I have an '86 with the grand am upgrade on the front and stock '88 brake setup in the rear. (88 cradle swap) Right now it has the cheap parts store grand am pads and rotors. My brakes fade out rather quickly trying to slow down from 140mph. I really need to do something about that and was wondering if I can get away with just putting some race pads on. I really don't want to spend the money on larger rotors and calipers but I would hate to waste it on grand am race pads if they don't perform. Thoughts?
If you think I should try the EBC pads, red or yellow? I'm leaning towards yellow since they are more on the race side. The amount of dust and lifetime isn't much of a concern.
Not an expert by any means but from what I know I would probably go with the yellowstuffs in your position if you aren't worried about dust or lifetime. They're probably about as good as you're going to get for a track/street pad so it'll give you an idea if just having a pad upgrade is going to be enough for you. Another plus is they supposedly don't require a warm up for good braking power but do improve as warm up occurs nonetheless.
The only other consideration with the EBC upgrade pads might be the "bedding" process that EBC recommends. However, they do have a recommendation for vehicles used primarily on the track:
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Bedding in for trackday or race use … We remind you there is NO WARRANTY on any EBC product for race use due to the very varying conditions that can be seen. However, care bedding pads in and monitoring wear will get the best from our products. Most EBC pads including Yellow range pads now have the brake in coating. If possible and using a street based car, fit the pads before the race use and bed in as above for street use. Try to get 200-300 miles urban driving on the pads before racing them. If this is NOT possible and you fit at the track bed like this. Drive two laps steadily applying the brakes every few seconds and then coast for a full lap without any unnecessary braking to allow pads and rotors to cool down. Drive a third lap applying the brakes slightly harder each time and again drive a cooldown lap. Do NOT pull up and park the car with the brakes red hot, try to let them cool as much as possible before coming to a rest. It is also important to understand that the pads must be geometrically matched to the rotor (flat and parallel) before they will bed in chemically. If you do the above bed in and get violent fade first use you MUST repeat the bedding procedure. We get lots of new customers calling in saying my brakes have faded and when they send a digital the pad is only touching on 70-80% of its surface area. Fade early in a pads life is almost a good thing. It is called GREEN fade and will disappear so if you suffer Green fade (you will notice this by smell), you are on the right path and this is not a negative. If you are getting fade after 20 laps and the pads are part worn, then something else needs looking into such as material choice, bleeding of the system, driving style etc …
Also, as you probably already know, EBC claims that running Yellowstuffs on just the front is acceptable
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On Front------------OK to fit or have on rear Original...................Ultimax only Ultimax...................Ultimax or original Greenstuff...............Greenstuff, Ultimax or Redstuff or original Redstuff..................Redstuff or Original Yellowstuff.............Yellowstuff,Green,Red,Ultimax or original
[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 03-20-2012).]
Most "racing" pads are near worthless in street driving. Not enough heat to make then work in normal driving.
so we're are all on the same page, GA front, 88 rear, and Blazer MC?
Changing pads probably won't help.
normally the front brake do more work than the back but the back still work. You upgrade the front brakes but you downgraded the back. Means that your car has front brakes all the work and rear axle is along for the ride and the result is fade problems. if you also have cheap pads then brake fade it is very, Very likely to happen. And any portion valve just make the problems worse as the valve regulates line pressure to the rear calipers...
see my cave, break upgrade in break section and download the Excel sheet. 88 piston is same or 1 mm bigger than older cars, so math changes a little bit but you still have the problem using bigger MC with 88 piston.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I have the stock '86 MC. Should I go with a larger MC? Stopping is fine except if I'm coming down from a very high rate of speed or several panic stops in a short period of time. Going 140 I can only push the breaks for about 5 seconds until they disappear. I read on an evo forum that with the yellow stuff they don't get any brake fade on track days. That's what got me interested.
I have the stock '86 MC. Should I go with a larger MC? Stopping is fine except if I'm coming down from a very high rate of speed or several panic stops in a short period of time. Going 140 I can only push the breaks for about 5 seconds until they disappear. I read on an evo forum that with the yellow stuff they don't get any brake fade on track days. That's what got me interested.
The brake fade you're experiencing is probably due to the pads overheating and out-gassing. When the pads start out-gassing, the gas acts as a lubricant between the pad and rotor.
Pads that are rated for a higher temperature should help. Also, drilled/slotted rotors should help.
Originally posted by theogre: so we're are all on the same page, GA front, 88 rear, and Blazer MC?
I have this exact setup and the brakes aren't the best. What would be the best course of action to fix this since an adjustable proportioning valve won't help? I used to have GA brakes on all four corners till I did the 88 cradle swap, and those brakes were awesome. Now, there is way too much front pinch. It stops ok, but I can lock then front tires without too much trouble, and the pedal is stiff with little travel. I know the bigger booster helps with the pedal effort and stiffness, but that doesn't help my bias problem.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-20-2012).]
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10:32 PM
Mar 21st, 2012
TopNotch Member
Posts: 3537 From: Lawrenceville, GA USA Registered: Feb 2009
Holy crap! These things are UH-MAZING! It takes very little pedal effort to throw me into the windshield. There is no brake fade coming down from 100+. They were down right dangerous until I got used to them. I kept hitting the pedal too hard and it would lock up the fronts. I'm going to have to get some for the rear now. DH said he might have some used Reds that I could borrow to see if those will be enough or I'll have to get yellows for the rear too.
I'm so glad I didn't spring for a bigger brake upgrade. These are going to do just fine
I also noticed there is quite a bit more surface area with the EBC pads. they are longer and wider than the ones I had.
Having a hard time tracking down anything but Greestuff (DP2325)for an '88 fiero. Using the part number DP4325R it comes up for a pontiac 6000. Think it will work for the fiero? Still only a few places sell that part number.
During my search for new 88 rear calipers, the parts I found indicated they would work in an 88 Fiero or Pontiac 6000. I also really like my green stuff pads. If you are going to be hitting 140mhp on a regular basis, you may want to consider upgrading your brake fluid to something like Superblue ATE as it's got a higher boiling point.
------------------ -Chris '85 V6 SE 4sp (SOLD) '88 GT Auto (Under the knife @ Sinister Performance... stay tuned. ) '99 Kawasaki Vulcan 500, owned since new '03 Sentra SE-R Spec V (Daily driver) '09 G37x w/ Premium & Nav (wife's car)
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01:36 AM
lateFormula Member
Posts: 1048 From: Detroit Rock City Registered: Jul 2002
Having a hard time tracking down anything but Greestuff (DP2325)for an '88 fiero. Using the part number DP4325R it comes up for a pontiac 6000. Think it will work for the fiero? Still only a few places sell that part number.
Yes for the 88 you can only find greenstuff pads. The EBC catalog does not list a red or yellow stuff for the 88. The greenstuff can be had here (with free shipping!): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EBC-DP2325/
The DP2325 comes with a set of roll pins, but those pins will not work in the 88 Fiero calipers. Those pads are specified for the Fiero, the 6000, and a couple Lotus models. The roll pins that come with the pads will only work in the Lotus calipers.
Got the rear pads installed today. I stayed with the stock roll pins and noticed that the rear EBC pads were also wider and longer than the ones I had before. It did balance it out like I had hoped. I couldn't put them to the test since it's been raining but I am so happy with the results so far!
If anyone is on the fence like I was about spending this much on pads, I say DO IT!!!!!. Well worth it and beyond my expectations. They have excellent cold bite and I would say it they work just as well as when they are warm.
C4 Corvette rotors installed with new EBC green stuff pads.
