Another guy whos gonna try. I have most of the major components, still have a lot of the small stuff to get yet.









The auto transmission in the pic was all built up and ready to go, then I changed my plans to a 6 speed. So now I'm a bit further from starting than I once was.

[This message has been edited by 1fatcat (edited 01-02-2011).]

I'm going to do the 3800 with a six speed also. Just waiting on some funding. Ill be watching your thread. Good luck.

Looks good so far. Interesting to see a white engine block. But it looks good.

i kinda dig the white. its just going to show alot of dirt and grease fairly easy.

I plan to drop this trans in my 3800sc in the summer at some point, too. I'll be following along.

What are those pipes?

The pipes are exhaust headers for a Grand Prix GTP. I got them off ebay. I'm not certain they will work in a Fiero though? We'll see. Anyone else running headers on their L67?

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: The pipes are exhaust headers for a Grand Prix GTP. I got them off ebay. I'm not certain they will work in a Fiero though? We'll see. Anyone else running headers on their L67?

Yes, I have Pacesetters on the 4T65E-HD, however with the Manual and headers there will be some fitment issues.

also, the trunk needs to be cut.

Thanks for the tips nosrac. I had fitment problems with the headers with the 4T65-HD too. I haven't tried them with the F40 bolted up yet, but I believe you. I thought I had read that the counter weight of the shift mechanism interferes? I don't think I will change plans on the tranny again. It was a big set back in the project to go with the F40.

The reason behind all this was: I had originally purchased an 84 Fiero w/iron duke & auto and I wanted to stick with auto due to pedals & shifter compatability. However, the 84 was in pretty tough shape. I decided to sell the 84 and buy a Fiero that was a little cleaner to do the swap to. So I bought this 87. The price was right, the car is clean, but it's a stick. So I decided to just buy the car, sell the 4T65-HD and go with the F40. And as for the F23, it does sound like a better fitment, but I just want to use the F40. Mainly because I already have it, but also for the 6 gears. I know it isn't geared optimally for the L67, but it still has 6 to choose from.

So do I need to cut my trunk due to the headers, or the F40? I REALLY don't want to cut the trunk, it's the only place to put the groceries.

you only have to cut the bottom of the trunk .if you cant fit your groceries in the top half of the trunk , then shop more often and you wont fill the the trunk up so much .sell the f40 and get an f23 .you already have the axles to fit the f23 .by the time you collect everything to make that f40 work , you wont be able to afford groceries .JK

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: Thanks for the tips nosrac. I had fitment problems with the headers with the 4T65-HD too. I haven't tried them with the F40 bolted up yet, but I believe you. I thought I had read that the counter weight of the shift mechanism interferes? I don't think I will change plans on the tranny again. It was a big set back in the project to go with the F40. So do I need to cut my trunk due to the headers, or the F40? I REALLY don't want to cut the trunk, it's the only place to put the groceries.

I had some ebay headers that did not fit but I was able to return them and get some pacesetters. There is one brand of ebay headers that DO NOT fit but most others work just fine. You need to cut the bottom part of the trunk using those headers if you plan on using a muffler. However, custom or WCF headers fit without trunk modification.

Need some help with the clutch. I understand the 95 ranger 3.0 clutch disk will fit, but what pressure plate do I use with the camaro flywheel? Do I use a camaro pressure plate? A fiero pressure plate?

I know that the depth of the assembly needs to be shimmed deeper into the trans, but I would like to get the disc and plate first so I can measure for shim distance.

I am aware that spec makes a clutch set, but it seems unclear if shimming is still needed with there set. If I need to shim either way, I would rather use off the shelf clutch components.

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: Need some help with the clutch. I understand the 95 ranger 3.0 clutch disk will fit, but what pressure plate do I use with the camaro flywheel? Do I use a camaro pressure plate? A fiero pressure plate? I know that the depth of the assembly needs to be shimmed deeper into the trans, but I would like to get the disc and plate first so I can measure for shim distance. I am aware that spec makes a clutch set, but it seems unclear if shimming is still needed with there set. If I need to shim either way, I would rather use off the shelf clutch components.

