I did a lot of research into what fuel pump I should use to replace the dead one in an '86 GT that I'm restoring. Through eBay I ordered an EP378 pump (and kit) which is supposed be a slightly newer design and flow better than the EP240 listed for this car/engine.

When the package arrived, the box and installation paperwork had AC Delco printed all over it, but no mention of an actual part number. It wasn't until I used a magnifying glass did I discover BGV00240 inscribed in tiny letters on the metal body of the pump itself. It appears this fuel pump is an EP240, not an EP378 as it was advertised to be.

Is it worthwhile raising a fuss with the vendor?

The price was good, $50 which included the kit (strainer, etc) and shipping, but it's not what it was represented to be in the eBay listing.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-21-2012).]

YES!! Raise a fuss! I was going to order a pump from this guy also.

It's called fraud... Let Ebay know.

quote Originally posted by crashyoung: It's called fraud... Let Ebay know.

Absolutely, raise a fuss and slap'em with a negative.

If someone bids on your item when you're selling and comes up with an excuse for why they have to back out of the auction file a non payment claim and don't look back. I believe I got scammed that way after being sympathetic and the same buyer appeared to have won the bid for a lower price than his initial under a different name when it was relisted.

I'll contact the vendor first and I might even include a link to this thread.

He's liable to say that the EP240 pump is included in his list of "interchange" part numbers for the EP378 pump, but the fact remains that the EP378 is a better fuel pump than the EP240... and I ordered the EP378.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Okay, I've sent a message to the vendor through eBay expressing my disappointment that it appears I've received an inferior fuel pump to the one which was listed. I also included a link to this thread, so here's your chance to tell an eBay vendor that we expect to be sent exactly what we bid on... not something that's "close".

worst case senario youll freeze his ebay account until he gives you your money back..and I think paypal account also.. I had this happen on a hockey stick I ordered on ebay... account was frozen until they had to give me my money back.. got to keep the stick also..

I can understand not being happy with not getting what you ordered. You did get a proper pump for the car at a very cheap price. If it is worth the time pain and difficulty to get a different pump that will make your car run exactly like the one they sent you, then good for you, at the end of the year the car will be running exactly the same either way you do it. I would just not cause my self the work and trouble to fix something that just doesn't matter. Now, if it is a matter of Honor to you, go the mat with it and choak the life out of him, just be prepared for him to push back a little, you may find your self fighting off Ebay also, his account may not be the only one frozen. Larry

[This message has been edited by trotterlg (edited 07-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by trotterlg: ...if it is a matter of Honor to you, go the mat with it and choak the life out of him

At this point all I've asked of the vendor is an explanation. What I ultimately decide to do will depend on his response.

Haven't heard anything from the vendor yet (but it is the weekend).

A couple people in his feedback claim he's selling fake pumps. I know that's been a HUGE problem in the past with Walbro, wouldn't be suprised if AC Delco had the same problem. In fact, this same seller is selling Walbro pumps at cheap prices. This is one of many reasons I wouldn't buy from him.

Other things I'd be wary of with this seller:

-All items in feedback are listed as 'private'

-LOTS of negative feedback, even for a seller that sells that many items.

-Sells a LOT of items, 111,981 right now. Usually means just a middleman, and doesn't have time to offer good customer service.

I have an AC Delco fuel pump here, EP386, that I bought from a national chain parts store a couple years ago and paid retail price for, it has the AC Delco part number in a couple places on the box, as well as the GM part #. The pump itself doesn't have an AC Delco logo on it, it has the original GM part number, and below that what looks like a date code.

RWDPLZ, you bring up some interesting points.

My first concern when I received this pump was that there is nothing, absolutely nothing on the outside of the box indicating which AC Delco fuel pump is supposed to be inside the box. There's no way these boxes are on the shelves in a warehouse with anything in them. They must put items in these "generic" AC Delco boxes as they ship the orders. Nothing on the instuctions inside indicate a pump part number either. Again, these appear to be "generic" instructions (other than AC Delco being mentioned).

