The fuel pump was toast. We tested it via the data port in the center console. When we got the pump out we attached leads directly to the pump to double check and sure enough its dead. Hopefully we will find time to have the pump back in by friday.
The rust underneath the car seems average and only in few spots seem to need major attention such as the motor mounts and tie rods.
As far as the clutch and slave cylinder are concerned i would like input on that. When we got the parts store slave cylinder it was around 2 or so inches shorter and the pushrod was about half the length of the one on the car and wouldnt even reach the clutch lever. We installed the new slave with the old pushrod and attempted to bleed the system but it is still very very soft and we only see about one inch of travel.
The brakes are going to need ALOT of TLC and i hope that the calipers are salvageable.
If the brakes are too far gone, there's a few upgrade options that are out there that might be cheaper and more available than getting Fiero replacement ones. A few I have seen on here are from a Chrysler LeBaron or just a Pontiac Grand Am. I would think that these would be much easier to find than replacement Fiero ones, plus I think they perform better as well (from what I have heard), not sure on how to install or if anything needs to be changed. Use the search button in the top right to find out more! Keep us updated on the progress!
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11:57 PM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
If the brakes are too far gone, there's a few upgrade options that are out there that might be cheaper and more available than getting Fiero replacement ones. A few I have seen on here are from a Chrysler LeBaron or just a Pontiac Grand Am. I would think that these would be much easier to find than replacement Fiero ones, plus I think they perform better as well (from what I have heard), not sure on how to install or if anything needs to be changed. Use the search button in the top right to find out more! Keep us updated on the progress!
I'll keep that in mind, because if the caliper is salvageable, i will probably need new rotors at the least.
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11:59 PM
Sep 1st, 2010
the300zxmaster Member
Posts: 66 From: Statesboro, ga Registered: Aug 2010
If the brakes are too far gone, there's a few upgrade options that are out there that might be cheaper and more available than getting Fiero replacement ones. A few I have seen on here are from a Chrysler LeBaron or just a Pontiac Grand Am. I would think that these would be much easier to find than replacement Fiero ones, plus I think they perform better as well (from what I have heard), not sure on how to install or if anything needs to be changed. Use the search button in the top right to find out more! Keep us updated on the progress!
There are quite a few "u-pull" junk yards around here and im interested in seeing what other vehicles calipers would be compatible with very little or no modification.
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12:00 AM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
I shall try and get the Fuel pump in by friday and see if she will start, if she does, then i have the clutch problem to worry about, and i shall see how the brakes work, and if the transmission is good. Only time will tell. Wish me luck!
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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12:27 AM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
The rubber piece that goes around the actual pump was so soggy it tore when pulling the pump away from the assembly. What is that piece called, and is there anything i can use to serve its same purpose?
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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12:31 AM
IMSA GT Member
Posts: 10484 From: California Registered: Aug 2007
Ahh....there was no introduction from you, just a nosedive into the thread and you both are from the same town with the same registration date
I see lol, I introduced myself in his previous thread under his introduction. I will be shortly making my own introducion with my car and telling about my helping hand in the progression of "fifi"
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01:21 AM
SKIDMARK Member
Posts: 1350 From: Chardon, Ohio, USA Registered: Sep 2001
Is the piston diameter of the new slave bigger than the old one? If so they sold you the wrong slave cylinder. The Getrag 5 speed uses a shorter fatter slave. You WILL have problems with the Getrag slave on a 4 speed because with the fatter piston you get less travel. btw the Izusu 5 speed uses the same piston as the 4 speed.
Most on here say you need 1 1/8 inches of travel for the clutch to work properly. I happen to have only just a 1/16 under 1 inch and it DOES work good for me (85 2.8 was an auto but replaced the pedals and lines from a 86 4 speed and I have the Izusu 5 speed tranny), however many on here still have problems at 1"
Make SURE you don't run the pump with no gas in the tank. It is extremely hard on the pumps and the rate of failure after doing so is very high.
