A common problem with our cars is a malfunctioning wiper switch. Symptoms of a bad switch are the wipers making one wipe of the window when you use the turn signals or when you bump the steering wheel.

This specific problem is due to a bad wiper switch; Rodney's pulse wipe rebuild kit will not fix it.

I'm researching a fix for this problem and have found that there's several variations of the wiper switch used in Fiero steering columns.

What I'm starting to suspect is that this problem only affects certain wiper switch designs and that GM made a change along the way to improve the switch and prevent this problem. There may also be changes in the pulse wipe board that go along with the switch variations.

So I need a little help from my fellow Fiero owners: If your car has the specific symptoms listed above, please reply with the year of your Fiero and if it has a tilt wheel and / or delay wipers. This information will help me find a final cure for the annoying wiper anomalies.

1985 GT Tilt and Delay

Wiper switch bad
If you find a correction or a reasonably priced switch please let me know.

Ray

quote Originally posted by rdean: 1985 GT Tilt and Delay Wiper switch bad If you find a correction or a reasonably priced switch please let me know. Ray

Will do; just need to get a better idea of what years / equipment are affected...

85 Sport coupe, with tilt, intermittent wipers. comes on with both turn signals and headlight dimmer, 93XXX miles

86 Coupe, with tilt and intermittent wipers. comes on with left turn and headlight dimmer, 120XXX + miles.

86 GT, with tilt and intermittent wipers. No problems, 33XXX miles

I have found that periodically pulling out the turn lever and spraying electrical contact cleaner down into the turn signal switch (useing a red tube) stops the swipes for a short time. Usually comes back after about a week.

Dave

I noticed a problem the other morning, it has happened one other time and i figured i was just bumping the wipe button wile flicking on the turn signial.

by the way I have an 86 se with delay wipers

1986 2.8L V6, tilt steering wheel, intermitent wiper. Gets the ghost wipes when right turn signal is set or when I hit a pot hole. I've replaced the board recently (original burned out)..still does the ghost wipe but not as often. Let me know if you find a cure.....Thanks

86 GT, tilt steering, does exactly that, one sweep of the wipers. Happens mostly with left turns than right. Could there also be any correlation with between those with and without the cruise control mechanism on the stalk?
Thanks, hope you find the cure!!
Tom

'85 Fiero 2M4, intermittent/no cruise. Ghost wipe happens very sporadically. Intermittent works only on low and high (just before the low non-intermittent setting.)

I've got access to an '85 IROC-Z that's been wrecked. Will that switch unit and board work in the Fiero?

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Kendall (Icelander) Whitlatch
'85 Fiero 2M4 - 5spd Isuzu
'67 LeMans/GTO clone 6.5 litre TH400
All the rest aren't Pontiacs, so what does it matter?

85 SE with tilt wheel and intermittant wipers ... (but I think my problem might be the wiper motor board)

86 GT (I have delay) ...installed Rodney's "cap" kit but still get phantom wipes with turn signal usage.

Want to use my car as your wiper switch test bed? (wink wink... )

Kit

quote What I'm starting to suspect is that this problem only affects certain wiper switch designs and that GM made a change along the way to improve the switch and prevent this problem. There may also be changes in the pulse wipe board that go along with the switch variations.

I don't think so. I have a 92 GMC Sonoma that has the same switch, motor and board as the 88 Fiero. I fixed the ghost wipe on the 88 Fiero but haven't found the problem with the Sonoma. Replaced the switch and put Rodney's kit on the board. Only thing not replaced is the motor.

I suspect that GM never found a way to make the design work reliably. Why they didn't use a reliable timer like the 555 rather than a R/C circuit is beyond comprehension.

Are you sure the 92 GMC switch is the same? The fiero switch sells at Auto Zone for $107 and the GMC is $35.
Have you done this swap on a Fiero?
I don't mind $35 but $107 is seems unreasonable. The Fiero factory getts eeven more.

I might just try it anyway.

