I did bring my car to my mechanic and even he doesn't know what's wrong. Here are the symptoms:

-Sometimes after driving a long way or letting the car sit for a few days, the shifter gets so tight I cannot by any means get it into 1st, sometimes 2nd, and usually reverse.
-If it does find it's way into reverse, it sounds like the clutch grinding slightly, but continually.
-There is no air in the line
-There is nothing in the way of the shift cables (I thought I had at first maybe some wire or something possibly had gotten in the way of the cables, but nothings there)
-My mechanic said he thought it may be a problem with the pressure plate or throw out bearing. The throw out was changed about 2 months ago when I replaced a burned out clutch.
-This only happens when the car is on. If it is off, it will move as it should...which doesn't make any sense to me what so ever.
-And when I say it won't go into gear, I don't mean it's hard to go into gear. It physically will not go into gear.

Does this sound like a clutch problem or a shifter problem? My mech. said I could also try changing the master/slave cylinder to see if that did anything.

Thoughts and suggestions please. Thanks everybody.

I'd bet on Master or Slave cylinder - one or the other or both is most likely leaking! To check the Master, pull back your carpet in front and see if there is fluid there. To check the slave, take off the rod boot and see if there is fluid in the boot - it may be dry outside the boot. It does not have to leak a lot for it to be an problem. I'd lean more toward the slave. It could be that the piston is having to travel too far to engage the clutch. Next time it does it, try pumping the clutch pedal few times before trying to change gears.

Sounds like a hydraulic, slave/bracket, or bent clutch problem to me. You say there is no air in the system, how far does your slave piston move when you prees the pedal ? How far above your brake pedal does the clutch pedal sit at rest? How much slop/play is there in the pedal to banjo ? Is the Banjo facing up ?

Another thing to do when it happens again is turn the car off, then try and put it in gear. If it goes into gear just fine without the engine spinning its NOT a cable/shifter problem.

I would bet its a hydraulic problem too, probably slave. Maybe once it gets real hot like on a long trip the seals wont seal right, idk.

If you buy either a slave or a master you gotta get them from rodney. Same or better price as at a store and quality is second to NONE.

EDIT: another thought, are your brake and clutch pedals more or less at the same height, like within an inch? If not bent clutch pedal

[This message has been edited by Riddick85 (edited 02-05-2013).]

First thing to do is measure the throw on the lever on the trans. Should be around 7/8". Measure it when it operates well and also when it does not operate well. Let us know what you find. You will need to have someone push in the clutch while you hold a scale above the cast steel lever on the trans. Is your clutch pedal about 1" above the brake pedal?

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I have a similar problem starting on my 86 GT with 2.8 4 spd.
Could it also be low trans fluid? I have not checked it yet but could it possibly
allow heat to be generated and the gears/syncros expand/bind?
It works great cold.

Tranny fluid is good. Changed it when I put the new clutch in and have checked it regularly because I thought of that. I am going to try and change out the slave and if that doesn't work then I'll change the master as well. I'll post results to let you guys know.

EDIT: And no the clutch pedal and brake are at the same level. Is that good or bad?

[This message has been edited by ggfoster (edited 02-05-2013).]

I was reading in the archives, I think it was, that a Fiero was really hard to shift, and it turned out to be an electrical problem. The cables were actually doubling as a ground wire, expanding, thus making it hard to move/shift. Might have been the Ogre's cave, I can't remember, but that's another angle to look at. I wish you luck!

quote Originally posted by ggfoster: Tranny fluid is good. Changed it when I put the new clutch in and have checked it regularly because I thought of that. I am going to try and change out the slave and if that doesn't work then I'll change the master as well. I'll post results to let you guys know. EDIT: And no the clutch pedal and brake are at the same level. Is that good or bad?

it's your money and time, but do not swap out master or slave, the first thing you should do is measure how far the rod on the slave moves the transmission lever, should be about an inch

the clutch pedal should be slightly higher than the brake pedal, if it isn't, you have a bent pedal, they are about $40 and easy to swap out

even more important, does the clutch lever (moved by the slave rod) actually turn the shaft? I had the same exact symptoms you describe, everyone told me to bleed the system which I did about 4-5 times because everyone has their secret method that is better than the next guy, everyone told me to get a new master and slave

they were all wrong, complete waste of time and money, there was absolutely nothing wrong with my slave or master

the sleeve on the input bearing to to the tranny had broke, no amount of bleeding, or super dooper master or slave will rectify the problem, if this is the problem you have major work to be done, and no mechanic you bring it to will be able to fix it, only you with the help of people here or a Fiero expert can fix it, not to scare you, but it is the truth

the key to diagnosing this problem is if the hydraulics seem to be working correctly, the slave rod move the correct amount, but the shaft down below moves very little or not at all (rather, this arm appears to be flexing but not rotating the shaft), the reason it is not rotating is because it cannot, the sleeve the TOB rides on is broke and jammed up preventing the TOB from doing its job, and continuing to play with it may break the clutch fork which is an expensive part

job #1: measure how far the slave rod is moving and report back here as Rodney said, doing anything else is likely a waste of time and money

[This message has been edited by ZaraSpOOk (edited 02-05-2013).]