Spec makes a clutch for the F40/3800 combination....You use a stock uncut 3800 flywheel and Specs clutch set and you are done...No mixing/matching things.....this setup was made for a guy that out an F40 in a Grand Prix....The parts number is on the net in his build Thread if you do a search...This will keep things simple and sway from using a thick spacer between the flywheel/clutch like that V-8 guy does.....

Looks very nice

OK, thanks MstangsBware! Any idea what stage spec I should buy?
My engine is mostly stock with the fallowing mods:

0.010" thinner head gaskets
3.4" charger pulley
fairly well polished, mildly ported M90
head were "cleaned up" a bit, just took off some sharp edges. Didn't hog some stock out or anything, just smoothed out the bowls and runner edges.
stock cam, stock rockers
headers w/2.5" exhaust system
free flowing intake
tuned PCM

























I'm guessing it should be about 300 crank horse power and 300 lbs torque? I plan on daily driving the car with WOT runs here and there, but no hard speed shifting, very few clutch dumps (if any?) and no 1/4 mile runs. Well, maybe a couple 1/4 runs just to have some numbers, but if I go to the track it will probably only be once...just to see what it does. So basically, it will be my daily driven grocery getter that smears the cheese off the take-out order pizza

Any idea what stage spec clutch I should get? I DO NOT want a super grabby clutch. Looking for as close to stock feel as possible, but with some extra holding power.
Thanks

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: OK, thanks MstangsBware! Any idea what stage spec I should buy?

I have used SPEC Stage 3 clutches in the manuel swaps I have put together.....

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: OK, thanks MstangsBware! Any idea what stage spec I should buy? My engine is mostly stock with the fallowing mods: 0.010" thinner head gaskets 3.4" charger pulley fairly well polished, mildly ported M90 head were "cleaned up" a bit, just took off some sharp edges. Didn't hog some stock out or anything, just smoothed out the bowls and runner edges. stock cam, stock rockers headers w/2.5" exhaust system free flowing intake tuned PCM I'm guessing it should be about 300 crank horse power and 300 lbs torque? I plan on daily driving the car with WOT runs here and there, but no hard speed shifting, very few clutch dumps (if any?) and no 1/4 mile runs. Well, maybe a couple 1/4 runs just to have some numbers, but if I go to the track it will probably only be once...just to see what it does. So basically, it will be my daily driven grocery getter that smears the cheese off the take-out order pizza Any idea what stage spec clutch I should get? I DO NOT want a super grabby clutch. Looking for as close to stock feel as possible, but with some extra holding power. Thanks

dont get the stage 3 spec if you dont like super grabby clutches.. the stage 3 has a hard fast engagement and has an issue with chatter. go with either the spec stage 2+ or the stage 3+, both are much more streetable and will handle the power level you are working with just fine. the 3+ would be the choice if you plan on building the engine up to 400 HP, but if you are sticking with 350 or less, the 2+ will do you just fine.

I ordered the spec stage 2+. It will be a week or two before I see it.

Does anyone have a part number or application for the hydraulic throw out bearing to steel line adapter/coupler? I know I seen it somewhere, but I can't find it now

I would have gotten the stage 3 or 3 +.
You will burn that disk for sure. Well maybe not if you drive it like a little old lady. so far only the stage 3 has held on my car.

You can rip out the areas in the red, just keep that same "edge". The area in the green is also another area you can try to clean out if you want, I usually do not.

quote I ordered the spec stage 2+. It will be a week or two before I see it.

The 3800SC requires a very upgraded clutch... remember that the stage2 was designed to be a stock replacment... which was designed for less than half the torque you will be making.

I suggest a stg4, full face copper disk, unsprung to most anyone doing a manual 3800 swap. Its just as drivable if not more drivable than most clutches, and has great holding power. The break in procedure is very specific on the full face clutches vs the stg2 puck style which are a bit more lenient.