Also TEST the gas gauge sender now and FIX it. It is almost guarenteed to be broken. The windings on them get coated with stuff from the gas and then the gauge stops working.
It's not my article however I would think the only position you are REALLY interested in being accurate is the empty position. Who cares if the gauge stays at full for a bit before it starts to move. What I care about is knowing exactly when I am going to run out of gas.
Even if your sender seems to give you a smooth resistance change to start I would clean the windings off with acetone. Last thing you want to do is pull the tank a second time for something not so big like the fuel gauge.
After you have the gauge giving you a nice smooth change in resistance all the way up and down then you can bend the float to get the gauge to sit exactly where you want it to for the real empty. I prefer the empty side of the empty mark.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 09-01-2010).]
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03:40 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
"A lot of work"? Cause the rotors are rusted? All rotors will do that sitting. If the brakes seem to stop the car ok, don't take them apart right away till you test drive it first. The brakes will make some not so good sounding noises at first and then shortly all the rust will be gone. Take it easy with them and drive it and evaluate them. One problem you might have is a pulsing pedal. That comes from the fact that the rotors don't rust as fast where the brake pads were against them. If you have the pulsating pedal you will need to deal with the rotors. Front rotors that have that problem will make the steering wheel shimmy when you apply the brakes. Rear rotors won't/
Problems - When removing the calipers sometimes the caliper bolts have an internal TORX head in them and some replacements have an internal HEX head in them. You have to look first before you put the wrench to them. Put the torx bit into the hex bolt and you will round out the internal head and then your f-ed. If on the front wheels turn the wheels all the way to one side so you have the best angle to work on breaking free those bolts. Use an ice pick to clean out the internal head of either type before you try to wrench them off. Use a LARGE breaker bar with a reducer if you need to when you break the bolts the first time. The reason you want to do that is with a large breaker bar you can hold the wrench better, making sure the socket doesn't get cocked in the bolt head, makng sure the socket is FIRMLY pushed into the head when you break them free.
The caliper pin bolts ride in metal sleeves that rust nasty. IF you take the calipers off plan on replacing the sleeves. There are rubber seals in the bolt bore of the calipers. Plan on replacing them also. If you replace the calipers then the seals are replaced with them. When reassembling the calipers use antiseeze on the bolt pin sleeves where they touch the seals and where they touch the bolts.
The rear rotors just fall off once the calipers are off. The front rotors have the bearing hub built into them so you have to mess with the bearings if you end up replacing them.
Mamy of the "upgrades" to the rear calipers involve using front brake calipers. What that means is you loose your parking brake. Not much of a big deal for the women but those of us with a man pedal need a functioning parking brake. If your car needs to pass a state inspection that includes the parking brake you can't just eliminate it.
If you remove the calipers plan on replacing the bolts if they are at all rounded internally. Cheap insurance for next time you work on the car.
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04:11 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Make SURE you don't run the pump with no gas in the tank. It is extremely hard on the pumps and the rate of failure after doing so is very high.
Also TEST the gas gauge sender now and FIX it. It is almost guarenteed to be broken. The windings on them get coated with stuff from the gas and then the gauge stops working.
It's not my article however I would think the only position you are REALLY interested in being accurate is the empty position. Who cares if the gauge stays at full for a bit before it starts to move. What I care about is knowing exactly when I am going to run out of gas.
Even if your sender seems to give you a smooth resistance change to start I would clean the windings off with acetone. Last thing you want to do is pull the tank a second time for something not so big like the fuel gauge.
After you have the gauge giving you a nice smooth change in resistance all the way up and down then you can bend the float to get the gauge to sit exactly where you want it to for the real empty. I prefer the empty side of the empty mark.
I am glad you mentioned that, because i dont think mine works. Something for me to do while im waiting on the fuel pump to come in.