Ray

1986 2.8L V6 (in process of 3800SC II), tilt, intermitent wipers & cruise control. Various things trigger mine. Sometimes they just do the phantom wipe for no apparant reason at all. Sometimes when I start the car they do the 1 wipe thing when it starts. When I use the turn signal or hit a bump they will trigger the 1 wipe too. Sometimes it will go for weeks at a time without happening at all then out of the blue it starts again. I hope you find a cheap and easy cure cause it drives me nuts. I had a guy tell me to run a switch off a blown fuze for the wipers and just flip the switch when I need to use the wipers. I really don't wanna go that route.

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 08-20-2006).]

I have an '85 GT with tilt steering. I get a ghost wipe when I turn on the key. I recently got the car and I am repairing it and haven't driven it enough to know if it does it at other times. My switch handle is broken near the base of the stalk. I see lots of wiper switches on E-bay for about $15. Are they any good? The what looked like the same thing at Advance Auto was about $40.

My company had a Citation in about 1980 or 82 and I drove it quite a bit. It did the phantom wipe even when it was new. I blamed the problem on my knee hitting the stalk, but now that I think about it, it also did the phantom wipe sometimes when the turn signal was operated normally, but not every time. I don't know if it has the same system as the Fiero.

The Citation tried to kill me twice. Once on a rainy highway at 55 mph during a braking maneuver it locked one wheel and I went for a 360. I'm amazed it stayed in the road. Later the right rear wheel locked again in town with no excitement. On another trip, the engine stalled while I was crossing a railroad track, and the train was coming an blowing its horn. Luckily I had enough momentum to roll off the track. The train was not really close, but hearing the horn, seeing the train headlight, and seeing the Citation's oil pressure light all at the same time was something I won't ever forget. I think the Citation may have just been a lemon, the company also had Buicks and Oldsmobiles and they were good cars.

I would be interested in a solution to the phantom wipe problem.

Keep the reports coming, please - a pattern is starting to emerge.

quote Originally posted by rdean: Are you sure the 92 GMC switch is the same? The fiero switch sells at Auto Zone for $107 and the GMC is $35. Have you done this swap on a Fiero? I don't mind $35 but $107 is seems unreasonable. The Fiero factory getts eeven more. I might just try it anyway. Ray

The switches aren’t exactly the same. The one on the 88 Fiero is ACDelco D6372A, GM 26002547. The Sonoma switch is the same one used by GM from 1984 through 1992 on the Astro, S-10, S-15 and Safari models. The number of that switch is D6329C or 26020404.

The only apparent difference in the switches is that the more common one is continuously variable while the one in the Fiero has click stop settings. There could be other differences but they are plug-in and mechanically compatible. Many members here have reported using switches from the other models in the Fiero without any problem.

quote Originally posted by spark1: The switches aren’t exactly the same. The one on the 88 Fiero is ACDelco D6372A, GM 26002547. The Sonoma switch is the same one used by GM from 1984 through 1992 on the Astro, S-10, S-15 and Safari models. The number of that switch is D6329C or 26020404. The only apparent difference in the switches is that the more common one is continuously variable while the one in the Fiero has click stop settings. There could be other differences but they are plug-in and mechanically compatible. Many members here have reported using switches from the other models in the Fiero without any problem.

My car: 86 GT, and the switch is shot. I had a phantom wipe, so I swapped the boards, still had the phantom wipe. Then one day the wipers would not turn off after parking on a rainy night. The switch physically would not go all the way to the off position. I forced it, heard a click, then the wipers were stuck on the delay position. I found that if I turn the switch halfway between off and delay, the wipers will not come on. I priced a new switch and refused to pay $100.00+ for one, so it's been like that for over a year. If the Sonoma is a plug and play replacement for 35.00, I think I have a solution.

I think I will give it a try next weekend.

Be aware that the Sonoma combination switch referred to is not electrically compatible with the Fiero pulse board. It'll work as a wiper switch, but the delay wipe functions will be seriously impaired.

That switch came after a redesign of the wiper electronics...

quote Originally posted by spark1: I suspect that GM never found a way to make the design work reliably. Why they didn't use a reliable timer like the 555 rather than a R/C circuit is beyond comprehension.

