I'm still doing my research into building a mid-engined drag race Fiero. I have been checking out the results of some of your efforts but want more info!!! Please brag about your machine's great performance here! Also, what's the fastest et/mph ever documented for a Fiero, and what was the car's powertrain setup? What are you guys running, how do you like it, and what do you need. Anyone ever pull the front wheels ??? Benchracers you're welcome too !!!

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http://phitown.com

An Archie V8 car (auto with slicks, not street driven) ran a 10.3.

I know of several 11-sec street-driven Fiero owners on this forum, but they're all pretty quiet.

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

My best time is a 16.55 @ 83 mph. I launch at 3000 and shift at 5000 car is really consistent even though it is a 4 speed. I have stock size predator GTS tires launches awsome. I have pics but no scanner.

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Stock 85 GT Bracket Racer
My record so far is 1W 1L
Fastest time 16.54

14.9 crappy launch, bad r/t shifting at 5500, oh ya crappy tires none the less.. would shake when I hit 80.

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-KC

1988 Formula, 3.4 modified 5spd
75 NX (Nitrous) 100% polly

[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 09-20-2002).]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but the Fiero is not a good choice for a 'fast' 1/4 mile car, no matter what mid-engine configuration. Reason: No aftermarket super duty transmissions that have been proven, no super duty CV Joints available off shelf that are direct replacements (even if you can fabricate better parts to work, trans is still an issue). Limited available final drive ratio of transmission, not very well suited for 1/4 mile.

1/4 mile times on Fiero's is just one single reference point of the overall performance, as some form of measurement. The overall performance numbers of what it will do under all circumstances is where the Fiero stands proud.

Mine has turned a 12.2 1/4 mile @ 118 mph and the top end mph of the car is approx. 179 mph. That's with a 3.61 final drive ration, which clearly tells you that it's screaming for a higher numerical final drive ration to turn faster 1/4's.

Bottom line is that 1/4 mile isn't everything. If all you care about is 1/4 mile performance, want to go below 11's, a car similar to the Mustang, is a better choice due to high performance part availability.

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Click to Listen!

Anybody remember the Binford Fiero? It's been a couple years since the last time I saw it. Basically it was/is a Fiero with a tweaked V8... and all of the bodywork aft of the back window removed. The car looks really odd, but I remember the owner claiming a few runs in the high 9's.

I have to agree with California Kid. Although draggin the 1/4 miles shows some speed, I believe that Autocross shows the true performance of your vechicle.

Going straight to me is no fun and doesn't prove too much. Seeing how you handle the cones is what I want to see.

Just an opinion!

Well said Cali kid!

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1988GT T-Tops, 5spd, everything but power seat

If you get a hard on when you gun it, then its fast enough for me But yeah, not a 1/4 car, it can be respectable, but never something out of the ordinary. Unless you move the engine to the front, then its not really not a fiero is it.

Hey Cali Kid, whats the weight distribution of your car?

Hey I hit 300

[This message has been edited by scrotum_pat (edited 09-20-2002).]

quote Originally posted by scrotum_pat: [B]Hey Cali Kid, whats the weight distribution of your car?

Car was weighed and showed 55% of weight on rear tires and 45% up front, ideal for Road Course Racing. Rear Weight without driver was biased a little, +100 lbs to right right rear tire, and pretty much equaled out with me sitting in car.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Anybody remember the Binford Fiero?

Silver GT
1.8 60', 15.2 1/4, 6.4 0-60
K+N, Holley scoop, Splitfires and a 4 speed baby!

[This message has been edited by banditbalz (edited 09-20-2002).]

quote Originally posted by California Kid: [QUOTE]Originally posted by scrotum_pat: [B]Hey Cali Kid, whats the weight distribution of your car?

Car was weighed and showed 55% of weight on rear tires and 45% up front, ideal for Road Course Racing. Rear Weight without driver was biased a little, +100 lbs to right right rear tire, and pretty much equaled out with me sitting in car.