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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07:45 AM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
Is the piston diameter of the new slave bigger than the old one? If so they sold you the wrong slave cylinder. The Getrag 5 speed uses a shorter fatter slave. You WILL have problems with the Getrag slave on a 4 speed because with the fatter piston you get less travel. btw the Izusu 5 speed uses the same piston as the 4 speed.
Most on here say you need 1 1/8 inches of travel for the clutch to work properly. I happen to have only just a 1/16 under 1 inch and it DOES work good for me (85 2.8 was an auto but replaced the pedals and lines from a 86 4 speed and I have the Izusu 5 speed tranny), however many on here still have problems at 1"
Im pretty sure the new one is the same diameter, just shorter and the rod that came with it was half the length of the one that was with the old slave.
Is the piston diameter of the new slave bigger than the old one? If so they sold you the wrong slave cylinder. The Getrag 5 speed uses a shorter fatter slave. You WILL have problems with the Getrag slave on a 4 speed because with the fatter piston you get less travel. btw the Izusu 5 speed uses the same piston as the 4 speed.
Most on here say you need 1 1/8 inches of travel for the clutch to work properly. I happen to have only just a 1/16 under 1 inch and it DOES work good for me (85 2.8 was an auto but replaced the pedals and lines from a 86 4 speed and I have the Izusu 5 speed tranny), however many on here still have problems at 1"
The bore is the same and i would say we are getting at least 1 inch of travel. The pedal just feels unusually airy.
As far as the brakes are concerned rotors are simple, they can be replaced, i was referring to the calipers. The pistons are heavily rusted and the body of the caliper is severely oxidized and well need sanding and painting.
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12:22 PM
PFF
System Bot
the300zxmaster Member
Posts: 66 From: Statesboro, ga Registered: Aug 2010
Is it possible that the reason for the pedal not stiffening up after continuous blleding that air is getting around the piston in the slave cylinder? it is a brand new slave, but what would be a simple quick and easy way to find this out, or prevent it from happening?
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01:12 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
The bore is the same and i would say we are getting at least 1 inch of travel. The pedal just feels unusually airy.
As far as the brakes are concerned rotors are simple, they can be replaced, i was referring to the calipers. The pistons are heavily rusted and the body of the caliper is severely oxidized and well need sanding and painting.
Usually the reason the pedal feels airy is there is air in the system. That also prevents the slave from moving the proper distance. Try this. Pump the pedal 5 or 10 times and see if the pedal feels better and the slave moves more. If so then there is air in the system. When you pump it and then hold the pedal does the clutch then disengage?
The calipers clean up very nice using a wire wheel on a bench grinder. MAKE SURE you use safety glasses. The wires from the bench grinder wheel break off and get flung at your eyes.
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02:32 PM
the300zxmaster Member
Posts: 66 From: Statesboro, ga Registered: Aug 2010
Usually the reason the pedal feels airy is there is air in the system. That also prevents the slave from moving the proper distance. Try this. Pump the pedal 5 or 10 times and see if the pedal feels better and the slave moves more. If so then there is air in the system. When you pump it and then hold the pedal does the clutch then disengage?
The calipers clean up very nice using a wire wheel on a bench grinder. MAKE SURE you use safety glasses. The wires from the bench grinder wheel break off and get flung at your eyes.
It doesnt seem to build more as you pump the pedal more and more but it does hold in the same position while the pedal is held.
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03:17 PM
the300zxmaster Member
Posts: 66 From: Statesboro, ga Registered: Aug 2010
The fuel pump came in today, and before putting it in, I want to ask is there anything I should do before/ immediately after putting the pump in. I went with the OEM Delphi pump any opinions on that?
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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06:36 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
What is the best way to go about priming the fuel system with a new pump on these cars?
Just make sure there is fuel in the tank before the pump gets powered on. As long as the pump is in fuel it's good. Cycle the key to on - wait and let the pump run for it's two second "prime" and then to off for 60 seconds (too short in between and the ECM won't prime the engine again). While doing this inspect for any leaks. Do this 5 times and if you have found no leaks then go and start the car and your good to go.