With the mods you are talking about, and a decent exhaust, you are going to be able to see 300 WHEEL horsepower fairly easily, 300 crank is pretty much the starting point of a mostly stock swap using an accurately tuned PCM.

I think the order on the clutch has already been processed, so I probably can't change it now. I guess I'll just figure on having to spend another 500 shortly after it's done

As for the blower outlet, I had read that opening it up beyond the point I did would result in a loss of air velocity and loss of efficiancy? But at any rate, it's all back together now and I'm not gonna tear it down again for any further porting.

Anyone know the application of that hydraulic line adapter? I searched and found it's from a grand am? Never stated what year grand am though?

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/078656.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/099565.html

I think it is one of these

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: Anyone know the application of that hydraulic line adapter? I searched and found it's from a grand am? Never stated what year grand am though?

GM part # 24233802. This part # also includes the master cylinder. GM Parts Direct sells them for about $75.

If you are selling the auto trans that came with the 3800, please PM me

Peter

Thanks Fieroguru, but OUCH! 75 bucks? I thought there was a little adapter about 2 inches long that worked?

Cam-a-lot (love the user name) PM sent.

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: Thanks Fieroguru, but OUCH! 75 bucks? I thought there was a little adapter about 2 inches long that worked? Cam-a-lot (love the user name) PM sent.

It comes with the proper size clutch master cylinder (the fiero one is too big) and GM sells them as a package. If you think $75 for the hydraulics is a big expense... you are in for quite a rude awakening once you start purching the other needed parts...

I am pretty sure any of the F23, F35 and F40 stock applications use the same or similar plastic quick connect/bleeder.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-20-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: I ordered the spec stage 2+. It will be a week or two before I see it.

Well, that was fast. It showed up today. I probably won't have time to work on it this weekend though. It looks alarmingly puny to hold back 300 lbs, the friction material is not very thick either It also just looks like there is no way the disc splines are going to reach deep enough into the bellhousing to enguage the input shaft? I will update the fitment as soon as I can.

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: Well, that was fast. It showed up today. I probably won't have time to work on it this weekend though. It looks alarmingly puny to hold back 300 lbs, the friction material is not very thick either It also just looks like there is no way the disc splines are going to reach deep enough into the bellhousing to enguage the input shaft? I will update the fitment as soon as I can.

I ran the spec 2+ when I got tired of being abused by the spec stage 3 (the stage 3 held great, had crappy drivability in stop/go traffic)... The stage 2+ never held the power in 7K miles before I yanked it for a spec stage 3+. If your clutch doesn't hold the power, you can't dyno it or properly tune WOT. With the stage 3+ my combo dynod 283whp/317wtq. The stage 2+ might hold a stock 3800sc, but once you start increasing power it will become marginal/too weak really quick. The stage 3+ is the best compromize in power holding (similar to the stage 3) but with much improved drivability vs. the stage 3 (bot not as silky smooth at the stage 2+).

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: It also just looks like there is no way the disc splines are going to reach deep enough into the bellhousing to enguage the input shaft? I will update the fitment as soon as I can.

Looks like we've come to the next hurtle. There seems to be a fitment issue with the clutch disc. Basically, the splines on the disc need to be extended further toward the transmission. Looks to be an engineering problem. I will contact Spec and see if we cant come up with a solution. Anyone who wants to read about it, here is the link. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/113899.html

I will update this thread once a solution has been found with the clutch. Anyone looking to order a clutch for this application, you may want to hold off for a little while until this gets figured out.

EDIT: Spec has come up with a solution to the clutch. If anyone is looking at the Spec clutch for this application, proceed with confidence.