Looking at eBay feedback for the past year, Global Automotive has received 28368 positive ratings, 327 neutral ratings, and 521 negative ratings. Possibly not a bad percentage of negative ratings considering the overall number of sales.

However, I did some further research and discovered not so good things stated Here and especially Here about this company. Not a perfect record by any means.

My concern now is not so much that it's just a different AC Delco fuel pump than I ordered as it might be a fake AC Delco fuel pump (and/or a dead or soon to die one).

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-22-2012).]

GM has had issues like this for a while, no big surprise. GM has a team that searches and shuts down vendors like this selling fake ACDELCO parts, I'm sure they'll track this guy down eventually.

File a claim and send it back before it is too late. As has already been stated, high volume sellers on Ebay except for brick and mortar companies usually lack the ability to provide good customer service. There's not enough time between taking orders and shipping and that's why when I buy on ebay, ratings and volume are two of the first things I look at. Twice in a row I recieved a turbo that was said to be a T67 from different sellers, one of which down right lied and had to return them both for a full refund.

The problem is you have to know that it's wrong (which you do) to take action. Think about how many pumps may have been sold as something they are not to customers not as sharp as you. It's all about money these days and ebay is flooded with so much "knock off" that before long that's about all you'll be able to find.

quote Originally posted by Jfrost: GM has a team that searches and shuts down vendors like this selling fake ACDELCO parts...

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: It's all about money these days and ebay is flooded with so much "knock off" that before long that's about all you'll be able to find.

This same vendor has been selling on eBay since 1999. I don't know without a doubt yet that this AC Delco fuel pump is counterfeit.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: I have an AC Delco fuel pump here, EP386, that I bought from a national chain parts store a couple years ago and paid retail price for, it has the AC Delco part number in a couple places on the box, as well as the GM part #. The pump itself doesn't have an AC Delco logo on it, it has the original GM part number, and below that what looks like a date code.

I'd be curious to know if any "genuine" AC Delco fuel pumps have the same type of inscription on them as the one I have here.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-22-2012).]

Hmm maybe its been overlooked, but I do know they try to prevent situation like this.

AC Delco's website has a whole page dedicated just to counterfeit parts

http://www.acdelco.com/parts/counterfeit/index.jsp

quote What to Do If You Suspect a Part Is Fake Take it back to the place where you purchased it. Most legitimate dealers/retailers consider their customer service and reputation to be the most important parts of their businesses. And most will do whatever is necessary to make good on the purchase. If you suspect a part you purchased is fake, or if you know anything that could lead to the conviction of counterfeiters, please contact the Global Brand Protection Team and report your suspicions. Global Brand Protection Team If you suspect that the automotive parts you have purchased are counterfeit, please fill out the information form. Once you have completed the information form you can: E-mail by pressing the "E-mail Form" button located on the information form Print and fax information form to: (313) 665-6672 Print and mail information form to: ATTN: Global Brand Protection 300 Renaissance Center MC: 482-C09-C22 Detroit, Michigan 48265 Call the Awareline at 800-244-3460 ALL PERSONAL INFORMATION WILL REMAIN STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL. Please save the part, the packaging, the invoice and the receipt until we contact you (if you choose to be contacted). If you wish to send the part, you may use the above address. YOU SHOULD RECEIVE A RESPONSE WITHIN FIVE (5) BUSINESS DAYS.

Take nice detailed pictures of the packaging, and included components. I'm sure they'll be able to tell you if it's real.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Topic: Should I be ticked off that the fuel pump I received is not what I ordered?

Short Answer: Yes. You have a right to receive exactly what was represented to you prior to purchase ... no more, no less.

