn't want an extra 2 hoses running to a remote pump mounted somewhere else. (This is my 3rd SBC swap). Although I'm not finished this one yet (Converting from Auto to Getrag at the same time), I went with the CSR Electric Water Pump on this build (2nd time) mounted to the stock location and just the "motor portion" of it sticks into the wheel well just a bit..

FYI, I used the Archie system on my first build and it worked just fine. I'm not a huge fan of the pulleys in the wheel well but the system works. I do prefer the electric pump. No Pulleys to mess with, no worries about hitting some debris that may strike the belt (Pretty darn rare - but can happen) and just the very end of the pump sticking into the wheel well. Best of both worlds. I do like the remote systems as well - just never did one.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 12-17-2010).]

I contacted Meziere about this for my LM7 Fiero project, and they kindly sent me a list of all the parts I'd need. It was pricey. They figured there will be no problem with placing the pump near the radiator for better balance. I asked why their pump was so much more $ than a similar alternative from Jegs, and they claimed better seals, better bearings, and a better warranty. I was only able to confirm the better warranty. However, if you go Meziere, and the pump ever needs service, Meziere doesn't sell parts, they make you ship your pump back to them.

I have an 87GT with a overbored 383 which gives me 388ci. I used an electric pump from CSR and Archies radiator and I have no cooling issues to date. My pump has one inlet and 2 outlets which happen to all be the right size. My pump is mounted low in front of the right rear wheel well and to the rear of the door. Hidden from sight and quiet. The two hose from the outlets enter the engine bay where the battery used to be and go directlty to the inlets on the block.

I did my csr pump like garage monster. I made a water manafold to fit the block so i have one hose from pump to block. I have the heater hose going to the pump inlet. the pump is rubber mounted, only a little bit of it shows. I have a build book of my car on youtube. "chevy v8 fiero-4" that shows how i did it. Be my guest !

quote Originally posted by garage monster: I have an 87GT with a overbored 383 which gives me 388ci. I used an electric pump from CSR and Archies radiator and I have no cooling issues to date. My pump has one inlet and 2 outlets which happen to all be the right size. My pump is mounted low in front of the right rear wheel well and to the rear of the door. Hidden from sight and quiet. The two hose from the outlets enter the engine bay where the battery used to be and go directlty to the inlets on the block.

a 383 IS over-bored. It comes from boring a 353 0.030" over. ( plus a stroker crank) a 388 requires a 4.060" bore size.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 12-17-2010).]

Last winter I switched from the Archie system to a CSR pump mounted directly to the engine, my only problem was that vertical clearance to the frame rail, the upstanding flange on the rail had been modified to clear the old mechanical pump, but the CSR was larger in diameter so additional modification was required to the frame rail to allow it to fit, this will depend of cource on how low your engine is mounted. Apart from that it works fine, makes more noise that the old pump, but the exhaust easily drowns that out !!!

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84SE, aero body, 4 speed and an injected 355 V8

quote Originally posted by Isolde: a 383 IS over-bored. It comes from boring a 353 0.030" over. ( plus a stroker crank) a 388 requires a 4.060" bore size.

Actually if you take a look, a generation 1 early 350 is 4.00 x 3.48 stroke.
Add a crank and you get a 383 that is 4.0 x 3.80 stroke.
Bore it 30 over and you get 4.030 x 3.80 stroke which is 387.77 cubic inches so I fudge and call it a 388.

Thanks everyone for your comments/replies. I am pretty much sold on an electric pump. I'm thinking I need to get one with the most flow - 55gpm is what I am seeing at Jegs & Summit. I think I want to do the remote and stash it 1n the right side quarter panel area. I'll check FFierofred's Youtube.

So I get this right, I will plumb from the right side coolant tube to the remote water pump and from the pump to the motor using a couple of "fittings/manifolds" then from the T Stat housing to the crossover/driver side coolant tube? Ensuring I have the remote pump oreintated to flow the "stock" direction? Are your pumps wired "hot" to the ignition or are you guys running a dedicated switch for the pump?

Now I just have to decide which pump - there was one in the Mall last night - I'll have to go look at that one.

Thanks again!

Pat

P.S. Comments on this pump!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EMP-E558AR/

Anyone have any experience with these setups?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-4333/
Wondering what the GPM rating is using the electric motor to spin a stock pump?

