This is the story in Ed's own words on how this vile, loathsome, despicable human being stole $500 from him for Fiero parts.
email From Ed Parks at the Fiero Factory 8/8.02 posted with his permission It was Sept 2000 when we paid $500 for parts Karl Jones posted for sale. By the end of Jan 2001, it was apparent they were never going to arrive. While still able to email him, had many different lies as to when they had been sent, then finally, when they were going to be sent. We also had recieved many posts from others about his "business practices" (which turned out to be that he advertised desireable parts, then took the money and started to junkyard shop for them). He finally disappeared from email, and we then contacted his mother and stepfather with the help of a neighbor of his (very rude woman who stated HER son would not steal but still refused to give out his address). We recieved a very nasty email from Karl about us contacting his mother. Then, no further contact.
We then went to the Postal Authorities (along with 2 other of Karls "customers") and waited another 2 mos for no results. In the meantime, contacted local police and was told (right or wrong), charges would have to be filed in Utah.
Just put everything aside (but Rosy didn't forget the $500 and reminds me everytime I say send a check to "so and so"!!) and kept working until someone recently told me he had surfaced again on Pennocks and the .org list.
So, Dennis, to answer you question, its been just over a year since we gave up. Since we KNOW Karl Jones is a liar and a thief, decided it was time to warn Fiero folks about him.....again. This was after we gave him another chance to refund our $.
His "excellent" memory of events and the Q-4 engine he took to Colorado for Mike to transport to Jeremy is also somewhat suspect.....especially as it was a TDC V6 and turbo, not remotely as advertised!!
Just got another nasty email from him yesterday that is not even worth answering (store computer it is on crashed today, so may not even have it). He's claiming I'm the thief since I would like to have my $$ back as he "remembers" (like the Q4?) sending parts that what would have taken 3 boxes, ALL of which were apparently lost by UPS at the same time. Wonder how many times that happens?
Wallace and Eric, our intention was to "stir the pot", and perhaps have him banished from all lists (particularly this one), as we also suspect the statue of limitations has run out and that is why he is willing to give out Holly's work (Sheriff Dept) phone number. We certainly never expect to see our $$, but sure would like for him to view his Fiero with a few bars between him and it.
Loyde, nice picture....seems to back up his claim he has always used the same email....doesn't it? Of course, his mother refusing to give his new address Jan a year ago also seems to back up his claim that he was there until a month ago...doesn't it.
Dennis and Loyde, feel free to repost. We have already been sued by one thief and liar. He didn't make out very well!!!
Dennis, It doesnt concern you. Yet, you still get involved and pretty much be a sh!t disturber. Let Ed work it out with Karl, and just stay out of it man!
Later, Chris
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09:34 PM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
why does this site attract so many retards who simply don't GET that the purpose of this site is to INFORM people of things that affect thier Fiero related lives...like theives posing as parts suppliers!
You keep posting Dennis. Those of us who don't want to become victims ourselves are behind you and Ed all the way.
No **** .. But let ED and KARL work this out first. If nothing happens then it should go here. I just hate morons who want to down people just because. Stay out of its no ones buisness but Ed's and Karl's right now. If nothing gets resolved between them then yes WE all should know. God damn.....
quote
Originally posted by Toddster: why does this site attract so many retards who simply don't GET that the purpose of this site is to INFORM people of things that affect thier Fiero related lives...like theives posing as parts suppliers!
You keep posting Dennis. Those of us who don't want to become victims ourselves are behind you and Ed all the way.
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09:47 PM
Heretic Member
Posts: 1102 From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by Loki: No **** .. But let ED and KARL work this out first. If nothing happens then it should go here. I just hate morons who want to down people just because. Stay out of its no ones buisness but Ed's and Karl's right now. If nothing gets resolved between them then yes WE all should know. God damn.....
Exactly my thoughts!!!
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09:50 PM
TM_Fiero Member
Posts: 1077 From: Brookville, PA Registered: Jun 2002
Toddster, who are you to be calling other list members retards? Sure the forum is about helping other people out, but to start another thread about the same thing is not needed. I'm not taking a side on this issue because 1) I haven't seen anything that could prove either one right or wrong in either way. 2) Nobody else has stepped up (so far) to say that they have recently bought or tried to buy something from Karl. Not truly making this a "buyer beware" kind of deal. 3) It is something to be worked out between the 2 parties involved. If we can communicate with Karl on the forum, so should Ed. Yes, I don't think this should be on the forum. If that makes me a "retard" so be it. How does it make you look when you can't get your point across without resorting to name calling.