I'll give the measuring a try then in the morning. I don't see how the pedal could be bent. It was just fine before and then it started doing this.

What I still do not understand and this is because of my lack of mechanical knowledge of the system I guess, is why it is just fine when it is off. I can float through the gears fine while off, but as soon as it starts is when it freezes up. Why is this? How are the gears affected when the car is on versus when it is off?

And if it doesn't throw the arm far enough all you need to know is Rodney. Really.

Rodney for the clutch pedal replace is a must anyways, but does the shifter move freely from west to east (left/right) ? And or is it almost impossible to move it north to south as well? If so this sounds like shift and/or selector cable heat distortion and age death, remember the wicked crazy temp fluxes the cables endure in their life time. I had to replace all my shift and selector cables in every getrag I ever owned due to this issue. Mechanics were like its the slave, its the push rod, it this its that in my 1st getrag. Cause I was told by previous owner both cables were new Rodneys. Nope Lie. I ordered the ADJUSTABLE cables from the FieroStore and it shifted like butter after we played with the adjustments a few minutes. No grinding, and no Arnold arms were needed anymore to move the shifter around. I always replace Both cables to be certain in every new manual Fiero grab. Hard to move east west its bad selector, cant move north south its the shift cable. This usually is the issue, as all else failed and your mechanic is scratching his head as mine was when I was 16. FYI I would reinforce the shift cable ends with something stronger as if you dont adjust correctly the cable end will snap right off in you shift assembly at the shifter. Had that happen quite a few times.

[This message has been edited by tntcary (edited 02-06-2013).]

Similiar issues with my 87 GT 5speed. Slave cylinder was the issue. Get Rodney's, the first one I installed was an after market one (before Rodney released his slave) and it lasted only a couple of months. Since then I've had the clutch, throw out bearing bushings etc as well as having the flywheel resurfaced. After 26 years and 140,000 miles stuff needs to be replaced.

[This message has been edited by Old Lar (edited 02-06-2013).]

East/West is absolutely fine. North/South is the problem, but only on the gears I mentioned. 1st always, 2nd sometimes, and reverse sometimes. 3rd, 4th, and 5th are fine albeit harder to get into than they should be. But keep in mind this doesn't happen all of the time either. Example being it wasn't shifting into 1st/2nd and I thought I was going to have to get it towed. I went out there to start it just to get it running because it hadn't been started in about a week and a half. I decided to check it again and it shifted just fine. I drove it over to the mechanic and he said that he didn't even understand what I was talking about because it was working. The next day though it tightened up like I had described which confused the heck out of him just like it did me.

My problem with the sleeve being broke is, to me, if it was broken it would be locked up all of the time. My problem with the slave or master leaking is, again to me, it would be doing it all of the time. But it's not. I don't mean to ridicule anybody, but my frustration level right now is through the roof and not with you guys. It's directed at the two previous owners who abused the living hell out of this car for no reason. "Speed racer" painted it to look "cool" and it's got a 4 cyl. engine it. One of the morons somehow managed to put front calipers on the rear wheels and completely f'ed up the rotors. I need to completely rewire the entire thing because somehow or another there's things like the fuel pump bypassing the fuse box which by the way has more blown fuses and fuses out of place than I know what to do with. Most of the gauges don't work. The wires running into the engine compartment are covered in oil because the car was run for years with a leaking valve cover, something I have since fixed, but I don't know what to do about the wires....and don't even get me started on the wheel alignment, suspension, and front camber.