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 12-17-2010).]

quote Originally posted by garage monster: Actually if you take a look, a generation 1 early 350 is 4.00 x 3.48 stroke. Add a crank and you get a 383 that is 4.0 x 3.80 stroke. Bore it 30 over and you get 4.030 x 3.80 stroke which is 387.77 cubic inches so I fudge and call it a 388.

The 400 SBC crankshaft stroke is 3.75 not 3.80

My pump is wired hot to the ignition. It really needs to run at all times just like a pully driven pump. hate to forget to turn it on.

Mines been working fine, I also have it triggered with the key on. But I have been thinking about installing a temperature switch in the head and only running it when the motor gets to 160, I would also hook up a backup trigger in case the switch went bad in the head goes bad. I have it installed in the stock location and it does go into the wheel well a little but its working fine and has been keeping my engine cool for over 4 years now. It has been my DD for 2 years now.

quote Originally posted by garage monster: Add a crank and you get a 383 that is 4.0 x 3.80 stroke. Bore it 30 over and you get 4.030 x 3.80 stroke which is 387.77 cubic inches so I fudge and call it a 388.

Not to take the thread too far off topic but . . .

I've built (3) 383's (my only small blocks since I'm mainly a BBC and Olds guy).

As Isolde says, If you have a 388 cubic inch "350" you "should" have a 4.060 Bore , 3.75 Crank

a 350 block +0.060, + 400 crank with machined mains and stock rods gives you your 388.

Unless you are using a custom crank and stock 400 / custom rods. The stroker cranks are usually 3.875 to the best of my knowledge but it's been quite sometime since I've put one together. I could be mistaken but I don't recall a 3.80.

If your bore is 4.030 and you're using a machined 400 crank, you still have a 383 there.


On a side note..., you achieve a nice 395cid small block with a 4.030 bore 3.875 custom stroker crank and rods - so that's something to think about on your next tear down!

Maybe you have a custom crank in yours @ 3.80??

But hey.... if you're closer to the 383 - who cares anyway.... it's still a nice small block you have there.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 12-18-2010).]

Another question. Do I need 55gpm? What is everyone else running?

Pat

i am running a meziere and if i remember right its 55gpm or similar.

For the last 8 or 9 years, I have used these new high output electric W/P's exclusively on all the V-8 swaps we've done in house & it has been the recommended method on all the kits I've shipped out for most of that time.

22+ years ago when I started doing the V-8 swaps, you couldn't buy an electric W/P that could be used on the street. So I had to develop a way to drive a stock Chevy W/P without cutting the frame rail to drive the Chevy W/P with a belt. I tried one of these http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-4333/ & I can tell you that it couldn't keep up & that the electric motor was not intended to run a 100% duty cycle pulling the load of a SBC W/P. (<~~ NOT recommended) I tried a few things & ended up with the shaft & gearbelt setup that I used to use. That setup worked good for it's day, The only actual downside to that setup was that somtimes when doing burnouts, the molten rubber from the tire would stick to the inside of the gearbelt drive belt.

When doing a V-8 swap I don't shop for the cheapest part, I shop for the best part that is street rated. The first good electric pump to hit the market was the Morosso pn 63555. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-63555/ I tried this pump & at 19gpm & it was not street rated, it would just barely keep up in hard driving. Then CSI came out with the CSI-901 (CSI is now called CSR). This pump was street rated & put out 39gpm. Before I bought one of these pumps, i happened to be at the Chevy Vette Fest as McCormic Place in Chicago & CSI had a display there. I was considering the pump, so I went to their display started questioning them. I was questioning them on the "street" rating & on how long the pump would last (they had claimed 2000 hours). In their display, they has 2 high cube Chevy Vans that they hauled their goods around the country in. The guy I was talking to walked over & opened the hoods on the vans & there were CSI pumps on both trucks. Just as dirty as everything else in the engine compartments, these pumps looked as if they'd been on these trucks for a long time. I was sold.

I did some testing of the CSI pumps for about a year then started using them on all of my swaps.

I wend back in my bookkeeping program & I've bought 113 of the CSI pumps in the last 5 years. So you could say that i like them.

There are 2 of the CSI pumps that I've been buying, The CSI-901 it the version that bolts to the front of the engine & the CSI-925 is the remote pump.

