I'm reading up on this swap and it seems like every link i click on i learn something new.. im starting to feel like im in over my head on this swap.
I'm going to be using a 98-02 3800SC with a 4T65E-HD trans (or w/e is connected to the 3800sc)
It will be going into a 87 GT 2.8 Auto.

I just want to know all the stuff i have to do.
all the stuff i should buy.
is the wiring hard or should i just pay someone to do it?
whats all the little stuff i have to do.

make me feel like this swap is a piece of cake.. i feel like its going to be a nightmare. I do have an extra cradle for an 87 gt, i would like to get the new motor, trans, run all the wiring, and have a complete cradle sitting there, so all i have to do is pull the old and put in the new cradle.. could it be that easy?

if so what do i need to make a complete cradle? mounts? axles? anything else?

Its difficult to explain everything, each one is a little different, In addition to mounts, and axles you will need your coolant hoses, figure out how you want to run your heater hoses and plumb them. Figure out how you want to run your fuel lines. Build an exhaust system, figure out your intake. Modify your throttle bracket. Get or build something to retrofit the shiter cable because direction needs reversed.

Building a wiring harness is not that difficult if you are able to read wiring intructions and take your time. Of course knowing how to solder wires is a plus ! No crimp connections !

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Its difficult to explain everything, each one is a little different, In addition to mounts, and axles you will need your coolant hoses, figure out how you want to run your heater hoses and plumb them. Figure out how you want to run your fuel lines. Build an exhaust system, figure out your intake. Modify your throttle bracket. Get or build something to retrofit the shiter cable because direction needs reversed. Building a wiring harness is not that difficult if you are able to read wiring intructions and take your time. Of course knowing how to solder wires is a plus ! No crimp connections !

i think im going to get motor and trans mounts from WCF, what coolant hoses do you use? is there a part number or a certain car they will work from? as for heater hoses.. do you have to have them? im not planning on the car having heat. i dont drive it in the winter anyways. fuel lines wont be bad i dont think, ill just get some fuel line and route it where it needs to go. as for exhaust i was thinking about getting the 3800 headers off ebay for a gtp and modifying the exit flange so it points towards the ground sooner so i dont have to cut the trunk up. what exactly do you have to do to the throttle bracket? it should be about the same isnt it? the TBs seem to be in about hte same spot. as for the shifter cable, i was thinking about going with WCF's linkage they have. do you need a new shifter cable or just that linkage?
also will the stock fiero shifter work?? since it was originally a 3spd car going to a 4spd?

i think i might give that wiring harness a try if you have a good source for the instructions... i tore every wire out of my 83s10 v8 and did all the wiring from scratch. lol why no crimping! i love crimping! haha

I will have to dig up the coolant hose numbers, its out in the garage, just bought some last week that were a perfect fit !

The heater hoses work as a bypass for the coolant system untill the T-stat opens, I would recommend keeping them, but if you dont want to bother you should loop them together. You will need to blockoff the line on the Fiero, 87-88 are connected directly into the right coolant tube.

Fuel lines are easy, just want to route them away from belts, if you dont have A/C you'll have plenty of room.

I have never messed with headers or anything, so far been sticking to the factory manifolds.

The trottle cable for the Fiero is longer between the mount and cable end, you can lengthen the bracket, or loop the cable back through and bolt it to the side of the throttle linkage

You would just need that linkage from WCF, it fits the Fiero cable. The linkage makes up the difference for the extra gear, your shifter will just not read right in 2 or 1, since it will be 3,2,1.

NO CRIMPING because these are low voltage signals, any corrosion or moisture can throw off the voltage and your car wont run right, try and track that down !!

I have instructions as does GMtuners.com site, I recommend Ryan at GMtuners for your PCM programming.

thanks so much for your help man i really do appreciate it.

so i wrote down this so far. lol
keep heater hoses
coolant hose #'s are- ( if you could get these sometime that would be awesome!)
Fuel Lines easy w/no ac
use factory manifolds (what has to be done for the rest of the exhaust? will the fiero exhaust bolt up at the downpipe?)
modify throttle cable
buy shift linkage, coolant fill tube from WCF
buy aluminum cradle bushings from RD


anything else you can think of that i need to buy, or need to modify?
im going to try to write everything i can down so i pretty much have a "how to" sheet.

if i crimped wires could i shrink wrap both sides? or do you not recommend it at all?

Dont crimp at all, vibration works those loose, solder and shrink wrap !

You dont have to use the factory manifolds, just sayin its possible, No the Fiero exhaust wont fit, you will need something like this for the factory manifold.


If you can mig weld you can make your fill tube easy enough. I am working on a shift linkage design, gotta get it done on the car I'm working on.

You will need to send your PCM for programming, get an intake and filter, Get an A/C delete pulley if no A/C, get a 3" ribbed pulley to replace the smooth one on the main belt tensioner for belt re-routing.

I'm sure i'm not thinking of something !

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Dont crimp at all, vibration works those loose, solder and shrink wrap ! You dont have to use the factory manifolds, just sayin its possible, No the Fiero exhaust wont fit, you will need something like this for the factory manifold. If you can mig weld you can make your fill tube easy enough. I am working on a shift linkage design, gotta get it done on the car I'm working on. You will need to send your PCM for programming, get an intake and filter, Get an A/C delete pulley if no A/C, get a 3" ribbed pulley to replace the smooth one on the main belt tensioner for belt re-routing. I'm sure i'm not thinking of something !

ok, i wonder what other mods i would have to do if i used headers instead of manifolds... i really dont want to cut the trunk floor out.
i wrote down the pcm programming and the delete if i decide to go with no ac

if you get a chance id really appreciate the coolant hose numbers.
im starting to feel a little better about this!

