so i figured now was a good time to start posting my build. ive got a 84' notchie that im swappin a 3800 sc into. the main reason for me doing this is becuase the iron duke crapped out on me. so i needed a new engine. id never done anything like this before. The most ive done was paint the interior and do regular maintenance on it. i was gonna pay someone to do the swap for me but im super poor. and there doesnt seem to be anyone in the st. louis area that does swaps like this. so.... well before i bore anyone ill show some pics of the car...





ok hope that satisfies

now here's some pics of the engine...







ok then.

i want to say this before people start throwin ideas at me. I AM POOR!!. im only 20 and i am currently unemployed (through no fault of my own) and no one seems to be hiring. so any expensive ideas will have to wait for later. also, im not looking to be the fastest car in the world, i just need this car to do a couple things... be a daily driver when finished, make long trips (like from st. louis to springfield, MO. which is about 350 miles), and be reliable. But i still want it to be fast. just not break-neck fast. really the only thing that i plan on doing to this engine, performance wise, is getting the smaller pully for the supercharger.

my main concerns right now are these (in this order)

1. prepping engine for install (includes wiring)
2. removal of 2.5 from the fiero
3. prepping fiero for install
4. installing
5. get running
6. beat friends in race

now those are obviously just the main ideas and then there's all the smaller ones along the way. one of my main problems is that im terrible with wiring. it confuses the **** outa me and i dont know what anything means so if you explain anything wire related to me, pretend that im your pet retarded monkey.... thats blind. so what i was gonna do is just buy a wiring harness thats already done and use that. i do have the wiring harness for the 3800 so people will suggest to make my own, but again, im a retarded blind monkey when it comes to wiring. but maybe you guys can cure me of this. ill be posting more pictures in a bit cause ive already started on the engine a while ago and just now am posting it. so progress will seem very quick at first. and then it will slow to real life time. and thats when ill need you guys. cuase ill have plenty of questions.

(BTW, ignore all the photo related questions and comments below because i fixed the problem

[This message has been edited by 07Hoffmannd (edited 02-08-2010).]

ok so can anyone tell me why my pictures are so small? im using photobucket.

For starters, you would be doing everyone here a favor if you used PIP to post pics. This way the pics will never leave this site and suffer from broken links. Secondly, you have to re-size the images. Photobucket has options for this under the edit tab. I would then suggest uploading them with PIP if you would.

Honestly, the wiring isn't really that hard.
You just disconnect/cut/however you wanna do it all the wires from the engine sensors at the firewall plug or wherever will give you the most wire to work with and separate all the sensor wires. One by one plug in the sensors etc and route the wires the way you want them around the engine to where you plan on having the PCM. It helps to label all the wires including the pin letter of the sensor it comes from as you do this to help you later on, and to know the names of all the sensors etc. Then just solder the joints to the wires into the corresponding PCM number, I used files from GMtuners.com to help me do mine.
http://www.gmtuners.com/files/index.htm

There's also lot's of info in this thread:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079560.html

Hope this helps

If you use the instructions linked above keep in mind they are for 85-88 Fieros and the wiring that interfaces the Fiero will be quite a bit different on an 84.

I am in the middle of helping a friend out with an 84 3800SC swap right now. I'm always glad to try to help out, PM me anytime !

------------------
Mike
'86 Fiero 3800 supercharged '86 Fiero SE original
'85 Fiero SE '85 Fiero GT
'84 Fiero SE '84 Fiero Base coupe

i cant use PIP. its not supported for Mac's only windows.

The 84's are just as easy to do swaps on and just as good a car as any other Fiero so enjoy, take your time and ask lots of questions.
I have done quite a few 3800 swaps into 84's so feel free to contact me and ask any questions you have and I will do my best to answer or send a photo or two to describe it better.
If you look through the photos in the link below my sig you will find lots of photos including 84 Fiero 3800 swaps. Dan