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10:05 PM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
In one thread, some of you come on and ask why some people post certain "dirty laundry" or why they are sticking there nose into something that it shouldn't be in. Then in another thread when one of you are complaining about how "you" yourself got ripped off by someone, some of you come on and say that we should have a way of letting others know about these rip off artists to help avoid it from happening again.
I think these posts informing us of bad people like these are fine. It is the ones where someone get's flamed, roasted, toasted, barbecued, run over, etc., especially after they have opologized days before and others have since asked to let the thread die. These are the ones that you should be trying to stop from happening, not informative ones like this.
WTF!!! Informative????? No one has even givin anyone a chance here just because someone else has a better reputation. Let ED AND KARL FIGURE THIS OT FIRST!! It is of NO ONES concern UNTIL nothin is resolved between THOSE TWO!! For ****s sakes people let this try and get resolved before people go popping off being ****ing morons.
quote
Originally posted by Fiero5: In one thread, some of you come on and ask why some people post certain "dirty laundry" or why they are sticking there nose into something that it shouldn't be in. Then in another thread when one of you are complaining about how "you" yourself got ripped off by someone, some of you come on and say that we should have a way of letting others know about these rip off artists to help avoid it from happening again.
I think these posts informing us of bad people like these are fine. It is the ones where someone get's flamed, roasted, toasted, barbecued, run over, etc., especially after they have opologized days before and others have since asked to let the thread die. These are the ones that you should be trying to stop from happening, not informative ones like this.
Steve
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10:23 PM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
Yes, this is frustrating to read and really has no place here, but then yes it does. People that take money from others and dont deliver the goods deserve to be treated this way.
Just recently I ordered some KYB shocks from the Tire Rack and didnt' receive them in the three days they said. After four days I called them and every day after they called me and then even sent out another set to make sure I recieved what I paid for. That's good business and just plain being decent. They even called to see if I was satisfied with the product.
When I've sold on E-bay I've done the same forwarding tracking numbers and informing my customer that the product was sent. And then also seeing to it that the buyer was satisfied with the product. That's the responsibility of the seller. The buyer merely makes the decision to purchase and then forwards the money.
Normally I stay out of this stuff, personally if someone is going to inform me of a bad business deal I think that's fine. It's information I can observe and use as I please.
However, I feel it necessary to point something out, as I, and many other people as recently as the Osage Beach Show can tell you, Ed Parks is a man of stellar reputation. How many other people would just let random strangers drive their V8 car? I mean sure Ed is selling this package but he also knows there are many who can't afford it at this time and yet he still lets them drive it for pure enjoyment!
So back to my original point, it seems as Ed has tried to work this out with Karl, unsuccessfully. While Dennis may not be directly involved and may feel the need to use some choice words, the fact of the matter is this is a forum about Fieros, and this post is certainly Fiero related, it's up to those who read it to take it for what it's worth.
Jennifer
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11:08 PM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
I tell you the thing that bothers me about these types of situations.
I knew back in Nov 2000 that Karl and Holly had scammed some people on the list and proceeded to ebay with more postings only to get more bad transactions.
Then one month later I saw Steve and Alan get involved with bad transactions, then along the way I found out about Ed's. Don't they all wish today I had posted some tread about Karl Jones.
Now after 7 years of Fiero's and using the internet as my main source of buying and selling, I have finally fell victim to $600 worth of fraud just this year. Not all in one place however. You know, it takes some people 6 weeks just to get $600 to buy like cylinder heads, or whole motors only to never get the thing shipped to them. Don't you think I wish I knew all the bad people out there to deal with so I don't lose any money. That's what friendship in sharing information is all about and using the net to create a web around these people to stop lost income. I agree the net is still to be used like the stock market, dont invest any amount you cant just throw away, but there are those new people that have no idea until its too late.
On the Multiple fiero list's that there is, if I see a tropic I know I dont want to read, DELETE key action, and no second thought. On Pennocks or Planet Fiero, if I see a tropic I have no interest in, AVOID opening it and getting involved.
Try those methods if you are not satisfied with this topic.