[/QUOTE]

wow thats really good. Howd you get that, did you just move the battery up front, or ad a little weight to the front? When I do my swap I want to get as close to 50/50 as I can. Also, how does your tranny hold up? Ill have the 3 speed and I want around 420 hp. Just looking for ideas for a sstronger tranny for future use. Cheers, Pat

Oh yeah, whats the deal with the open Fiero? Motor, et stuff like that.

2.8 - best run being 14.501, pullin 1.8 60'. Runnin auto tranny with B&M street/strip shift kit

LowKey... 14.9 is your best?? Ouch. I thought u'd be turning 13s with that 3.4.

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18 Year Old Fierophile.
--1986 GT Daily Driver, NX 50 Shot, Borla exhaust, ported manifolds, and a few other goodies
--1984 SE 4.9, IMSA spoiler, Duel exhuast, GT rear bumper, Konis, drop spindles, Rear adjustable perch, Poly total kit, Poly cradle bushings, Big front bar, Added rear bar, 11.25" brakes on all corners w/SS hoses, Fancy wheels wrapped w/soft rubber, and much much more.

Agreed if you want a drag car buy an F-body, or if you must..... a mustang LOL. Some of the 4 cylinder ricers do good too, but I am not a big fan of them

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LS1 in and running :)

http://ls1swap.tripod.com/

Here is a mid engine drag car.

Thanks for the feedback - more, more, more!!! I understand your points about the Fiero not being the best choice for a dragracer, but I have some reasons for considering it. It has some advantages for building a street-legal drag racer. Never, never, a Mustang!!! I am partial to GM and Honda, and definitely not into Fords (don't hate 'em - just don't want 'em).

Anyway, I have two other vehicles that I could use, one of which is an F-body. The problem with that one is weight. F-bodies are pretty heavy cars. Getting weight off of them gets very expensive after the first three to five hundred pounds. Building more motor to move the heavy car is just as expensive, if not more; not counting the extra parts a heavy car goes through (breaks) .

Why even consider a Fiero? 1) Because they are relatively lightweight to start, and there are ways to eliminate weight pretty inexpensively. 2) With the motor being right over the drive wheels, traction (hook up) is not an issue. Front-engine/rear drive cars work really well - IF - they have relatively sophisticated, and dedicated, suspension systems to transfer the weight to the drive wheels. The drawback is rotten handling.

When I said drag car I didn't mean that handling is not important. I actually favor Pro Touring cars, or G-machines, as opposed to dedicated straight-line vehicles, like Pro Street cars. I would like to go to the dragstrip one day, lay down impressive numbers, and back it up with a trip to a road course, with more impressive numbers! More, more, more, keep it coming!

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http://phitown.com

quote Originally posted by scrotum_pat: wow thats really good. Howd you get that, did you just move the battery up front, or ad a little weight to the front? When I do my swap I want to get as close to 50/50 as I can. Also, how does your tranny hold up?

Battery relocated to left side of engine compartment, 4 Core Radiator up front, looks like stock. After 130,000 on trans (30,000 with V8) second gears decided to shed all it teeth. Other particulars below:

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: 2.8 - best run being 14.501, pullin 1.8 60'. Runnin auto tranny with B&M street/strip shift kit LowKey... 14.9 is your best?? Ouch. I thought u'd be turning 13s with that 3.4.

13's maybe if I went through the whole motor well maybe if the track wasn't so damn sticky too and I knew how to drive. The car feels bogged down a bunch when I went last time and I get all tense at the light if it was to hit 13.. it might be 13.99 but thats pushing it! I have a feeling I could hit low 14's at most.

my mod's aren't to big.. just manifolds, plenum, tb and power pulley.

[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 09-20-2002).]

quote Originally posted by California Kid: If all you care about is 1/4 mile performance, want to go below 11's, a car similar to the Mustang, is a better choice due to high performance part availability.

And whats the challenge in that? There's plenty of proven combinations to get you in the 11's with a Mudstain along with the other dime a dozen mainstream cars. I'll do it in my Fiero thank you

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No motor - Soon to be a 383 V8
2.5" Drop
11" Brakes
17" Revolutions
RCC Coilover Suspension
New web site! www.dirtyratracing.org

quote Originally posted by chester: And whats the challenge in that? There's plenty of proven combinations to get you in the 11's with a Mudstain along with the other dime a dozen mainstream cars. I'll do it in my Fiero thank you

Looking forward to your future postings!