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http://www.photosled.com/showgallery.php/cat/631

quote Originally posted by D_sensitized: Honestly, the wiring isn't really that hard. You just disconnect/cut/however you wanna do it all the wires from the engine sensors at the firewall plug or wherever will give you the most wire to work with and separate all the sensor wires. One by one plug in the sensors etc and route the wires the way you want them around the engine to where you plan on having the PCM. It helps to label all the wires including the pin letter of the sensor it comes from as you do this to help you later on, and to know the names of all the sensors etc. Then just solder the joints to the wires into the corresponding PCM number, I used files from GMtuners.com to help me do mine. http://www.gmtuners.com/files/index.htm There's also lot's of info in this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079560.html Hope this helps

thanks man thats helpful, but you've already lost me

Mounting the alt down low is easy, I would suggest getting a newer style 3800 alt bracket to make things easier. That way you can make a dog bone bracket right off the alt bracket.
if you do mount the engine low enough you can keep the alt up top with the newer smaller alternators but they do look better down low. The newer stlye alt bracket also makes it easier for belt rotation on cars with A/C and low mounted alt and can be purchased new through ZZP quite cheaply. Dan

i am looking to mount the alternator low, so i can use the alt spot for a dogbone mount. but that means i have to aquire a low mount and a dogbone mount. i heard something about astro vans with a 3.4 havin a good mount for the the dogbone. anyone heard of this? also where can i ge a cheap low mount for the alt. i have looked up some prices and they are around $100. for a piece of metal!? to pricy for me. needs to be cheaper

quote Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: i am looking to mount the alternator low, so i can use the alt spot for a dogbone mount. but that means i have to aquire a low mount and a dogbone mount. i heard something about astro vans with a 3.4 havin a good mount for the the dogbone. anyone heard of this? also where can i ge a cheap low mount for the alt. i have looked up some prices and they are around $100. for a piece of metal!? to pricy for me. needs to be cheaper

For less than $10 you can mount the alt. where the A/C compressor is. Just get some 1/4'' thick strips of metal cut them for mounting holes, then have someone weld them up(if you don't have a welder). You can buy all the tools to do it yourself for around $200 if you get Harbor Freight stuff on sale.

------------------
'84 3800SC, XP cam, 3.2 pully, HPTuners, N* TB, 4sp, SPEC 3+ clutch, Aluminium flywheel, pacesetter headers, F355 body kit, weight reduction

well i dont weld but the guy i work with does. are the welds pretty simple? just like straight line put two pieces togther stuff. and where would i get just strips of metal?

quote Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: well i dont weld but the guy i work with does. are the welds pretty simple? just like straight line put two pieces togther stuff. and where would i get just strips of metal?

If you are going to put the Alt where the AC goes then that will be simple as cutting and welding a few pieces of metal along with drilling some holes. There are a few Threads around that shows others work where they put the Alt where the AC goes. If you do this then using the stock Grand Prix alum dog bone bracket is as simple as bolting it on.

quote Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: well i dont weld but the guy i work with does. are the welds pretty simple? just like straight line put two pieces togther stuff. and where would i get just strips of metal?

You can get the metal from home depot or Lowes. The brackets I made had 4 angled welds. If you need to transport the pieces for welding, you can use some JB weld on them to fix them in the position you need until they can be clamped and welded by your friend. (I had to do this with a piece of aluminum, worked pretty good).

Just remember to angle grind the edges of the steel where they will contact themselves so the weld can get good penetration before you JB weld 'em.

I would say the welds are fairly simple, since I did 'em myself

ok cool. maybe i can get the guy i work with to do it. my friend also just learned to weld so maybe i can call up a favor.

i am keeping the AC cause im using this for a daily driver. and as i said before id like to be able to take long trips comfortably. but thanks for the info.

it looks like ill be tryin to make my own bracket thing cause the premade prices are way to high. but i still have to find a dogbone mount to go where the alt. went. that will also be a problem. guess ill be makin a few junkyard trips

[This message has been edited by 07Hoffmannd (edited 02-15-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: ok cool. maybe i can get the guy i work with to do it. my friend also just learned to weld so maybe i can call up a favor. i am keeping the AC cause im using this for a daily driver. and as i said before id like to be able to take long trips comfortably. but thanks for the info. it looks like ill be tryin to make my own bracket thing cause the premade prices are way to high. but i still have to find a dogbone mount to go where the alt. went. that will also be a problem. guess ill be makin a few junkyard trips

From looking at your pictures above you already have the alum dogbone bracket that comes stock on the Grand Prix. This is used in conjunction with making a low mount for the Alt.

quote Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: but i still have to find a dogbone mount to go where the alt. went. that will also be a problem. guess ill be makin a few junkyard trips

Just use the one on the tranny side of the engine...

edit, I was too slow

[This message has been edited by Dracor (edited 02-15-2010).]