From the eBay listing:

NEW AC DELCO FUEL PUMP WITH INSTALLATION KIT EP378
...
YOU ARE BIDDING ON A GENUINE AC DELCO ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP IN ORIGINAL AC DELCO BOX WITH COMPLETE INSTALLATION KIT

They do hint that they may be supplying one pump kit to replace several different OEM part numbers:

NEW AC DELCO FUEL PUMP

AC DELCO # EP240, EP242, EP337, EP338, EP378

GM # 25027120, 25029697, 25116162, 25116164, 25116458, 25163468

DELPHI # FE0039, FE0041, FE0081, FE0082, FE0084, FE0113

AIRTEX # E3240

CARTER # P60460, P60469, P74006, P74008

BOSCH # 69219, 69222

... but nowhere in the ad does it explicitly indicate that you will receive something other than an ACDelco EP378 pump.

FWIW, The ACDelco web site does not show BGV00240 or BGV240 as valid part numbers. They do list the EP240 fuel pump for the '85-'87 Fiero V6, and the EP378 pump for the '88 Fiero V6. Will they interchange? ACDelco doesn't indicate so. The differences may be inconsequential, easily accommodated by the installation kit, but it's impossible to know for sure. I tend to think there's a reason that ACDelco and Delphi both still maintain two different part numbers.

Concerning the part number on the pump you received ... it is laser marked rather than stamped. That may be a hint that the pump was manufactured by/for ACDelco in an Asian plant, but on the other hand it could indicate that it is a no-name, "one size fits all," generic Asian-made pump that was laser marked some time after manufacture.

Concerning installation, you may also be interested in the information in this thread.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-23-2012).]

I received an email this morning from Global Automotive asking for images of the pump. I sent them the ones from this thread.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: AC Delco's website has a whole page dedicated just to counterfeit parts http://www.acdelco.com/parts/counterfeit/index.jsp

Excellent, thanks!

I filled out the form and included a link to this thread.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: ...nowhere in the ad does it explicitly indicate that you will receive something other than an ACDelco EP378 pump.

That's how I read it as well.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Concerning the part number on the pump you received ... it is laser marked rather than stamped. That may be a hint that the pump was manufactured by/for ACDelco in an Asian plant, but on the other hand it could indicate that it is a no-name, "one size fits all," generic Asian-made pump that was laser marked some time after manufacture.

I'm hoping that my communication with ACDelco themselves will help to sort all this out. Stay tuned!

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Looking at eBay feedback for the past year, Global Automotive has received 28368 positive ratings, 327 neutral ratings, and 521 negative ratings. Possibly not a bad percentage of negative ratings considering the overall number of sales.

positive ratings means little...
1. Shill/fake rating. Ebay does little to stop Shill ratings.
2. Most buyers are too dumb to notice or worse don't care when they bought a counterfeit part.

quote Originally posted by Jfrost: Hmm maybe its been overlooked, but I do know they try to prevent situation like this.

Who? Ebay makes a Token effort to stop counterfeiting. Ebay makes huge x huge of money on counterfeit items and hide behind current US laws says don't their problem when users post anything. (same law shield Facebook etc in many cases.)

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

The games have just begun... and I'm not referring to the Olympics in London.

I received a second response from Global Automotive today. So, are they going to be helpful?

First, I'll post my original email to Global Automotive, and then I'll post their responses. (Just as a clarification, I initially assumed that BGV00240 was equivalent to EP240, but that could conceivably be totally wrong.)

quote Hello, I've received an AC Delco fuel pump from you, but I don't believe it's the same fuel pump that was listed (on eBay). The actual part number on the fuel pump is BGV00240. The AC Delco fuel pump in the eBay listing was an EP378. It appears I received an EP240 instead. They are not the same fuel pump, as the EP378 is a newer style and is reported to be superior to the EP240. I've posted about this at the automotive forum that I'm a member of, and there are many people who will no doubt be interested in hearing how this works out. You can see the thread at the following address: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/124046.html So could you please comment on why an EP240 fuel pump has been shipped when it was an EP378 fuel pump which was listed (and it was an EP378 pump which I wanted). Thanks.