What I'm finding is that the design was very capable of working reliably - only some cars are affected by this problem while others have no trouble at all. The "trick" here is to make the troubled cars work reliably at minimum expense - that's a bit more complicated.

I did some more research tonight and learned a bit more about the nature of the problem. It's tempting to call it a design problem - but since they only planned for these cars to be on the road for 10 years or 100,000 miles it's hard to look at a problem now and call it a design error; it lasted this long, didn't it?

I think if you will check it out that you will find that the wiper switch without intermittent wipe does not do this. I have not investigated the switch , but I would say that it has a resistor on the switch that is not the right resistance and when you turn on the ignition key 12 volts goes straight to the wiper switch and it causes a surge in the electrical switch and activates the board. The best way to cure this problem is to have power only to the wiper switch when you turn on the wipers. Of course this will affect the wiper park position , so there is another problem. Anyway I think I could solve the problem if I just put my brains to it.
Don

85GT, tilt, cruise. They come on with the wipers from time to time, and very rarely on a bump in the road.

I have an 86 SE V6 with Interm Wipers and Tilt Wheel. I have phantom wipers mostly when I start the car in the morning and when I use the turning signal.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 11-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: I think if you will check it out that you will find that the wiper switch without intermittent wipe does not do this. I have not investigated the switch , but I would say that it has a resistor on the switch that is not the right resistance and when you turn on the ignition key 12 volts goes straight to the wiper switch and it causes a surge in the electrical switch and activates the board. The best way to cure this problem is to have power only to the wiper switch when you turn on the wipers. Of course this will affect the wiper park position , so there is another problem. Anyway I think I could solve the problem if I just put my brains to it. Don

Correct; it's only the delay wiper equipped cars that are affected by this problem. What isn't quite as obvious is that it's also only tilt wheel equipped cars that are affected. And to narrow it down further, it's only the 85 and 86 models that are plagued with this malfunction.

You're partly correct when you say there's a resistor that's not the right resistance. The wiper "switch" is actually a potentiometer; the switch "positions" are just click stops along the pot's arc that mimic switch positions. The varying resistance value from the wiper potentiometer is "decoded" on the pulse board to provide the off / low / high / variable delay functions. There's only three wires running from the switch to the pulse board; wiper / washer signal, wiper hi speed, common. The main power to the wiper system doesn't run through the "switch"; it's just a remote control for the pulse board.

The failure we're investigating is the potentiometer losing contact along part of its arc. This is the same thing that makes old volume controls "scratchy" - but in the Fiero wiper system that momentary loss of contact causes the pulse board to decode a "wipe" command. The reason it's intermittent appears to be that the conductive carbon track that the wiper runs along is worn through. Applying contact cleaner to the wiper control provides a temporary "fix" but the only real cure is to replace the wiper / washer combination switch.

OK, here's some more facts: there are three different wiper switches used in tilt wheel delay wipe Fieros. One for the 84 cars, one for 85 and 86 cars, one for 87 and 88 cars. The 84 switch is unique and only works in the 84 cars. The 85/86 switch and the 87/88 switch differ in two ways: the 87/88 switch incorporates the patent workaround (clicks in the delay settings) and also a fix for the problem that affects the 85/86 switches.

So you could replace a bad 85/86 switch with a new 87/88 switch; they're electrically and mechanically compatible. Problem: the 87/88 switch is very expensive. I'm looking into ways to get a quantity of these switches from the manufacturer, bypassing several levels of distribution. This should get the price of the switch down substantially.

There's one more problem. The wiper switch isn't very easy to replace. To change it, you need to remove the steering column from the car and disassemble it all the way down to the tilt mechanism. This really isn't a do-it-yourself replacement; Saginaw steering columns are surprisingly complex. The chances of a first-timer replacing the wiper switch and getting everything back together correctly are very, very low.

Research continues on how to get switches very inexpensively, and I'm also investigating the possibility of making rebuilt Fiero steering columns (with a new switch and stalk) available on an exchange basis. This may be the best way to get the fix into the hands of Fiero owners.

[This message has been edited by Whuffo (edited 08-22-2006).]

