Hello everybody, it is just after the New Year 2005. I started this Northstar project with my 86 GT I bought over a year ago. I have desided to do the Northstar swap on an 88 coupe. I like the brakes set up alot better on the 88 Fiero, its alot better design. I was going to use an 88 4 banger Fiero as a donor for my little project, but desided to just use an 88 GT. ------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 93 Northstar and 5 speed Getrag 219customs@verizon.net My 86 GT build thread
[This message has been edited by GSXRBOBBY (edited 09-22-2005).]
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11:01 PM
PFF
System Bot
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
The thread is going to be done for a few reasons. 1. I am going to show a complete Northstar engine swap. I have talked with most of the guys on here and I am going to try hard to have this done as easy as I can. Yes there is no wrong or right way to do an engine swap. I am just going to try to do it where it will be easy to maintain the motor and will be easy to work on it and make adjustments. Well as easy as I can since a Northstar is one of the largest motors that has been swapped into a Fiero. I will also have alot of pictures detailing and showing the engine swap. That way you can follow along with as little questions as possible. (The swap will be with a 1993 Seville STS Northstar, I am also using a 5 speed Getrag transaxle) Spec clutch "stage 3K and an alum flywheel. http://speclutches.com/specMain.html
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11:02 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
2. I am going to be putting a fiberglass replacement nose on the car from Norms Fiberglass from the South Bend Indiana area. I am going to be taking the car to his shop soon and will bring along my camera! Yes Norm, more free ad time from me....haha!!! The only few colors I have seen Norms Nose is the yellow car he has
I have seen the blue Notchback with the Lambo style doors
And I have seen the silver Fiero just completed
So..I have desided I want to paint this a color that is different, I have looked at alot of colors out there and have desided on a color and paint from The House of Kolors, that does cost alot more but I just love the color or should I say Kolor? haha http://www.houseofkolor.com/hok/index.jsp
I am going to repaint this car myself, I am also going to show it "step by step" as I do it. And I am not just going to be doing a normal repaint job. I am using some of the most $$$$$ paint out there and it will be some of the hardest type of paint to shoot, "A pearl and Candy"!!!! If I can do it so can you guys.
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11:03 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
3. I am looking at just doing a Fastback rear with an aftermarket taillight I have designed. But that is not set in stone just yet, I am still looking into a few things.
4. I have ordered Mr. Mike seats and I will show how I installed them and how they look. I will also be getting from Mr. Mike a DVD on how to install the seats so this should be really easy. Also when I called down there to place the order I ended up talking to him for about a half hour. Really nice guy and very helpful, he asked whatelse I was doing to the interior and he gave out alot of free and good advise! http://www.mrmikes.com I bought the seats just as you see them, without any patch on them.
5. I am going to show the 88 Brake upgrade package I have put together using the 12" Corvette rotors. When they are completed I will install them on my car first just to be sure they work and line up right. Also, so I can send out some install information to help make things easier. I do have alot of the notes already written down, I will just have to complete the notes and have some pictures to go along with the notes. Whatever I can do to make things easier! https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056772.html
6. I am also going to redo some of the interior, the dash is in good condition so I am just looking at rebuilding the center console from the radio around the shifter and back. Still having them match the Mr. Mike seats and also having the inner door panels match up.
[This message has been edited by GSXRBOBBY (edited 01-05-2005).]
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11:04 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
(The ECM or as Cadillac words it PCM, the chip has been reprogrammed by a forum member WCapmen for a very low cost of $200.00. Which is alot lower then the $1000.00 plus cost of the Holley Cammander.
***Note the reprogramming of the ECM chip can only be done on the 93, 94, & 95 Northstar intakes. 96 to 99 ECM intakes will require the Holly Cammander.
I bought the motor from a broker I have became friends with about a hour from me. I bought the motor, wiring harness, ECM, motor mounts, exhaust manifolds, alternator, starter, and oil cooler from him. I paid $1100.00 for everything, the motor had just about 100,000 miles on it when it was pulled from the Seville STS.
The 88 Fiero had an auto trans in it, so I have bought a 5 speed Getrag transaxle. ***Note I have been told a 4 speed and a 5 speed Izusu transaxle will not work with the Northstar swap. The shift cable are different and will hit. When I bought the trans it came painted with just primer, I did paint it black but I have desided I do not like it black. I am going to be repainting it silver with some orange parts to match the outer color.