The first response from Global Automotive...

quote Please provide a digital picture of the item you received to quickly forwarded to the correct department.

After sending them my two images from this thread, this is their second response to my emails...

quote We are distributors for AC Delco Mexican Market, and these parts #s do not reflect the AC Delco #s here in the states. The item you purchased is correct for your vehicle application. Please install with confidence.

Seems like a quick brush-off to me. What do you guys think?

I ordered an EP378 ACDelco fuel pump and got something with the number BGV00240 etched on it. I am not satisfied with the response from Global Automotive.

I'll be waiting to hear back from the Brand Protection people at ACDelco before my next move.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-24-2012).]

I cant wait to see what AC Delco says.. this pump is probably junk..

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Seems like a quick brush-off to me. What do you guys think? I ordered an EP378 ACDelco fuel pump and got something with the number BGV00240 etched on it. I'm not satisfied with their response. I'll be waiting to hear back from the Brand Protection people at ACDelco before my next move.

Sounds like they're responding exactly how you thought he would - it's listed in his interchange catalog, thus says it will work just fine. If it were me, I'd continue to push back, simply as it's NOT what you purchased.

Not that it helps you much now, but this is precisely why I buy very little on ebay these days (basically I use it as an absolute last resort if I can't find whatever I'm looking for anywhere else), or anywhere else sight unseen much these days. I'll occasionally order parts from vendors/sponsors on forums that have very good reviews, but even then ONLY if I can talk to a human that is in this country before hand. Sure, I spend more on parts this way, sometimes much more, but it's a worthy tradeoff to me to avoid these kinds of situations.

That might explain why doing a search for BGV00240 yielded results mostly in Spanish.

You gave him a chance, time to start an official paypal dispute. Tell them you paid for an EP378 pump, as was advertised, not an equivalent pump. The seller will have 10 days to respond, he'll likely respond on the 9th day to keep it going as long as possible. Take and keep good detailed photos for the AC Delco people. If Global Automotive wants you to send the pump back, make sure to get a tracking number, or they'll claim they never got it.

I also eagerly await a response from AC Delco. That would be invaluable in the ebay dispute, possibly resulting in legal action against them by AC Delco (although most likely simply a 'cease and desist' letter).

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Seems like a quick brush-off to me. What do you guys think?

Ah, yes ... the old "Mexican Market" ploy. (It may be true, maybe not, but that ploy has been used for decades by a lot of shady operators.) Did you mention to them the plain white (non-ACDelco) box your pump came in?

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-24-2012).]

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ:. Tell them you paid for an EP378 pump, as was advertised, not an equivalent pump.

NO. It's NOT an equivalent pump. It could be argued that it's functionally equivalent, but that's not the same thing. Technically, the Walbro 255 is functionally equivalent to the $25 Airtex pumps sold at the local parts stores in a stock car, but I'd be pretty pissed off if I paid for a Walbro and got an Airtex with the explanation that it's an equivalent.

[This message has been edited by urbex (edited 07-24-2012).]

quote Originally posted by urbex: ...but I'd be pretty pissed off if I paid for a Walbro and got an Airtex with the explanation that it's an equivalent.

That's basically what happened, I just didn't word it properly? How about functionally equivalent, mechanically inferior? Bottom line is he didn't get what he paid for, and what was advertised.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Did you mention to them the plain white (non-ACDelco) box your pump came in?

Marvin, the box has ACDelco graphics on it, not that this actually means anything! (You can see part of the box in my first picture.)

quote Originally posted by Patrick: When the package arrived, the box and installation paperwork had AC Delco printed all over it, but no mention of an actual part number.

Of course the biggest hassle is I'm now kind of in limbo with the '86 GT that I'm working on until this issue is resolved. Fortunately it's not my daily driver. Nevertheless, I'm hoping that ACDelco contacts me sooner rather than later!