The above exhaust pic is done without cutting the trunk, this is it in an 84, notice the trunk bottom is still there.


If you do use A/C you will need the modified hoses

I will get the hose #'s tomorrow for you.

PM me your Email and I will send you my spreadsheet if you have MS excel, or something that can read .xls

PM sent... i think. lol

You mentioned not having heat, since it will be a summer car. Even if it did have heat, I would remove the A/C. In the summer, you just roll the windows down and remove the t-tops/sunroof if you have them. Having A/C is additional weight (maybe negligible, but it's still weight) and using it saps horsepower (I'm not sure how much, but I don't like the idea anyway) and uses more gas.

I'm partial. I don't live in unbearably hot conditions during summer, so A/C is unnecessary to me.
Sorry it's a little off-topic.

quote Originally posted by Navras: You mentioned not having heat, since it will be a summer car. Even if it did have heat, I would remove the A/C. In the summer, you just roll the windows down and remove the t-tops/sunroof if you have them. Having A/C is additional weight (maybe negligible, but it's still weight) and using it saps horsepower (I'm not sure how much, but I don't like the idea anyway) and uses more gas. I'm partial. I don't live in unbearably hot conditions during summer, so A/C is unnecessary to me. Sorry it's a little off-topic.

i probly wont be running ac... just one more thing in the engine bay, one more thing for the engine to turn. id rather not.. but this car is partially my wifes, so well se what she says... if it gets to hot in the car, DRIVE FASTER! haha

AC delco EP381, dont get the off brand equivalent, make sure its Delco !

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 09-30-2012).]

here are the coolant hose numbers
71030CS and 61159 183-XL

quote Originally posted by fierofan25: I would use the ep381 fuel pump it is good for 400HP and it is only 55$ Thanks Lonnie

Is this pump also a dirct swap with the same connector and physical size ? Thats a good price !

Yes it is a direct fit. Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...fPartsQ5fAccessories

[This message has been edited by fierofan25 (edited 02-13-2011).]

I did not have my original coolant fill tube to modify, nor did I purchase one for $30. A very simple solution, and very cost effective, is just to get a threaded iron pipe T. I also puchased a plug, with the whole things costing only a few dollars. The pipe has a thick lip on it and if you grind it down some it will seal and work fine. Also, it is less noticeable than the larger coolant fill T.

Im subscribing and adding to my favs this will be an awesome thread for when i start my 3800 SC swap thanks and keep up the good work (sorry i have no advice to give)

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1987 Black GT with BIG plans

keep bringing in the information! I'm still writin down stuff! post anything else you can think of that hasnt been covered about the 3800sc swap!

How about some "How To" stuff

Making a 3800 water neck from the Fiero V6 water neck.

Fiero water neck


Cut out the section with the line fittings


Set two halves in place on engine and grind mating parts till you get the desired angle and mark at proper rotation.


Weld two halves together


Slightly elongate holes toward center with a carbide burr till they will line up with the 3800's mounting holes. doesn't take much.


Use the 3800's T-stat housing bolts and a ne Fiero gasket with a little RTV and your done.

mike i like the belt routing can you give a final belt size, i am trying to run a newer style alt on my swap. If you dont mind ill pm you with my email addy ,and if its cool you send me the spread sheet as well?

this maybe one of the most helpful threads if went to! all the little stuff that nobody really thinks about when they are asked "what do you do for a 3800 swap"

Thanks everyone with the input and pics! keep them coming!

He is keeping A/C, routing is still the same if you use an A/C delete pulley though.

I will get the belt size, and check my coolant hose numbers in a few.

signature

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10.5@134 3800 turbo 88 coupe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5li6oojNCIM

Ultimate 3800 swap thread

Belt was 83.5"

hoses are Dayco B87659, and E71082

Duno if your interested, but I have a modified T-stat housing if your interested...
I would sell it for cheap, as I am not going to be using it... I can post a pic if your interested...

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Duno if your interested, but I have a modified T-stat housing if your interested... I would sell it for cheap, as I am not going to be using it... I can post a pic if your interested...

for sure! let me know on a price.. and if you gotta pic i would like to see it!

quote Originally posted by 87GTV6: for sure! let me know on a price.. and if you gotta pic i would like to see it!

its at my shop; I will post a pic tomorrow...

quote Originally posted by ALJR: its at my shop; I will post a pic tomorrow...

Ohhh crap... I forgot... had one of those days... I will do it tomorrow, sorry...

We really need a 3800 specific forum here.
That would be awesome!

quote Originally posted by deezil: We really need a 3800 specific forum here. That would be awesome!

It has been discussed...
Seems the consensus is we already have a construction zone where allot of good info already exists...

quote Originally posted by ALJR: It has been discussed... Seems the consensus is we already have a construction zone where allot of good info already exists...

Unfortunately the search engine is not all that great.
And half the links with pics are dead in previous *ultimate* threads.

I still really think there needs to be a separate 3800 forum here.