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: From looking at your pictures above you already have the alum dogbone bracket that comes stock on the Grand Prix. This is used in conjunction with making a low mount for the Alt.

are you saying you use part of the aluminum dogbone as a mount for the alternator? or are you just sayin use the 3800 dogbone mount as the dogbone mount for the fiero? cause if so that would cool. i didn't know you could do that.

quote Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: are you saying you use part of the aluminum dogbone as a mount for the alternator? or are you just sayin use the 3800 dogbone mount as the dogbone mount for the fiero? cause if so that would cool. i didn't know you could do that.

Yes to both. You use the bracket for both a dogbone mount and use it in the low mount setup also. Do a search and U will see some pictures of how it is done.

thanks. i will search it. if anybody can direct to a thread where you know they discuss thats be helpful too.

btw: MstangsBware, every time i read your name it makes me laugh

some pics of the the supercharger

[This message has been edited by 07Hoffmannd (edited 02-20-2010).]

ok, i cannot get this off. ive got the three bolts out and its just stuck on this one tube. how do i get it out?



here's the part thats stuck

quote Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: ok, i cannot get this off. ive got the three bolts out and its just stuck on this one tube. how do i get it out? here's the part thats stuck

It is just being held in by orings now and thats it. Pull hard and it will come loose.

yes mine was hard to get off, but alot of wiggling and twisting and a rock'n and it came out.

damn. i was hoping i was missing something. guess ill have to get the lube for this one

If you go to take the pulley off the bracket you just removed it is a left hand thread. All the other parts on the front of the engine just unbolt for removal. Look closely and you will see the bolts for the SC tensioner assy you need to remove the idler pulley to access one bolt and the tensioner pulley assy to remove the bracket. Dan

pulley bracket comes off as left hand thread? could you show me in this pic which part your talking about?

Just the pulley on the alt bracket piece with the heater hoses going through it, that bolt is a left hand thread. Dan

ok two questions since im gonna do the mount where the alt used to be. do i just cut the alternator bracket like this?



or do i just not need this piece at all?

and how/where would i reroute the hoses that run through it

alright, ive been inactive for a while cause im finally back at work, thank god. which means more money! and less time but i have had time to get most of the accesories off, and i made a mount for the the low mount alternator.



for the way that the alternator was mounted i needed to make a spacer.



what i did was just take an old mount with a round part and cut it off.





and then filed it down till it fit



here's how the mount fits on the alternator



and here's how it fits on the engine





actually the pictures of that mount aren't acurate. those are before i fixed it and made it pretty. but for the most part thats what it looks like

[This message has been edited by 07Hoffmannd (edited 03-24-2010).]

i have one question that no one seems to have asked, what transmission are you planing on using?

Sweet! I plan on doing with same thing with my 88 gt.

Did you get your 3800 engine and trans here in St Louis?

I would bet that alternator will hit an auto trans if you are using one, I also bet it is going to be hard to support the rear, which you must do if you plan on having that alternator stick around on the engine for any length of time.

quote i have one question that no one seems to have asked, what transmission are you planing on using?

well as of right now i dont have one. but i want to just use auto 3 speed that comes with it usually

quote Did you get your 3800 engine and trans here in St Louis?

you're from st. louis? cool! where in st. louis. im in south city. and yes i got the engine in st. louis. i got lucky though. i was on ebay looking at some engines and just came across this one that heppened to be in st. louis. if you need one i think someone is selling engine + trans on craigslist. ill keep my eye out for em though if you still need one.

quote I would bet that alternator will hit an auto trans if you are using one

what? how would that hit the trans?

quote I also bet it is going to be hard to support the rear, which you must do if you plan on having that alternator stick around on the engine for any length of time.

rear of what? the alternator. why would it need to be supported?