I guess if I was going to make a drag fiero, It'd be stretched with a longitudinal tranny and a blown V8. Prolly front and rear tube frame. I guess by that time it wouldn't quite be a fiero, more just body panels. That my $.02

I must disagree with those that say the Fiero isn't a good drag car. Now, I must agree that once you start getting insane with the HP and more tire is needed, the Fiero setup isn't practical, but for a 11-13 sec car, the Fiero is ideal. Its ALMOST as good as AWD. I get better times with less HP then other cars( for example, Supras). With the right setup you can have a dependable race car that can be driven home. My best so far is 13.7 on a STOCK SC3800 motor. With the pulley swap I should be in the low 13's and even high twelves. With a few more mods( rockers, cam, intercooler) I should have a high 11 sec car.
However, If you want to get into the tens, then things start to change. You will need an auto almost definitely. A built up V8 also. I here most people with Mid Engined Fiero Drag cars use a Olds Tornado tranny. I think its a 1970's ish Tornado. Anyway, it allows the V8 to sit front to back instead of side to side. There was one in a Hot Rod mag a few years back, it was on t he cover. It had a Big Block in it and the Olds tranny and the nose was straight up in the air!
NOW, if you really want to go fast, look into putting the motor UP FRONT! Yes it will work, there are a number of them running around. Look at this pic.

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" I LOVE the SWEET sound of an EATON blower working behind my left shoulder!"
Purple 1988 GT
Supercharged 3800 Series II V6

Best ET(stock)-13.71@99.06mph

The front wheel drive late 70's/early 80's Olds Tornado and Buick Riveria tranny swap will allow V8 to be mounted longitudally. You have to remove the trunk, but it's a relatively easy swap that is quite excellent for drag racing. Here is a pic of one with a Pontiac 455 fully built. Bet that sucker moves. Think of the torque...

Personally I am happy with 16.5's out of my car. I can hit them every time unless I screw up my shifting makes it easy to dial in the car and win races. BTW i beat a 15 sec firebird so there!

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Stock 85 GT Bracket Racer
My record so far is 1W 1L
Fastest time 16.54

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Here is a mid engine drag car.

That had to hurt coming down.

quote Originally posted by FieroGT87: That had to hurt coming down.

That car would carry the front tires like that or a little lower for the entire quarter mile. They even had a window in the floor so he could see where he was going, after finish line he would slowly back off the gas and ease it down.

Wouldn't racing like that through the whole 1/4 kind of defeat the purpose of any aerodynamics...? just a thought...

You could always take out the trunk, spend, oh, a hundred grand and put the w-16 out of a Bugatti in the fiero. May get into the 9's then... use either the toranado or porsche tranny... or the bugatti trany, 7 spds of paddle shifting power... MMMMMMM, that sounds tasty... if only i had the spare cash laying around...

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Chris Stricker
85 Metallic Copper 3.4L Finale

When I was drag racing motorcycles we always built and raced bikes with no training wheels (wheelie bars). Part of the thrill of the race for my buddies and I was to get the bike out of the gate without going up in smoke, or pulling the front wheel too high (worst case scenario would be ending up on your back with a 400 pound bike on top of you!). The secret was in the clutch. The guy with the most heart and best feel for that delicate balance, via the clutch lever, was usually the winner. A couple of us were good enough to pull 60ft times almost as fast as some of the guys with bars. One of my friends is still racing motorcycles, and I think his best 60ft time, on a short wheelbase lowered sportbike (no training wheels), to date is in the 1.40's!

Anyway, I was thinking about this method for a Fiero on the drag strip, but the problem would be replacing clutches. One the bikes they last for a long time because the bike is so light - plus it's as simple as removing a cover on the side of the engine. I would think that sliding the clutch (when necessary) on a car would cause a lot of wear. On the other hand, I don't plan on making 50 passes a night, seven days a week either. The limited slip VW tranny sounds like the best choice for tranverse. I have heard good and bad about the Tornado tranny - as far as how much you can really abuse it.

