New Getrag 282 input shaft bearing/seal/sleeve ( GM part number 14082181 )


Since the input bearing/seal/sleeve is no longer available and will probably never be reproduced I found a way to make a substitute. I want to give credit to someone who posted some time ago. He suggested the possibility of using the input bearing/seal from the later internal slave Getrags. I did some searches looking for that post but I could not find it. If that person is still on the forum he can take the credit.



Although it does not work it sparked an idea. I did some research and luckily found a source for around 500-600 of these NOS Getrag bearing/seals. So I had them send me a few to play with. I looked at this for several weeks and one day had an idea. The steel case is hardened but I found it can still be turned in a lathe. Turning one in my lathe I found I could machine the large diameter. The front washer piece now falls off. The smaller you make the diameter the harder the steel becomes. So now I have a bearing/seal and the large OD is much smaller:



To use this modified bearing/seal in the early 282 requires that one counter bore the hole so this bearing can be pressed in to be flush to the underside face. I could sell this kit and tell everyone that you need to take this to a machine shop and have the hole counter bored. I felt that would be a hassle for many. So: I had an idea. I made a tool to be included in each kit. A brazed carbide cutter on a round steel piece. I made a welding jig to hold the cutter to a very exact dimension. The top flat steel piece controls the depth of cut. You put the tool in the hole and use a ratchet and turn which cuts the counter bore:











You will need to lightly file the top of the hole to debur it.

This modified bearing/seal now needs to be pressed into the aluminum housing bore. To do this correctly one needs a steel piece (included in the kit):






So now we need a sleeve:





This is the flange/sleeve pressed together. It will be welded on the back side. It is made of 304 stainless steel.

This sleeve assembly needs to be screwed on to the aluminum housing. So once again this could be done at a machine shop. To make this a do it yourself kit I designed a drill jig. This bolts to the aluminum housing and you drill the six 3.3 mm holes:



Once all 6 holes are drilled they need to be tapped to 4 x 0.7 mm (remove the jig and slightly counter sink the holes first) So you rotate the jig (using a locating pin I supply with the kit) and tap all six holes:



So you now have a new bearing/seal and stainless steel sleeve:



This project took many many months. My ME friend and I spent many hours doing the Cad drawings and checking dimensions etc. I certainly give a lot of credit to my ME friend Chuck. Without his help I would have never been able to accomplish this. He did the CAD drawings and we spent many hours arguing dimensions and such. It was a fun challenge.

This will be available soon:

http://rodneydickman.com/ca...h=28&products_id=305

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Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

[This message has been edited by Rodney (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Rodney: Since the input bearing/seal/sleeve is no longer available and will probably never be reproduced I found a way to make a substitute. I want to give credit to someone who posted some time ago. He suggested the possibility of using the input bearing/seal from the later internal slave Getrags. I did some searches looking for that post but I could not find it. If that person is still on the forum he can take the credit.

It looks like the steel housing is formed around the "back side" of the bearing. The bearing and seal might be removable from the housing.
It might be possible to turn a new housing, including integral throw out bearing support sleeve, and install the seals, rollers and outer race from the production unit. Such a unit would then simply install via light press fit just like the original.

.

[This message has been edited by Rodney (edited 11-22-2012).]

Great job on devising a solid solution for the input shaft bearing/seal/sleave.

I think what Will was getting at was that the seal and housing may be a formed piece of sheet steel that has been pressed and drawn over a more standard roller bearing. I can only speculate on the construciton, having never held either the early or late units in my hand. If what Will suggests is the case, Making a new seal/beaing case with integral TOB sleeve is possible. You already have several turned pieces in the unit, Will suggests "might" work if the bearing has a seperate race from the seal/retaining lip and there is a sufficient diameter difference from the OD of the bearing race and ID of the input shaft hole. Im sure you looked into it though Rodney.

Looks awesome Rodney! I have been curious how you were going to accomplish this since you first expressed interest. It is a bit more involved than just pressing in a new bearing but I know when the time comes I wil be ordering one. It's only a matter of time till every get tag needs this part replaced. Looks well thought out and the provided tools should make the job fairly straight forward.