[This message has been edited by 1fatcat (edited 03-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: I think the order on the clutch has already been processed, so I probably can't change it now. I guess I'll just figure on having to spend another 500 shortly after it's done As for the blower outlet, I had read that opening it up beyond the point I did would result in a loss of air velocity and loss of efficiancy? But at any rate, it's all back together now and I'm not gonna tear it down again for any further porting. Anyone know the application of that hydraulic line adapter? I searched and found it's from a grand am? Never stated what year grand am though?

the stage 2+ is fine dude, you will be fine. it is rated for 400 lb/ft of TQ... the other guy has NO idea what he is talking about.

quote Originally posted by stickpony: the F40 flywheels needs to be thicker, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5".. someone else im sure can get you exact measurements

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/078656.html

quote Originally posted by stickpony: the stage 2+ is fine dude, you will be fine. it is rated for 400 lb/ft of TQ... the other guy has NO idea what he is talking about.

Hmmmm, you must be referring to someone who hasn't actually ran that particular clutch on a dyno proven setup and encountered slippage well below the rated 400 lb/ft rating.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: I ran the spec 2+ when I got tired of being abused by the spec stage 3 (the stage 3 held great, had crappy drivability in stop/go traffic)... The stage 2+ never held the power in 7K miles before I yanked it for a spec stage 3+. If your clutch doesn't hold the power, you can't dyno it or properly tune WOT. With the stage 3+ my combo dynod 283whp/317wtq.

Ok, can someone help me with the flywheel? I used a stock, brand new, never resurfaced 2000 Camaro 3.8L V6 flywheel. Here is a measurement of the distance from block mating surface to flywheel friction surface of 1.165".



Not real sure where you guys are measuring the thickness from? Is it the total thickness? Should I set the flywheel on a flat surface and measure it's height?

Thanks for this detailed post. I am following it with great interest as I will be doing this swap in June/July of this summer.

One question on the flywheel, although this question does not relate to your particular problem.

Does the flywheel have the right balance for your engine? From what I have read, the 3800s are externally balanced like the pre 88 Fiero 2.8s. I do not know if the balance is the same for all 3800.
Jim

quote Originally posted by bowrapennocks: Does the flywheel have the right balance for your engine?

Not in my opinion, read this: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/113828.html
I plan on trying the mirror balance method, just haven't gotten that far yet. I more or less anticipated some clutch trouble from the research I did here, so I'm leaving that part for after the clutch. I know it sounds backwards, but I usually end up working that way

I might get started on that this week though, due to the hold on the clutch right now.

[This message has been edited by 1fatcat (edited 01-24-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: Ok, can someone help me with the flywheel? I used a stock, brand new, never resurfaced 2000 Camaro 3.8L V6 flywheel. Here is a measurement of the distance from block mating surface to flywheel friction surface of 1.165". Not real sure where you guys are measuring the thickness from? Is it the total thickness? Should I set the flywheel on a flat surface and measure it's height?

I am sure there are other opinions, but I prefer to speak in terms of the overall depth of the flywheel clutch face vs. overall flywheel thickness. In the end, it is the depth of the clutch that is the issue and the optimal depth would be the same across engine platforms regardless of crankshaft flange protrusion from the bellhousing face. With the 3800 and most other FWD GM engines the crankshaft flange is within 1/16" of being perfectly flush with the bellhousing flange, so many tend to treat the flywheel thickness (crank flange to clutch surface) the same as the installed depth of the flywheel clutch face... but they are not exactly the same. And once you start looking at other engines with protruding crank flanges and adapter plates it becomes easy to get confused...

If you are using a pressure plate similar to the stock G6 one, then the flywheel clutch surface should be around 1.65" from the bellhousing. If you are using a more typical fiero style pressure plate, then the flywheel clutch surface can be up to 2.0" from the bellhousing face (this is the approximate location of the Archie F40 flywheel spacer places the clutch face)

If you choose to space the flywheel out, you might be better off to use the 3800SC automatic flex plate (to keep the ring gear in the proper place) and then remove the ring gear from the flywheel (and clearance it so the flywheel will clear the ring gear on the flex plate - this is how I did my LS4/F40 flywheel. Another option would be to turn the flywheel down for the getrag (around .81-.83 from bellhousing face) and use the Archie F40 spacer... there is a used one for sale in the mall.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-24-2011).]