The trunk would be removed anyway and maybe the rear inner fenderwell/strut towers. The car would get a full 12pt cage, and the rear strut bars (down tubes) of the cage would have the suspension strut mounts on them and extend to the rear of the frame rail. This would remove a lot of weight (relatively easily) from the rear end, make it super rigid, and more service friendly in the engine compartment. The front would get a similar treatment with the forward roll cage struts extending to the edge of the front frame rails and eliminating some metal there too. I would like to end up with a 50/50% weight bias for, like I said, good handling too. Ever picked up a Fiero door? I did today and it has me thinking about making a full fiberglass door! That would be worth at least fifty pounds. The interior would probably be mostly fiberglass and carbon fiber panels, with a touch of pleather upholstery.

How about supercars like McLaren F1's, Ferraris, Lambos, and 911's - what are the quickest known quarter mile times (stock or modded).

- edited for forgotten facts, typos, and nonfunctional url link

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http://phitown.com

[This message has been edited by perkidelic (edited 09-21-2002).]

[This message has been edited by perkidelic (edited 09-21-2002).]

If you take the door skin off the door, you'll see why they're so friggin' heavy! I just recently stripped all the weight I could of an coupe that's being converted into a dedicated race vehicle. The door has a reinforcement bar inside it for crash safety. We gutted the doors (of the window regulators, glass, etc.) and cut out the crash bars, and now the doors are extremely light. The door springs actually fling the door around now like nobody's business!

You may want to look into just stripping the entire door, leaving the stock hinge, latch, and inner panel (as well as door skin attach points) intact. We estimate that with plastic windows, gutted mechanisms, and no crash bar, we'll lose about 30 pounds per door. The crash bar alone weighed about 15-18 pounds...hard to say, as the bathroom scale we used wasn't all that accurate.

As far as using the Olds Toronado transmission...sure, they can take a ton of power, but at what cost of weight? That transmission is easily at least twice the weight of our transmission. I know the Fiero auto isn't the best, but what about one out of another GM FWD...cadillac or GTP trans maybe? If you want to go manual, I wouldn't worry about breaking the transmission...the Fiero transmissions have proven to be EXTREMELY overbuilt, lasting through massive abuse with impressive longevity.

Just my .02 bucks.

Bryce
88 GT

quote Originally posted by Nashco: If you want to go manual, I wouldn't worry about breaking the transmission...the Fiero transmissions have proven to be EXTREMELY overbuilt, lasting through massive abuse with impressive longevity [/B]

I'm sorry but I do not think that a fiero tranny will hold the kind of power he is talking about. Now this is just my opinion, but I do know that there are a few companies that make any type of gear that you may need for any tranny. You just call them up, tell them what you have, you even tell them the gear ratios for each gear, so you do have the option of changing things around like the running gear, give them a stupid amount of money because yes, this will cost a lot, and install. Now the only thing you have to worry about is the tranny case itself. If your lucky, the case will last about two, or three races before it gives up hope, and needs to be replaced. Don't forget all of the cars that they raced back in the mid 80's, the tranny case was not the same as the one in our cars, they were made of a different material to handle the stress of all out raceing, and even then they had problems with the transmition selfdestructing.

Think of the extra weight as a rear wing that's functional at launch. It helps solve the "traction limited" condition.

You need a proven "bullet proof" trans for these type launches, along with fatter axles, cvjoints, and bearings.

The thm425/325 do that.

quote Originally posted by Nashco: If you take the door skin off the door, you'll see why they're so friggin' heavy!...You may want to look into just stripping the entire door...The crash bar alone weighed about 15-18 pounds...hard to say, as the bathroom scale we used wasn't all that accurate. Just my .02 bucks. Bryce 88 GT

Wow, I had this whole post ready but I had clicked "edit" instead of "reply with quote" - have to do it all over now

Thanks Bryce, I remember that crash beam. Someone bumped the door on one of my Fieros once, and when I got the replacement door I decided to paint the skin off the door. Big sucker! I will try this first, and may be satisfied with it, unless I decide to try a carbon fiber door - for the beauty of it!