Can the old bearing be removed without splitting the case?

.

[This message has been edited by Rodney (edited 11-22-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Rodney: I did something good and someone already tells me I did it wrong.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Pennocks!

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Rodney: I did something good and someone already tells me I did it wrong.

It's a nice piece of engineering. The tools in particular appear to be well thought out and look like they'd be a delight to use.

quote Originally posted by Rodney: No. The case has to be taken apart.

Thats what I figured, its not hard to do at all. Like I said, thanks for the good work and I look forward to using more of these great parts in the future! EDIT Now that I think about it that is a stupid question, of course the case has to be split otherwise there would be an input shaft sticking through there and the different steps would be impossible! DOPE!

I know you have your reasons for the way this was built, and I know It would take much longer for me to find a better solution if at all. Just keep up the good work and we will still buy your products.

I honestly like the idea of the seperate throw out bearing sleeve. Just think if the seal goes in the future you only have to replace the seal not the whole kit. Also if something did happen to the sleeve or something that is a much easier replacement than the whole pressed in unit. Although judging by the looks of that thing I highly doubt any will be breaking/coming apart.

[This message has been edited by thedrue (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by thedrue: Also if something did happen to the sleeve or something that is a much easier replacement than the whole pressed in unit. Although judging by the looks of that thing I highly doubt any will be breaking/coming apart.

Seriously.. In 100 years, there are going to be rusty hulks of fiero with delaminated plastic panels on them, but in the middle of the pile will be brand-new looking Rodney Dickman parts..

That's some beautiful retro-fit engineering there, will be ordering one this winter if they're ready.

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Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

wow rodney ya out done yourself with this one my friend! looks simple, easy to do, bulletproof and almost idiot proof. I love the idea that a machinist doesn't have to be in the loop too that in itself prolly was the hardest part. Now i can order a set of bearings and synchos off mantrans a plus a bearing from you and do the trans myself if i can pick up a little press... if not there are local shops here that said they would press the bearings and such off for me at next to nothing. As for the bad comment if i were you i wouldn't mind it at all man. You aswell as other top shelf vendors are always tweaking products hell look at archie and how many times he changed things for whatever reason comes up. Thank you rodney absolutely can't wait to put one behind my V8 this and the shift cables i ordered completes the list for parts. Bear in mind that list has been going on for almost a decade... Any ideas on pricing for these yet? and a huge thanks to you from all the fiero brothers that call this hallowed ground their internet home

Another great product!

You might want to offer a core charge on the tooling parts. For most people, they would be a one time use and the end user would probably be happy to send them back if it saved them some $$$. Over time it could lessen the number of sets of tooling you have to fabricate, but adds the delay of inspecting the returned tooling to make sure it can be used for another installation.

quote Originally posted by Rodney: I want to give credit to someone who posted some time ago. He suggested the possibility of using the input bearing/seal from the later internal slave Getrags. I did some searches looking for that post but I could not find it. If that person is still on the forum he can take the credit.

That might be me...

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: If you make the seperate throwout bearing sleeve, then you could use the input bearing/seal from the 92-94 HTOB getrags. Same bearing/seal, just doesn't have the throwout bearing sleeve attached to it.

Posted in this thread:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/086950.html

If it was me, then I am just glad to help further the development of fiero parts/projects.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Posted in this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/086950.html If it was me, then I am just glad to help further the development of fiero parts/projects.

Yes. That is the one. I sent this out for R&D and no bearing manufacturer offered much. The ID and OD are non standard. Very hard to reproduce.

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Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

That's a pretty cool design, Rodney. I like how the sleeve is separate from the bearing. So if you ever have to replace the sleeve, you don't have to disassemble the transmission. The coup de grace would be to do the same with the seal. But I imagine that would be problematic.