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06:42 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
It doesnt seem to build more as you pump the pedal more and more but it does hold in the same position while the pedal is held.
So how much travel do you get from the slave. Note - if the clutch isn't releasing fully you will not be able to shift into gear with the engine running but it will shift ok with the engine off. Start the car in neutral of course, just in case.
If you get at least 1" in slave travel, and the clutch still isn't disengaging even with pumping, try this. With the car on stands in the rear, start the car in gear, rev the engine a little bit, push the clutch in and hold it to the floor and step on the brake. If the clutch disk has gotten stuck to the flywheel this should brake it free.
Don't bother trying that if you don't have at least 1" of slave trouble.
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06:46 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Matt, they gave you the wrong slave. It should be for an 85 V6. Have them cross reference GM part number 10035004. Right now NAPA has them for around $35. One of our members just bought one for his 4-speed, today.
And keep your old pushrod. Some slaves don't come with a new pushrod. NAPA also carries the ethanol submersible fuel line.
[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 09-02-2010).]
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09:51 PM
PFF
System Bot
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
Matt, they gave you the wrong slave. It should be for an 85 V6. Have them cross reference GM part number 10035004. Right now NAPA has them for around $35. One of our members just bought one for his 4-speed, today.
And keep your old pushrod. Some slaves don't come with a new pushrod. NAPA also carries the ethanol submersible fuel line.
I figured, i planned on returning it they told me the wrong fuel filter too. i got that solved, but which slave diameter should i use? i think the one I got is 11/16. Should I have gotten the 13/16?
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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10:15 PM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
With just a little cleaning. They need to be painted before being reinstalled
Wear these
I definately planned on doing that, Did you use the wire wheel on a bench grinder? I have 2 stones on my bench grinder, but have a wire wheel for my drill, shouldn't that work the same?
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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10:18 PM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
Well i just looked on the Oreilly's website, and it says 13/16 for 4 speed manual transmission, the people there are just idiots after i clearly said 4-speed. Here is the link just so you can make sure. I called earlier, and its $23.99
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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10:25 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
I definately planned on doing that, Did you use the wire wheel on a bench grinder? I have 2 stones on my bench grinder, but have a wire wheel for my drill, shouldn't that work the same?
Sure. You could use a dremmel too. Compare the size of the motors on all three and you can quickly see which is going to get the job done much faster. A braided wire wheel stands up much better than a non braided wheel however the non braided is much better for getting into the slots of the caliper. Reverse the direction of rotation of the wheel every time you mount it so the wires don't get matted down in one direction. A wire wheel on the grinder is really nice to clean up nasty parts with. When cleaning rusted parts note that the wire wheel won't clean the 'pits' but will quickly take off the scale and almost all of the surface rust. A wire wheel is also somewhat nice for even smoothing out rough edges from grinding and such.
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10:31 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
I painted mine with gaudy silver paint. After being mounted and getting just a little dirty they look just like bare aluminum. The wire wheeling them will kick off a bunch of dust so if you have nice things and a clean garage and your grinder is on wheels then push it out to the driveway to do the work.
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10:35 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Be aware that the 84 4-speed slave is different from the 85 and 86 4-speed slave. If you take the old slave with you and compare, you can be assured you get the right one. The 84 and 85-86 4-speed slaves mount differently, too. Many of the parts stores will also tell you that the 86's only came with 5 speeds, too.
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11:01 PM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
Well when I pull the calipers off, and remove the brake hose from them, brake fluid drips out. How would I stop that from dripping while the caliper is off the car?
------------------ Matt
2002 5.4 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 1986 2.8 Pontiac Fiero 4-Speed
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11:06 PM
86FIFI Member
Posts: 749 From: Statesboro, GA Registered: Aug 2010