Loyde
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11:14 PM
Aug 9th, 2002
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15346 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
I am jumping into this situation for three good reasons: 1. Ed parks is my friend, and when you go against a friend you go against me. Actually it would be nice to see all of us stick up for Ed. How many of you on this forum have been helped by Ed? 2. By bringing this to the attention of all hopefully no one else will be gyped by the same uncivilized lowlife scum that took Ed's money. For those that say let ED and Karl work it out; I can assure you that Karl has no intention at all of making good on the money that he stole. 3. Dishonesty of any sought makes me angry, very angry!! Stealing is wrong and I'll do my part to see that the thieves are removed from the Fiero hobby.
Let's see if I understand this. Several people are saying someone is at least suspect, and for a period dating back at least 2 years, during which time they tried many times to resolve the problem. Heretic & Loki are lambasting everyone to stay out of it; to let them work it out. So, my question to you 2 is this: Evidently 2 years is not long enough to wait before bringing it to the Fiero community's attention, so how long is the proper time to wait? A. 2.5 years? B. 5 years? C. Till it is all forgotten & the $$ is just written off?
Loki, if you posted that you were going to buy computer equipment from a certain source, & I had previously had trouble getting merchandise from that source, but failed to inform you of that problem--wouldn't you think that I had let you down by NOT informing you & others of my dis-satisfaction? I know if it were the other way around & you didn't say anything to me, I'd be kinda po'd.
There have been a couple thousand new members in the last 2 years, myself included, that weren't around for the earlier threads. How are they(I) supposed to find things out? The hard way by maybe losing $$ on non-receipt of merchandise? That would kinda suck don't ya think?? I think Dennis, Fast Fieros & Ed are doing the right thing here. Err on the side of caution.
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12:09 AM
Standard Member
Posts: 4667 From: St. Cloud, MN Registered: Apr 99
Posted by Loki: "WTF!!! Informative????? No one has even givin anyone a chance here just because someone else has a better reputation. Let ED AND KARL FIGURE THIS OT FIRST!! It is of NO ONES concern UNTIL nothin is resolved between THOSE TWO!! For ****s sakes people let this try and get resolved before people go popping off being ****ing morons."
Loki, you have got to be kidding. "No one has even givin anyone a chance here". We haven't given them a chance? Isn't two years enough time? It has been 2 years Loki! What part of that equation are you missing. I myself e-mailed over and over and was ripped off. What else do you think I could have done? Drive half way accross the country and visit her personally to discuss it? Let them figure it out? Ed had tried for two years too. How much longer do you think he needs before he can honestly say he has been ripped off? No ones concern? Other people got ripped off also! Should we just shut up then and let others we know get ripped off too? "For ****s sakes people let this try and get resolved" How much longer do you want to tell Ed, myself and others they need to wait?
Steve
------------------
http://kelleyfamilyfieros.50megs.com
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08:11 AM
stimpy Member
Posts: 8197 From: Salinas, CA Registered: Jan 2000
Not commenting on the situation, but rather on whether or not it belongs on the forum. I think it does belong on the forum - warning other Fiero owners for shady business practices is one of the things a community is all about. On the other hand, threads like this one can get pretty nasty and arguably do not belong in the GFC section. Perhaps this warrants a new section, a "Feedback" section where you can leave your comments about businesses or other Fiero owners you have dealt with.
That said, I do wish to make one single comment on this particular situation: why is it Ed Parks is posting this through Dennis on PFF, while Ed has made it perfectly clear on several occasions he wants nothing to do with PFF (don't ask me why, I'm still trying to figure that one out)...
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08:33 AM
Denny Member
Posts: 1410 From: Leola, PA USA Registered: Apr 2001
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Perhaps this warrants a new section, a "Feedback" section where you can leave your comments about businesses or other Fiero owners you have dealt with.
Great Idea! Got my vote!
------------------ Mid Atlantic Fiero Owners Association New England Fiero Association Keystone State Chapter, P.O.C.I. P.O.C.I.
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09:12 AM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15346 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
Originally posted by stimpy: Welcome to the land of unlimited bandwidth. Could someone maybe start a couple more threads about this?
Maybe we could change this site from Pennocks Fiero Forum to LaGrua's B!tchfest. Yeah, that's it.
I don't believe that you see post after post of me bitching about things. I would like to believe that my positive contribution to this forum is like 99 to 1. The story of the ripoff hit a sensitve spot with me. As car collectors go, the Fiero community is a small one and we all need to be aware of the good and bad things that go on. If it was your $500 that was taken for Fiero parts not received, I'm sure that your voice would be sounding out loud and clear. For a guy like Ed Parks who just squeeks out a modest living, $500 is alot of money. Ed des not participate in this forum but I believe is a member. He's not the most computer literate guy so I took it upon myself to relay his post. If you ever met or dealt with Ed Parks you'll find that people in this hobby don't come any better. I respect your right to comment on any post including mine. If your upbringing and understanding of what is right and what is wrong was like mine was, perhaps you would better understand my motivation for this post.