Just out of curiosity, have you looked into the feasibility of a HTOB retrofit?

quote Originally posted by Will: It looks like the steel housing is formed around the "back side" of the bearing. The bearing and seal might be removable from the housing. It might be possible to turn a new housing, including integral throw out bearing support sleeve, and install the seals, rollers and outer race from the production unit. Such a unit would then simply install via light press fit just like the original.

quote Originally posted by Rodney: I did something good and someone already tells me I did it wrong.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps it's because I have no clue what Will just said (hey, I'm better with computers), but I don't see where he said you did something wrong. In my eyes he just offered an opinion (which is not all too uncommon on a discussion board). But again, I have no clue what he just said. Seriously.

You asked me to clean up this thread so you can discuss this further and I have no problems doing so if only I knew what it is I'm cleaning up. So if anyone else thinks Will's remarks are derogatory, please let me know (preferably through PM so this doesn't end in a flame war) and I will gladly copy this thread and clean it up.

.

[This message has been edited by Rodney (edited 11-22-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Rodney: Then please delete my posts. I emailed you in private hoping to keep this private.

I don't see how deleting other people's post is a private matter between you and me.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but I really don't see anything that needs cleaning up. I truly don't understand your reaction to Will's post nor your reaction to my post. This is the Technical Discussion & Questions section. You obviously offer a fantastic new product, but as I understand it, somebody else just says there might also be an alternative for those who want to put some elbow grease in it. He never said what you are doing is wrong unless I'm misunderstanding. As I understand it, his alternative involves some work (and might not even work at all) and I'm sure there are many people (like me) who will just go for a finished product (like yours) if they need such a part.

So why do you want to delete your post? Seriously, what am I missing? You react like you are being attacked while IMO you are not. Certainly not by me anyway. Me likes the stuff you make. You know I feel we need more people like you making great stuff for our cars. But this is a discussion board and that also includes discussing a (new) product.

I'm guessing by your reaction Will's alternative is not a real alternative and if so, I'm pretty sure we'd rather hear from you or anyone else why not instead of deleting posts and moving on.

quote Originally posted by Rodney: I emailed you in private hoping to keep this private.

Again.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

Well, honestly...like Cliff said, I have no understanding what Will did wrong. I must be missing something too.

Even I have been the victim of Rodney comming on here and having a "chip" attitude. I don't think its good PR, even if its on a
public forum. I've asked / metioned possiblities or questions and get an ass remark. Sorta like, no..forget it, or
don't speak unless you have something valid to say.

Listen, we are all customers and I think as a reference you should be happy or at least "glad" to work with
us, or simply accept our input. If it wasn't for us fiero owners, they would be not business success for your
part. I've purchased over 2500$ in fiero parts from Rodney, and I have no complains at all.

Remember, we may not be all engineers, but there are many that have "20 over" years of experiance in the automotive
industry or a background that some easily understand what should be done, or what can be done.

Rodney, we all know that your in the business to make money, but please listen to your customers requests, or
what ever they have to offer. Not thinking off the bat that we have no compatance, or saying, "are you an engineer"?
If you were an engineer, I don't think you'd need to come on here an ask. I know folks that should be engineers and those
who are shouldn't. I"ve been on this forum for over 6 years, and I will continue to help others from my knowledge.

I've listened many years, and so should you.

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fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. All original.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Please don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps it's because I have no clue what Will just said.

i think what he was suggesting is take the new bearing and remove it from the housing then create another housing to put it in and press the new bearing into place VS having to drill tap and do more than is nessicary.

i dont see anything wrong with what will suggested but you know good ol RD just over engineering stuff so it lasts forever.... RD how do you stay in business with such high quality? if RD had to engineer the ever lasting gobstopper he'd over do it to out last the original :P

Does anyone know what is a common cause for the input shaft sleeve to break off?

quote Originally posted by hdryder: Does anyone know what is a common cause for the input shaft sleeve to break off?

IMO, it is a poor design
take a look at the sleeve, the metal is fairly thin so naturally it is going to eventually break off

so has anyone installed Rodney's part and can give a review?

[This message has been edited by ZaraSpOOk (edited 01-18-2013).]

If ya need a tester let me know . This would be a good excuse to replace the clutch lol

quote Originally posted by ZaraSpOOk: so has anyone installed Rodney's part and can give a review?

I am working on installing one now.