Hi everyone, I just made the cradle for the custom car (I *do* still work on the Fieros every now & then) & thought some of you might like to see it. Made of 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1/8" steel tube, with 1/8" plate for the suspension/engine mounts & 4"x 4"x 3/16" for the rear body mounts (some 4x4 scrap that I have - the same poles I made my building out of). Corners of the rectangular tube are gusseted with 1"x 2" tube cut at 45 degree angles. (I call them a "boxed gusset".) Partly made still on the jig:
Unpainted:
Painted:
Did anyone ever get the weight of the original '88 cradle? I'll post the weight of mine soon. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
People who are lucky should hold out a helping hand for those less fortunate. - Paul Newman
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06:11 AM
PFF
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kawana Member
Posts: 2329 From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Registered: May 2007
Work fine for me. What are you getting? If it's a square area saying "image", you may have to re-load the page. Or try right-clicking on the square & choose "image properties" to get the link.
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03:14 PM
NW-Fiero Member
Posts: 447 From: Pierce County - WA Registered: Aug 2008
It will be hard to make a new cradle that is lighter than the stock one using steel. To give you an idea of how much steel weighs, you can go to this site and look up the weight per in of standard stock:
This one is from a 2000 Impala SS, but several GM cars had them. I don't remember how much lighter it is, but it is NOT worth the time and effort just to save 10-15 pounds. But it is definitely cool looking.
I will not use this cradle for the swap, but it does seem doable if you have the skill.
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06:06 PM
Back On Holiday Member
Posts: 6238 From: Downingtown, PA Registered: Jul 2001
Pics work for me. It doesn't look much lighter than a stock cradle though?
It did come out a little heavier than I expected. This one was not built for ultimate weight loss, but to save a few pounds & give me a nice clean strong cradle to do my swap on. It's 40 lbs. The solo cradle will be about half of what the stock cradle weighs. Let me see if I can make the pics work for the I.E. losers - er I mean users. Let me know if the www helped.
Nice work! (I couldn't get to the pics, either.) It occurs to me that if you can move the front rail a few inches forward, this will make an excellent option for the Northstar swappers. (The welding, alone, is stopping at least a few people from trying to swap Northstars.)
If you're interested in producing these, don't just take my word for it. Ask around for the particulars.
What would be your price for a custom cradle?
quote
Originally posted by opm2000:
Nice looking work, fill us in a bit.
David Breeze
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-01-2008).]
Nice work! (I couldn't get to the pics, either.) It occurs to me that if you can move the front rail a few inches forward, this will make an excellent option for the Northstar swappers. (The welding, alone, is stopping at least a few people from trying to swap Northstars.)
If you're interested in producing these, don't just take my word for it. Ask around for the particulars.
What would be your price for a custom cradle?
Yeah there are several changes that could be made. The front crossmember was located there so that I could put the trans mount in the original spot, & weld to that rail. Not a problem to re-locate it. Also, the rear body mounts could be made out of smaller, lighter material, & the way I attached the rails to it can be simplified. I actually have no idea if the engine & trans will clear everything, but I'm pretty sure they will. I can make them for around $750.
fieroguru - The "image" folder has the forbidden error page: I have no idea why you would get that if you had the full URL to the image(s) pasted in.
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01:16 AM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Did you move the inner suspension mounts up to improve/correct the geometry?
For my car the cradle mounts are about an inch lower, which moves everything up an inch (into the body of the car). In addition to that, there will be more ground clearence as the rails do not hang below the suspension mounts as they do on the stock cradle. Since I'll be making motor & trans mounts for a 4T60e & (at this time) a 3800, I can move them to any point I want/need. I made the jig to make a cradle with stock mounts, & with optional provisions for a 2" drop on the body mounts (raising the cradle up). But I can space those (body) mounts any way that's needed when welding up the cradle, keeping the suspension & engine/trans mounts in the same place in relation to each other. That *may* cause problems with clearences in the engine compartment when using stock rubber engine/trans mounts, but of course the engine/trans mounts on the cradle can also be moved, or left out & added later if need be. I'll know more when I mount everything up & bolt it into the car, of course. May be a while, as I have a lot of work to do at this time. Edit: Another thing I did was weld up the ends of the tubing so that there are no open ends to collect dirt/moisture. Only had to do that at the front body mounts, as everything else was already closed.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 10-02-2008).]
Paul, It occurs to me that if you can move the front rail a few inches forward, this will make an excellent option for the Northstar swappers.
I might add; my front crossmember is already 3+ inches further forward than the stock cradle. Look at the front trans mount in relation the crossmember on both cradles. Is that enough for a Northstar?
Forgot to thank you for that - THANKS! I'll weigh the bolts & control arms in your pic when I get time, & we'll know exactly how much this cradle will save me (probably around 17 to 18 lbs.). As I said, the solo cradle I plan to make will save much more. I'll most likely be making it out of 1 1/2" round tube (& it won't need to be near as strong).
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06:23 AM
kawana Member
Posts: 2329 From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Registered: May 2007
i think there would be a market for people to try and duplicate the 88 cradles (whatever it is about them that makes them better than the others), and try to sell them. 88' cradles are getting harder and harder to find...