Originally posted by Loki: WTF!!! Informative????? No one has even givin anyone a chance here just because someone else has a better reputation. Let ED AND KARL FIGURE THIS OT FIRST!! It is of NO ONES concern UNTIL nothin is resolved between THOSE TWO!! For ****s sakes people let this try and get resolved before people go popping off being ****ing morons.
Umm, Let me just bring up some unbiased views here. In both threads, you keep saying that both parties need to get together and work it out. Per Ed's email to Dennis noted above, it appears that Ed tried for many months to resolve it. Ed states emails were ignored. Now that in itself cannot be proved/disproved, But the others on the list and here who claim to also have been ripped off seem to state that after money was sent, soon after emails were ignored. Ed even attempted contact thru other family members. By reading Ed's email above, it appears Ed has accepted the fact he will never see his money nor the parts. Dennis in his original post stated he was warning people on here and the list. Then only when those being accused posted, did the statements of letting them work it out appear.
So I ask you, Why couldn't they work it out before? Karl states that once the items were sent, he heard nothing more. But yet, Ed states Karl sent an Email to him when they attempted to contact him thru family members. We'll probably never know the whole truth, and it is obvious from the posts that Ed has given up trying to get his money back and Karl doesn't want to even check to see if Ed's claims are valid. Karl stated that since it was 2 years ago he has no way of checking into it because he no longer has any shipping info. Yet after he stated that, a few noted that the shipping company (UPS) does keep and retain records. Karl may not find out what happened to the packages, but at least he would be able to show proof of the date sent and the date it arrived and the address it was delivered to. To get the info would probably take 20 minutes of time at the UPS office.
As for does it belong on the Forum? Yes it does. From the few here and the Fiero list, it appears quite a few feel they had a bad deal with Karl. As anyone who has done business will tell you that occasionally you will get a bad customer, But I've never heard of a group of bad customers from two different area's. I am not a business but I have done many sales of parts and such to other Fiero owners. I will agree that not all deals went smooth, But any deals that had complaints were resolved. If I accepted money from someone and sent an item out, then they claim it was not received, I will try to find out why. It has happened and I did locate why they didn't receive it in all but 1 instance. The point is, I investigated first and verified the complaint. From what Karl has stated, in my opinion, that once he sends out an item he is no longer responsible for the transaction. I do not agree with that. There are just too many unsatisfied customers to say this is an isolated case.
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner.
OK, ill do this. Ill continue to belive what I do now. BUT, if im shown valid proof that Karl did in fact rip Ed Parks off, then I will come back here and publicly (sp?) apologize. Im acting out of the fact I know Karl and dont know Ed. And only hearing this through Dennis.
Originally posted by Loki: OK, ill do this. Ill continue to belive what I do now. BUT, if im shown valid proof that Karl did in fact rip Ed Parks off, then I will come back here and publicly (sp?) apologize. Im acting out of the fact I know Karl and dont know Ed. And only hearing this through Dennis.
Okay now be useful and go get Ed's 500 bucks from your friend Karl.
I will now put in my opinion on this as I can straight out say that Ed is a very nice guy to deal with. Why do I know this?
That is where my '87GT is from. I orginally found about this car on the Fiero-list by emailing him. I told him what I wanted and he found a Fiero that was suitable for me. I trusted him to find my a good car that was worth the asking price. So I sent him a down payment in the mail and got my plane tickets to Alabama.
Upon arrival at the airport Ed picked me up in his white 3.4 coupe and took me to the Factory. I got a little tour and of course saw my car for the first time! It was sweet! We went out to eat later that night and had a good time. I stayed at his place that night and than took off the next morning.
Ed and Rosy were very nice people to deal with and in my opinion would not lie about someone taking money from them and not delivering then not delivering a product.
------------------ '87GT 3" Drop, 17" Primax 618s/Nitto450 205/40, 4" Monza exhaust, flowmaster/no cat, "Mr.Shift" kit, custom intake, mudstain decklid scoop, FOCOA 7" wing stands & front spoiler, clear front and rear lights, custom interior, purple neons, Weapon R accessories, all optioned. '91 Beretta GT: Gets through the winters.