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: If Global Automotive wants you to send the pump back, make sure to get a tracking number, or they'll claim they never got it.

Well, there is no way I'm paying to send this pump back to Global Automotive (if that's what they expect) after they've tried to dupe me like this. I've also read feedback on Global Automotive from people who have returned items and then never been reimbursed. I'm not going to be sucked in.

If this pump turns out to be counterfeit, I'd rather ship it to the Brand Protection people at ACDelco if it helps to make a case against this outfit.

This could get interesting.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-25-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Marvin, the box has ACDelco graphics on it, not that this actually means anything! (You can see part of the box in my first picture.)

Thanks for the clarification. I had misread your original post.

After a little more research it is starting to look like you may have received a gray-market product from Mexico.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-24-2012).]

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: That's basically what happened, I just didn't word it properly? How about functionally equivalent, mechanically inferior? Bottom line is he didn't get what he paid for, and what was advertised.

My point being that it would be a mistake to term it equivalent at all. Telling ebay it's equivalent yet different, combined with the seller claiming it's listed as an acceptable interchage would likely result in ebay deciding in the seller's favor.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: After a little more research it is starting to look like you may have received a gray-market product from Mexico.

I guess there are now two issues possibly at play here. First, I didn't receive the pump model listed by the vendor on eBay, and second... what is the quality of "grey-market" products from Mexico? Are these the exact same units as ones intended for the "American" market (with perhaps a limited warranty), or are these completely different units with questionable quality?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-24-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: ... what is the quality of "grey-market" products from Mexico? Are these the same units as ones intended for the "American" market (with perhaps a different warranty), or are these completely different units with different (possibly inferior) quality?

Short answer: It's impossible to know. If it's from an ACDelco (Delphi?) plant located in Mexico, then it's very likely that the Mexican and U.S. parts are internally identical despite the different part numbers. But again, it's impossible to know. That's one of the "beauties" of laser marking; you can easily apply dozens of different part numbers, on the fly, to the same product.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Short answer: It's impossible to know...

If, that's IF these are "genuine" ACDelco pumps originally destined for the Mexican market that Global Automotive are now selling in the States, it should be quite interesting to hear what ACDelco USA says about this situation.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-25-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I'll be waiting to hear back from the Brand Protection people at ACDelco before my next move.

I'm getting a little fed up waiting. I realize that the form I filled out stated it might take up to five business days to hear back from ACDelco, but I was hoping it wouldn't actually take the full five business days. That would mean I could still be waiting until Monday... another four days! Meanwhile, the GT remains sitting up on blocks with the gas tank out.

Just get another one and install it. Worst case you are out ~$50 and you have an extra pump on hand that a buddy could use some day.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: Just get another one and install it. Worst case you are out ~$50 and you have an extra pump on hand that a buddy could use some day.

I have to agree on this point. From what I have seen, I wouldn't trust putting that in my car...so best case scenario is you get your money back. Any way you look at it, you will be buying another one anyway...so just bite the bullet and get your car on the road. If you wait for this to be resolved, you could miss out on driving the car for the rest of the summer.

quote Originally posted by theogre: Who? Ebay makes a Token effort to stop counterfeiting. Ebay makes huge x huge of money on counterfeit items and hide behind current US laws says don't their problem when users post anything. (same law shield Facebook etc in many cases.)

Ebay does NOTHING to stop fraud. Remember when Toddster here on PFF got his "friends at ebay" to remove his negative & neutral feedback?
EDIT: Then he called me a THIEF in his feedback for me, when I received nothing from him. Ebay did NOTHING when I filed a complaint.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 07-27-2012).]

EP378 Delco pump 78.00 at Lordco..I'm sure you would find one even cheaper if you called around....I bought a pump on line once I'll never do it again..................

Good news, I've received an email from an investigator with General Motors Global Security. I responded, and I included a link to this thread.

Here's hoping that something will be done to make all this hassle worthwhile.