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06:27 AM
PFF
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Raydar Member
Posts: 40925 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by Tha Driver: I might add; my front crossmember is already 3+ inches further forward than the stock cradle. Look at the front trans mount in relation the crossmember on both cradles. Is that enough for a Northstar?
I'm not sure that 3 inches is enough. I've never done a Northstar, because the welding and fabrication is beyond my abilities. (It appears that the engine management has been "handled".) Perhaps Will or one of the other Northstar fans will chime in.
quote
Originally posted by kawana: i think there would be a market for people to try and duplicate the 88 cradles (whatever it is about them that makes them better than the others), and try to sell them. 88' cradles are getting harder and harder to find...
The main thing that makes the '88 cradle more desireable is the redesigned '88 suspension. (It's a semi-popular swap into the earlier cars.) There are also the folks who consider the '88 cradle to be not as sturdy as the earlier years.
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08:14 AM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
For my car the cradle mounts are about an inch lower, which moves everything up an inch (into the body of the car). In addition to that, there will be more ground clearence as the rails do not hang below the suspension mounts as they do on the stock cradle.
Excellent!
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02:41 PM
Zac88GT Member
Posts: 1024 From: Victoria BC Registered: Nov 2004
Originally posted by Tha Driver: I might add; my front crossmember is already 3+ inches further forward than the stock cradle. Look at the front trans mount in relation the crossmember on both cradles. Is that enough for a Northstar?
Nope, I'm pretty sure i needed to move mine forward by 6" or so but it's been a while.
Nope, I'm pretty sure i needed to move mine forward by 6" or so but it's been a while.
Did you use the stock trans mounts? I would love to have some type of diagrams & measurements for the mounts (& clearences) for different conversions. For that matter, different engines & trans to be able to mock them up.
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07:58 PM
Sep 6th, 2009
BMTFIERO Member
Posts: 1187 From: Beaumont, TX Registered: Dec 2007
Depends. I haven't installed it yet, so if that's "fallen by the way side" then I guess it has. I'm waiting now for delivery of a 3800 SC to put on it. I also need to find the inner sleeves for the '88 rear suspension forward links: I'm using used urethane bushings for the motor mounts. I do have the mounts mostly done. I haven't worked a lot on it as it's only one of my three main projects, & I'm trying to spend most of my time & money on the VW (it has '88 Fiero running gear/suspension & a SBC mid-engine ). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
If you haven't seen the future, you're not going fast enough! - Christian Von Coenigsegg
I want to do the 88 cradle swap. I was thinking that I may have to get a local fab shop to make a custom one with adjustable suspension mounts so I can fine tune the geometry.
Anybody have any more info on repositioning the suspension mounting points and why. Is it only needed for use with the earlier front suspensions?
I would much rather have another Fiero owner build it, so the knowledge can be shared with all.
You change the location of the suspension mounts if you're lowering the car, to keep the suspension geometry the same. I have the SC engine now; without an ECU or wiring harness. Gonna start a thread to determine my options. Still plan to concentrate my efforts on the VW & pickup, but want to at least mount the engine/trans/cradle in the car as soon as I can afford axles. VW: http://angelonearth.net/VW.html Pickup: http://angelonearth.net/pickup.html < will update soon with new pics using GodzillaDolly. Frank & Godzilla: http://angelonearth.net/Frank.html ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Not sure where we're going but, no sense in being late!
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11:38 PM
Jul 1st, 2010
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
For my car the cradle mounts are about an inch lower, which moves everything up an inch (into the body of the car). In addition to that, there will be more ground clearence as the rails do not hang below the suspension mounts as they do on the stock cradle.
That has got me thinking I could mod a stock cradle by shortening the height of the stock cradle mounts
That has got me thinking I could mod a stock cradle by shortening the height of the stock cradle mounts
You can do that, but remember you'll also be moving the engine & transaxle up into the car. May not be a bad thing, but I'm sure you'll run into length issues with lines & such, & maybe clearance of the decklid. With my custom cradle, the mounts are in the same position in relation to the body (but I'm making custom mounts for the 4T60e & 3800). I'll let everyone know how it all works out when I install it. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
If you can't take the heat, get out of the nuclear reactor.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 07-01-2010).]
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04:26 AM
PFF
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Sep 2nd, 2011
LZeppelin513 Member
Posts: 761 From: Lake Stevens, Washington Registered: Aug 2003
Driver- Did you end up installing this cradle? Are you still making these?
Still have not installed it. I got the 3800 SC, but other projects & time/money have not permitted me to work on the custom car. The SC engine appears to be very tired so I'm planning to tear both down to the short block & use the best engine of the two for the SC. I HAVE recently acquired a 4.9 & most everything to install it (including an Ed Parks harness) but I think I'll put that in the T-Top or maybe even sell it to fund other projects, since the T-Top engine is in good condition anyway. But if I used the 4.9 & SC engine in the T-Top & custom car, I'd have a stock 2.8 to go back in the solo project (but I'd rather have a 3.4). Who knows... I can make a cradle at any time; I still have the jig of course. Still plan to make a round tube one for the solo project if I ever get back on it. Right now the VW & pickup are my main concerns. VW for fun, the pickup 'cause I need it: http://angelonearth.net/VW.html http://angelonearth.net/pickup.html ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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). 
Gonna start a thread to determine my options. 