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11:05 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
So far I do need to thank a few people if you gus don't mind? 1. Will from the forum here, he has given me alot of help and has always been there to answer any questions I have had. It has been nice to have 2 or 3 ways of doing things and ask Will and come to find out there is only 1 way and he has tried them and doesn't work. Thanks for saving me alot of time in trial and error! 2. WCapmen, not only has he reprogrammed the ECM chip for me but has also given me alot of help! 3. Fiero Warehouse for a nice side scoop that will allow me to run any kind of air intake and allow me to run a larger than stock oil cooler on the pass. side. 4. KISSMYSSFIERO, "Joe" has helped alot and has been there to answer any questions I have had. Joe has worked on and stripped more of these cars than I have even drove! 5. Norms Fiberglass, Norm has become a friend also through this forum. He is a really nice guy and has been helpful with getting me a good deal on one of his noses. Working with me and taking some parts in trade. 6. Firefox, "Mark" has also become a good friend. He has also put up with me asking alot of questions about painting. Besides that he has just showed that him and his wife are some of the nicest people out there! Again I got to meet them from this forum! 7. Snoopy "Charlie" has become a good friend also...he has also helped me out. When he made that bracket that replaced the power steering pump, he made second one for me which also saved me a few hours. Again thanks! 8. TA6SPD "Rich" Not only did he do alot of welding for me, and more to come (I HOPE) he has become a good friend. Him and his wife are very nice! Also, he has helped others. He just has a big heart!
[This message has been edited by GSXRBOBBY (edited 01-05-2005).]
Well here we go guys and thanks again for the support. This is the reason why I do things like this. To help out where and when I can. I did get my flywheel a while back and when it comes from Spec it is ready to bolt on. When its bolted on it lines up just right.
I have not had the clutch on yet, I am going to wait until I am ready to put the motor in the car for the last time. I don't want to worry about damage to it. I know there will be alot of trial and error, putting to motor up to see if it fits, pull it out make some more room here and there and try it again. I already know since I am doing the Northstar swap in an 88 the strut towers are going to be to far in so the pass. side is going to have to be modified a little bit. It needs to go out about 1/2" if not more. Which also means I will need to go with a coilover susp. in the rear. I also know the bottom of the deck led hinge on the pass side will need the bottom cut off otherwise it will hit the valvecover if I remember right?
But that is getting ahead of myself right now, I still need to get the motor mounted to the cradle. I do have most of the mounts made. I just need to redo one I made and I need to make the last mount. The last mount needed is going to be going just under the coils on the Northstar. I will post some pictures of those soon after they are all done.
Right now I am just somewhat going over the motor to be sure it ready. I pulled the waterpump off for a few reasons. 1. It leaks there rather easy so I am replacing the gaskets 2. It is going to be alot more easy to install and line up the transaxle and clutch set up!
Anything that is removed is replaced with new bolts 8.8 grade, I just bought all new bolts for the bellhousing, some of them seen in the picture above. I am going to reuse the waterpump housing bolts, they came out clean.
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02:12 AM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
Just like everyone knows that has done this swap, to mount the Getrag there is no adpterplate needed. It does bolt up to the Northstar but there are a few things that need to be done first. There is one bolt that does not line up so a "L" bracket type needs to be made and a small cut into the block so a bolt can pass and enter the bellhousing need to be done.
Using a grinder doing it slowly a little at a time there was no problems!
The only other thing that is need so far is the starter on the Northstar is located in a different spot. It is above the flywheel instead of on the side like the Fieros. So a small part of the webbing of the trans needs to be cut away. Here is a picture of the webbing cut out but its before I cleaned up the cuts I made.
Just for extra support I did make a mount the will bolt up the the back-bottom of the trans and will then go over and bolt up to the bottom of the oil pan. I am not sure if I will use that just yet. Still thinking that over, its somewhat large and made from steel so I am going to try to loose as much weight as I can when I can during this build.
Snoopy by the way your welcome, here is a picture of the bracket he made.
He did a great job on it, it looks perfect! Basically it mounts just like the power steering pump does and in the same place. Then an idler pulley is mounted on it and the power steering issue is fixed since the Fiero does not have power steering.
"I will come back and replace this soon with some sizes and prices for the belt and pulley"
Also to help end tonights update on a good note. Since I am using a 93 and it has a magnesium plate on top instead of the newer plastic ones I sanded and resanded it and then polished it. Basically you start sanding with about 250 grit sand paper and get it all level, and then work your way up to a finer sand paper. I ended at 1000 grit and then polished it. By the way, magnesium is alot like wood, it has a grain. And it pitts fast so I will have my work cut out for me keeping this nice!
MMM any better pics of that cover? Is there no way to clear coat it to keep from piting and the such? Good work so far, this one is going in the favorites.