Progress is coming along nicely on a source of new wiper switches; still negotiating on price but it's at about $40 now instead of the over $100 some vendors want. I'm going to try to talk them down a bit more...

Just today mine started to ghost activate (it is ghosting on the longest pause in internittant mode) in the off position. 87 with 114K and tilt steering wheel. And you do feel detents when rotating it through the intermittant positions.

I reading this thread someone sprayed a cleaner in and it stopped for about a week, and another said that after taking it apart they found brass shavings. Sounds like the contacts are wearing and shorting between the contacts, and spraying moves the shavings around.

I'm interested in a replacement, but the replacement procedure sounds scary.

How do you get the stem out to spray down into it??

Thanks

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1987 Pontiac Fiero Coupe (Notchback) 2.5L L4 Automatic

Got the same ghost wipe problem, replaced motor (burned up), replaced delay board( burned up), still have problem. Checked voltage at wiper plug and have power on the white and purple wires with wiper switch off. The purple wire should be dead in the off position. Ordered a new G.M wiper switch for $ 100.00. Oh, mine is a 1986 se v-6. Hope to get it Friday and put it in over the weekend. Will let you know the outcome.

Steve

Whuffo

There surely is a way to disconnect the intermittent section on the control board. This would be a easy fix for someone that does not care for the intermittent wiper. I think you could clip a capacitor on the board. Maybe change the control board out with a non-intermittent board
Don

[This message has been edited by ka4nkf (edited 08-31-2006).]

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: Whuffo There surely is a way to disconnect the intermittent section on the control board. This would be a easy fix for someone that does not care for the intermittent wiper. I think you could clip a capacitor on the board. Maybe change the control board out with a non-intermittent board Don

As I explained earlier, the wiper switch is just a remote control for the pulse board. The "switch" is a potentiometer; the varying resistance value as you turn the switch is decoded by the pulse board to select / control the operation of the wiper. Here's how it works:

0 Ohms = washers on
360 Ohms = wipers off
500 - 100K Ohms = wiper delay settings
Over 100K = wipers on low

There's a switch at the end of the pot that activates the high wiper speed. Anyway, the problem that we have with these switches is that the pot wears out and loses contact. When it does, the resistance goes to infinity and the wipers turn on.

Disabling the intermittent wipe function wouldn't fix this; it has to do with the control signal to the wipers. The same problem would occur even if you did clip capacitors to kill the delay wipe feature.

Your suggestion to convert to non-delay wipe would work as a solution - all you'd need to change would be the wiper switch, control stalk, and wiper motor - the wiring harness is the same. Seems to me a better solution is just to replace the bad wiper switch...

The price sounds good to me considering the switch alone is over a hundred bucks. My question is will the new column come with an ignition switch and key, or will we have to take the one from the core before sending it in

85 GT No ghost wipes but....no low sped or delay. high speed only and it wont park.
No cruise on this car. V6 4 speed

[This message has been edited by PhatMax (edited 09-01-2006).]

Same symptoms (Ghost wipe on right turn). 86SE 2M6, Tilt, Delay and Cruise.

[This message has been edited by Mike Marden (edited 09-01-2006).]

86SE 2m6, tilt, intermittant cruise (factory cruise added on by me)

I get a ghost swipe sometimes when using turn signal. I can usually get it go swipe once just by jiggling the stalk. I've seen it swipe once when I set the turn signal, then swipe again when the stalk clicks back after I make the turn.

Otherwise it works perfectly.

Suggesting that it is only a Fiero problem is probably not correct. My 86 GT does it if I slap my signal on, left or right and my cousin's 87 GTA does the same. In most cases its just an annoyance. This happens about the same time that your rear view mirror falls off and your roof liner starts to sag and your sun shade starts to fall down on its own. Just part of owning an older car.

quote Originally posted by Whuffo: Update: I'm talking with some rebuilders and looking for someone to rebuild Fiero steering columns. It's starting to look like a rebuilt tilt steering column with a new wiper switch and turn signal stalk and other problems repaired would cost about $100 plus core. Any feedback? Is this too much or not enough?

Sounds like a deal to me depending on how you plan to work the ingnition switch and key. Will the new column come with a switch and key?