IF there was commercials for abused Fieros like there are for abused animals, this one would be the damn poster child. Silver lining is that I love the thing and I only paid $500 for it. I apologize, that is my rant for today. I am going to go measure the throw on the trans lever now.

ah, I should have asked IF it was a getrag. Its the Isuzu transmission. I had a 88 Formula with the Isuzu that would sometimes decide it didn't want to shift into 1st and it would sometimes grind going in 2nd or 3rd when I would shift a little fast because I was getting a disengage MOST of the time but sometimes I wouldnt in 1st AT ALL just not quite fully in 2nd and 3rd and east west was butter. I purchased it from a friend who put a new NON adjustable shift cable on the car right before i purchased it. I know for a fact he did, so we were all like WTF. We replaced EVERYTHING in the manual set up and I mean everything. We even forced in a bolt into the back of the shifter arm in engine bay in a last ditch effort to give it that last micron of space it seemed to need to get it to clear the shift and disengage to make the shift. Again it would sometimes shift just fine. Nothing worked. Then we said wth lets order an adjustable cable and see what happens. We installed it and made a few adjustments and it shifted like new everytime. Its worth a try as the cables are not expensive at all. I went thru the same exact thing you are and it really pisses you off. LOL. Hang in there dude. Call up the good ol Fiero Store and order you an adjustable Shift cable $124.99 Part #65616.

Well, I measured the distance on the throw arm and it is moving about an inch and a half. The clutch is very loose and it appears I have completely lost all the gears. Mike (my mechanic) and I decided to take the tranny out have a look at the sleeve some of you suggested may be broken. We determined that even if it isn't the sleeve itself, it is definitely something inside the transmission. So at least it's been eliminated down to that. Now, I just have to wait until he pulls it and let's me know what's wrong exactly. I decided to swap the engine cradle out (because it's cracked apparently) while we were doing this just so everything can get done correctly this one last time and I don't have to worry about it anymore haha. The epic of the car of never ending problems continues! Haha. Thank you for the advice guys and I will make sure to post the exact cause once the tranny's pulled.

quote Originally posted by ggfoster: I don't see how the pedal could be bent. It was just fine before and then it started doing this.

the pedal bends over time, the reason the aluminum ones bend is obvious, some people say the steel ones don't bend, but over time they bend too and eventually they are bent enough that you don't have enough travel

I'm on my second pedal, original was steel, once you get the new pedal and compare it to the old, the bending is obvious, and why it eventually causes system failure is obvious

quote Originally posted by ggfoster: Well, I measured the distance on the throw arm and it is moving about an inch and a half. .

but it sounds like your pedal is fine, and so are your master and slave

quote Originally posted by ggfoster: My problem with the sleeve being broke is, to me, if it was broken it would be locked up all of the time. My problem with the slave or master leaking is, again to me, it would be doing it all of the time. But it's not.

that's exactly how mine worked, with engine running it was nearly impossible to get into 1st or reverse, other gears were more difficult but could be done, with engine off, all shifting was fine

I'm not sure if the Izusu has the sleeved input bearing, the Getrag does and it is a known common problem, hopefully someone with Izusu knowledge will speak up
maybe the syncros?

[This message has been edited by ZaraSpOOk (edited 02-06-2013).]

For those who will see this thread in the future: It turns out it was a problem with the slave cylinder. A rebuilt slave was put on, a brand new master cylinder was put on, and a new pipe from the master to the slave was put on. It works perfectly. Thanks to Don and Darrell Hulse for all the help!! Appreciate it guys!

quote Originally posted by ggfoster: Mike (my mechanic) and I decided to take the tranny out have a look at the sleeve some of you suggested may be broken. We determined that even if it isn't the sleeve itself, it is definitely something inside the transmission. So at least it's been eliminated down to that.

quote Originally posted by ggfoster: For those who will see this thread in the future: It turns out it was a problem with the slave cylinder. A rebuilt slave was put on, a brand new master cylinder was put on, and a new pipe from the master to the slave was put on. It works perfectly. Thanks to Don and Darrell Hulse for all the help!! Appreciate it guys!

So you pulled the tranny only to find out it was the slave after all??

LOTS of unnecessary work involved there...


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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-06-2013).]

No the tranny didn't get pulled. I had gotten a suggestion to go to Don and Darrell first which turned out to be a great suggestion.

Another problem put to bed.
Plus for you for posting the fix.

something everyone should understand is that the slave / master can be toast without leaking fluid .sometimes what happens is that you pump the pedal , the clutch arm moves but instead of pushing out fluid on the clutch pedal downstroke , they suck air in on the upstroke .take apart your old slave and look inside it .you will see pitting on the wall of the sleeve .where the pitting is determines whether it will leak or let in air .either way . the slave is toast .my rule of thumb is , as soon as it gets harder to push the lever in to first gear with the clutch to the floor , it is time to get the car home to avoid a towing charge .i dont even pop the hood any more .