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07:48 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY: Right now I am just somewhat going over the motor to be sure it ready. I pulled the waterpump off for a few reasons. 1. It leaks there rather easy so I am replacing the gaskets 2. It is going to be alot more easy to install and line up the transaxle and clutch set up!
Anything that is removed is replaced with new bolts 8.8 grade, I just bought all new bolts for the bellhousing, some of them seen in the picture above. I am going to reuse the waterpump housing bolts, they came out clean.
One thing you need to be careful of... One or two of the bolts that holds the water manifold to the block/heads is not blind tapped. It protrudes into the cooling jacket. You need to find it (them) and seal them as you put them in or you'll get coolant leakage around the bolt head.
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10:40 AM
THE BEAST Member
Posts: 1177 From: PORT SAINT LUCIE,FLORIDA,USA Registered: Dec 2000
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY: I already know since I am doing the Northstar swap in an 88 the strut towers are going to be to far in so the pass. side is going to have to be modified a little bit. It needs to go out about 1/2" if not more. Which also means I will need to go with a coilover susp. in the rear. I also know the bottom of the deck led hinge on the pass side will need the bottom cut off otherwise it will hit the valvecover if I remember right?
Is this what you mean? Since you’re using coilovers you don’t have to move the motor over at all. You can just take a hammer to your strut tower and make a little dent in it (shown in the photo where the little piece of masking tape is). However if you don’t move the motor over you will have a closer fit where the oil fill cap meets the decklid support. It’s a choice of what one prefers.
Aaron
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[This message has been edited by aaron88 (edited 01-05-2005).]
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12:35 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
One thing you need to be careful of... One or two of the bolts that holds the water manifold to the block/heads is not blind tapped. It protrudes into the cooling jacket. You need to find it (them) and seal them as you put them in or you'll get coolant leakage around the bolt head.
Yes Will I got lucky, when I removed the bolts I did see a few of them were coated orange silicon, which I think means it has een removed before, the old gaskets were the same, had orange type silicon on them? But thanks for the head up!
GSXRBOBBY, Great work, and I have to agree that Will and all the other people you mention, are an amazing help to all the other Forum members!
(I'm watching this closely!) I’m building an 88GT with the getrag and a 93 N-star as well!
I will definitely be very interested in making a bracket like the one that you mention from Snoopy. Could you show some more pictures from it?
What are you doing with the Steering pump pully?
BTW how long did it take to get the Flywheel and clutch from SPEC?
James.
(Sorry I have so many questions)
I will be glad to show more pictures of it, I will take it off this afternoon and take some pictures, I will also trace the front out on some paper and mail it to you if you e-mail me an address?
The power steering pump was removed since I am not using it, I am using the Caddy alternator and A/C so I am looking for the same size pully for the water pump but just as an idealer pulley.
How long did it take to get the flywheel? Did you not read the thread......it took a flipping year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha Or did you mean after I ordered it when they were done? It only took a week to get everything after they were done. I think they still have a few left? Otherwise it shouldn't be more than a week or two now that they have things set up? If I remember right it was $400 for the flywheel and around $300 for the clutch. I have been told the stage 2 may hold up to the Northstar, but for the money get a stage 3, it only a few buck more and it will hold up! I bought there new clutch "stage 3K", the stage 3 is not a clutch you can float at all, its an on or off type of clutch. Which really makes down shifting a ***** , the stage 3K has the hold of a stage 3 but the driveablity of a stage 2.
As you can see I really don't mind questions, thats why I am doing this other than showing off.....haha
Aaron your still with us, I haven't heard from you in a while! Everybody Aaron has a nice build thread on Ottawa Fiero club forum! Please he is another guy that has helped me with some questions I had. To answer Aarons question I want to install the motor as close to the stock V-6 location as possible! That way I will not have to have custom axles made. The passenger side axle is already the longest CV axle GM made. And pushing in the strut tower a small amount "like you pictured" doesn't bug me. I think I can do it and still make it look nice after the inner walls are all repainted. And yes if I do push it all in I am sure I will have to use a coil over type strut. Again to me that is no big deal, I have most of the info. on building a coil over setup from a stock strut. I am looking at getting QA1 racing spring from Summit And a coil over kit package from Coleman Doing them all on KYB gas struts, just see it worth buying Koni's
I started by using paint remover Zip Strip. And then used a sandrotor tool that goes on a drill. I had some deep groves and went after them first. Then I started sanding with my Mouse sander at 180 grit, after I sanded the top plate completely I stated to hand sand it with 300 and just keep moving up. After it was all hand sanded I got out the Craftsman ploish polish kit. It comes with buffer pads that also work off the drill and 4 different cray type bars. I started the drill pad spinning and just rubbed the cray stick on to the pad until the pad changed colors. Then started polishing the plate with the pad, after time you will know when you need to add more clay to the pad. After the plate was done I used a soft terry cloth to wipe it clean and then used Mothers polish on the plate.