This is all that is going to be posted to this thread, will all of Ed's cronies PLEASE tell ED to contact Karl at his email addy. (fierojones@aol.com) so that the two can work it out amongst themselves.
that said have a lovely day.
--Holly
Oh ya, let me also had this, Yes Karl's mother IS a very rude woman.
[This message has been edited by LokiThePurpleGT (edited 08-09-2002).]
I've had enough of this going around in circles stuff, so here goes. I would like for Ed Parks to please email or PM me (fierojones@aol.com). I need Ed to get me some information so i can contact the postal company and see what they say, then HE AND I will go from there.
I won't participate in this thread anymore, as it has gone nowhere but to cause an extensive waste of Cliff's bandwidth. That, and no-one actually seems to be reading anything, just jumping on the bandwagon. Any other questions PM or email me as listed above.
--Karl
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10:43 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
To any and all who took offense at my "retards" comment I apologize sincerely.
My only defense is that I tend to type faster than I think. I am Sorry.
Having said that, Karl, nothing is going in circles here. your attenpt to make this thread go away by claiming it to be a "Private matter" without so much as a simple explanation of your behavior is indefensible.
Regarding Oreif's post: Here is how he, and a lot of others do business. Upon on receipt of payment, he notifies the customer that it has arrived, and says when it will be shipped.
He then contacts the customer that it HAS been shipped, how it has been shipped & about when to expect it.
Within a few days, he again contacts the customer & asks if it has been received ok.
I know because I recently bought door tabs & a horn button from him with absolutly no problems.
When I mail a money order, I scan the filled out money order or at least the receipt of it, & send it to the seller letting them know to expect it, & that I'm serious about the deal. THIS is the way to do business!!
I have on occasions sent members cash because I could not get to the post office during working hours, & have NEVER had any problems at all. 99.9% of the members here I would trust. The very first thing I bought from this forum was a qtr pnl from Wolfhound and I had been a member for a very short time.(less than 60 days). He shipped it before he even received payment, it arrived just as he had described it, & I knew then that this place was a dang close knit bunch, with lots of integrity. A person's word should be their bond, & here it usually is. Don
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11:59 AM
johnt671 Member
Posts: 2271 From: sugarloaf pa usa Registered: Feb 2001
I posted a thread in OT, looking for Wolfhound a few days ago. It fell to pg 2 without reply & my email was returned as undeliverable due to high traffic in his box. No reply to my pm either. His website has changed formats, but I didn't see any recent activity by him, so maybe he is on vacation or something. Don
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05:34 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
HMMMMM. Guilty until proven innocent. nice concept for the 1800's. we are in the 21st centry aren't we. let the law handle it. I thought that we banned public lynching. I don't think they will get far on $500 it wouldn't even get them to Mexico. Dude chill out... when you buy stuff online your bound to lose money. get something you did not expect. as advertised on tv we all heard of that its never what they advertise. best thing to do is e-mail alot of x's and ask alot of ?'s. i used to manage a retail store once. every store out of thousands loses 5 to $600 bucks every 3 months due to shoplifting its a part of life. you live and learn. just be glad you didn't buy enron or worldcom stock. those people lost their life savings.
[This message has been edited by atarian (edited 08-10-2002).]
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05:39 AM
atarian Member
Posts: 970 From: Spring, Tx. USA Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If your upbringing and understanding of what is right and what is wrong was like mine was, perhaps you would better understand my motivation for this post.
My only posted opinion on this matter is that I do not feel it warrants multiple threads. That being said, I would like to add my viewpoint based on my "upbringing and understanding what is right", which apparently you do not feel meet your standards.
My viewpoint is that, while it does cause concern that someone would defraud another within this rather intimate group of enthusiasts, this crusade has taken on comical proportions. If someone were to take $500 from me, I would initially do everything in my power to address it from a legal standpoint. Since 5 years have gone by without any prosecution, that option apparently has not panned out.
At this point , I think it would be best to stop the ranting and raving over a realtively small amount of money. Think about it. If Ed were to collect all the change he found in parts cars he bought in the past 5 years, $500 would be easy. Maybe you can help him out, too, Dennis. I know I'd send a buck so y'all would shut up about it.
Ed,face it, the money isn't coming back. Rather then chase around cyberworld like the newspaper boy from the eighties classic movie "Better Off Dead" shouting "I want my three dollars!", recover the loss by continuing to provide excellent customer service, fine product at competitive prices, and enjoy a reputation of being a class act. And if you ever see Karl in person, punch him in the neck.
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06:12 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