We've used the CSI-925 pumps on all of the LS1, LS6, LS2, LS3, LS376 & LS7 swaps we've done. Plus we've used the CSI-901 & the CSI-925 pumps on all the SBC swaps we've done the last 8 or 9 years.

Now, I have to tell you that CSI (or CSR) has been having some financial problems for the last several months & their pumps have been very hard to get for a while now. In fact on the last 2 LS3 swaps we've done, we had to use the Meziere pump http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WP116SHD/ IMHO, this is even a better pump than the CSI.

Also note: on the CSI pumps, you also will need to buy a CSI fitting, pn CSI-908 to connect the return hose to the pump. For the Meziere pump you will need to buy 3 special fittings from them to hook it up to your cooling system.

If anyone is interested, I can post pics of most of this information &/or more part numbers if needed.

Archie

quote Originally posted by 3084me: Not to take the thread too far off topic but . . . I've built (3) 383's (my only small blocks since I'm mainly a BBC and Olds guy). As Isolde says, If you have a 388 cubic inch "350" you "should" have a 4.060 Bore , 3.75 Crank a 350 block +0.060, + 400 crank with machined mains and stock rods gives you your 388. Unless you are using a custom crank and stock 400 / custom rods. The stroker cranks are usually 3.875 to the best of my knowledge but it's been quite sometime since I've put one together. I could be mistaken but I don't recall a 3.80. If your bore is 4.030 and you're using a machined 400 crank, you still have a 383 there. On a side note..., you achieve a nice 395cid small block with a 4.030 bore 3.875 custom stroker crank and rods - so that's something to think about on your next tear down! Maybe you have a custom crank in yours @ 3.80?? But hey.... if you're closer to the 383 - who cares anyway.... it's still a nice small block you have there.

The GMPP crate "383" is really a 382, but does use a 3.80" stroke. However, GM uses a steel crank that, if purchased separately, runs near $1200. And even in the crate engine, the whole thing is way overpriced. So noone is dumb enough to buy that. It is, in fact, GM's worst-selling crate engine.
Now, back to the issue.
On a serious street 355, I found the 38 gpm version fully capable of cooling my old 10-second Camaro. It worked when I started with ported iron Vortec heads, it still worked when I swapped to AFR aluminum heads. I was in Georgia, whee the summers are hot but humid. I drove that car to the track more than 80 miles away, without issue, ran a best of 10.21 in the quarter, then drove home. No overheating.I even spent 2 hours in an Atlanta traffic jam, crawling along at 5-10 mph, in August, without overheating.
Running the 55 gpm version must be like running with no thermostat: won't give the coolant time to transfer any heat.
Running with no stat is a sure way to overheat. And if you have a stat with a serious pump, then the stat will restrict the flow somewhat, possibly causing the pump to cavitate. That'll kill the pump sooner than later.

Thanks Archie - that's all the info I needed. I like the Meziere pump and will be ordering it today. As always, your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Isolde - I am glad to hear that 38 - 40 gpm wokrs fine. I am thining a 180* T Stat will do the trick. This car won't get much driving in the Summer here in El Paso - No AC! Most likely a few evening runs at the drag strip and rod runs in the Fall Winter and Spring.

Thanks again to everyone for your replies - ii was a big help.

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 12-18-2010).]

quote Originally posted by katatak: Thanks Archie - that's all the info I needed. I like the Meziere pump and will be ordering it today. As always, your help is greatly appreciated. Pat

I know you don't need anymore info butI gotta show you these pics anyway.

This is how we mounted the Meziere on Jack Gunsett's LS3 swap (this would also work for a SBC mounting).

This is a view looking up into the rear fender area just outboard of where the battery used to be located. Note the W/P & surrounding area is Black. Once you reinstall the inner wheel well liner, you wouldn't be able to see up into this area.



Here is how it looks on the engine compartment side.



Note the Blue fittings are also parts you have to get from Meziere.

The Blue fitting in the middle is a WP1150B fitting 1.5" Hose Barb. We used it with a 90 deg. Street elbo so it would head directly to the right side water pipe. The other 2 fittings are WP1234B with the correct #12an fittings to screw directly into the pump & a 3/4" hose barb for hoses to run over to the front of the engine.

Take care.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 12-18-2010).]

Hey Archie, I can always use great info - thanks for posting the pics and part numbers for the fittings. I ordered the pump and fittings this evening. I know what toy I'll be playing with Christmas day.

Pat