***NOTE: I have looked into spraying it down with a clear but was told it would turn yellow. I did find House of Kolors has a clear that doesn't yellow and if it was sprayed on with an extra amount of hardener so it died fast it may work. But if it doesn't I'm screwed!
Here are few mounts I did have to buy: This is the trans mount for the driverside rear mount, part # 2467 Anchor
The is the mount I bought and I am going to use on the driverside front mount. It is for a full size Chevy trans. 4X4, part #2638 and has a lifetime warranty
I am going to mount it to the new front cross member I am making and have a bracket mount from it to the transaxle.
These was made to fit all the way across the plate:
It ended up looking like this:
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01:01 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
I had a picture photoshopped to show what Norms nose will look like with the color I am going with. Now I am just tring to deside on which lights I want to use on the front. Norms normal light set up
with the 2" X 5" double lights (Olds Cutlass)
with 5" round double lights (Older GM)
Just for kicks here it is with black outs, this will not work but it does look bada$$
I have had a guy e-mail me and ask why some of the engine parts have been painted orange? I painted the small plate that did say 32 valve on it and painted the heater core hoses to bring some of the outer color in.
I am going to do the samething for the inside of the car. Not to much though, I am going to have it mostly black and grey leather. The seats the door panels and center console, all to match the Mr. Mike seats. I am going to have the gauges orange faced that I bought from Phil, or should I say Phils son.
I am hoping they are not to much, I am looking at putting them behind a carbon fiber or brushed alum look dash cover "overlay".
I have also just asked Oreif to make me up a chrome/silver and orange door handle tab "Fiero" in chrome and the rest in orange.
I want to get started on my N* sooo badly but the money situation is just too dismal. I'll have to be satisfied watching others put their project together.
Great start! I'll be lurking around the thread as you update it.
BTW Por 15 has a non yellowing clearcoat. I haven't used it ...but if its as tuff as what I'm painting my chassis with it will oulast just about anything
David
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09:48 AM
PFF
System Bot
Master Tuner Akimoto Member
Posts: 2267 From: South Florida,USA Registered: Jul 2003
Bobby on the engine cover I recently came across a salution while sanding my 4.9 magnesium covers ,no matter how muchI sanded it still wasn't right it had small pin holes so what I did was to mix a mixture fiber glass resin and used a fine camel air brush to paint it on and let it dry and it came out beautiful and after sanding it there was not a single hole and it is now smooth .
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11:29 AM
Jan 10th, 2005
THE BEAST Member
Posts: 1177 From: PORT SAINT LUCIE,FLORIDA,USA Registered: Dec 2000
I am redoing them, I have desided to make a few changes. I will be getting back to making the mounts in a few weeks after some room come open here. I am using the same idea that I talked about but just a bit different. I will show more later, I can make some templets out of them if you want?
Also, I have changed plains again. I don't think I am going to use the 88 Coupe Joes has, it looks like he is wanting to do a bigger project then what he first thought he wanted and doesn't want to do it on his Formula? I am going to go get an 88 GT within a week or so that I thought would be great for me to do my ideas on. You will know where I got it when I post a few pictures later! It is an 88 GT with no motor, which will get the Northstar I have, it has a Getrag that will be a nice back up trans. maybe even use mine as a back up. Not sure yet? The interior needs work and that will get my Mr. Mike seats, I will just need to see what else the interior needs when I get it? But then again this all depends on how solid the chassis is?
The thermostat housing on my 93 Northstar was ruff, I tried to paint it and clean it up but it was to far gone to clean and paint didn't stick! So I bought a new one, I got it from GM parts direct. I got it today but was worried for a few mins., mine was a black plastic and the new one came made of aluminum. It looks like it will fit and looks the same as the old one.
The other thing is its aluminum, which is means I have to polish, I can't just paint it or leave it. So I see myself spending the afternoon tomorrow sanding?!?!?!
It is an 88 GT with no motor, which will get the Northstar I have, it has a Getrag that will be a nice back up trans. maybe even use mine as a back up. Not sure yet? The interior needs work and that will get my Mr. Mike seats, I will just need to see what else the interior needs when I get it? But then again this all depends on how solid the chassis is?