Thanks guys for all the input on trannies too. I was thinking it was reliability, but now that you mention it I do remember that it is a heavy sucker! Have to look into it more, because weight is my enemy! I am kind of leaning towards one of the transverse trannies that the sport compact racers use, cuz they put upwards of 800-1000hp on them - all manuals, I think. They even have a longitudinal race tranny - I'll try to find a pic of it.

opm2000 - what the heck are you building?!?!?

oh10fiero - we're practically neighbors! Have you ever met Kameo Kid? We usually hang out at the Chili's cruise (Southern Park Mall) on saturdays. I think Kid is out of town this week, but if the weather straightens out the wifey and I might go tonight.

Again, thanks a million and more, more, more!!!

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http://phitown.com

If you want to run longitudinal, then I would say your BEST bet is to go with a Porsche transaxle. The G50 is a really strong trans (used in newer porsches), and the older 930 has proven to be a monster as well. They will take 400 hp at the track all day long and laugh about it. I haven't looked into drag racing with the trans, but I'm willing to bet that with a built 930 or G50, 700 hp reliably put to the ground isn't out of the question. The only problem is that you have to modify the trans (flip ring and pinion, flip tranny upside down and redrill some areas for fluid flow, depends on the trans) to use it as a mid-engine transmission.

Here are a few examples of good porsche trannies on ebay Here - Here - And Here

The porsche tranny is built for major horsepower as well as prolonged abuse at the track quite often, as the porsche guys love to go racing (and do quite well). This means there's some extremely tough transmissions out there, because the market is there for the tranny builders. Of course, with porsche performance you PAY for it, but you've got to pay to play with the big dogs. Here's a few more links: Rennsport - Windrush Evolutions (Check out windrush's custom tranny parts...good stuff!)

Here's a company that makes engine adapters, they've already got the kit you will choose, I'm sure. Their stuff is top of the line quality, as well as their service: Kennedy Engineered

Got to go!

Bryce
88 GT
*typo*

[This message has been edited by Nashco (edited 09-21-2002).]

The Hemi-Under Glass was NOT a Drag car it was an Exhibition Car and I have seen it at drag strips and it never had another car race it when I seen it. As far as cars with engines in rear being slow I belive most TOP FUEL Drivers would dissagree (300+ mph runs in less than 5 sec.) -- alf

McLaren F1 is a 10.3sec car STOCK.

Mercedes' CLK-GTR is a *9.4sec* car, also 'stock'. (with a 600hp V12 ) http://www.supercars.net/garages/Cam1/35v2.html

look here: some site did an informal test, the TOP 4 cars are all mid-engined: http://www.car-videos.com/performance/quarter_mile.asp

The challenge of launching a *really* built mid-engine drag racer with slicks, getting it juuuust right, to achive 100% weight transfer, really appeals to me. Getting the wheels to lift, just barely, stand the whole car on the rear wheels, withought over-doing it, with NO training wheels )

Because of the low-centre of gravity, and inherent light-weight and the 'stick' of the tyres (static weight to stick, that's a myth btw, static weight is bad, it's all about dynamic transfer), this is actually a VERY hard launch, harder than a front-engine rwd car by far.

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

My autocross car is currently down to 1716 pounds total weight, with full gas tank. (tank has been modified to 7 gallon capacity)

The engine is a from a Cosworth Vega, 2 litre, twin-cam 16-valve, with Weber carbs, 12.5 compression, competition exhaust system, puts out aproximately 200 HP.

I am just now getting it into running shape, so I am not sure what it would do at the strip yet. Weight distribution is currently 41/59 percent front/rear.

It has the '84 economy ratio 4-speed, but seems to have amazingly quick and easy launches off the line. I would guess it should easily run in the 12s. It doesn't seem to have any tendancy to lift the front wheels drastically yet.

I chose the 3.32 final drive 4-speed to get the best ratio for second gear at autocrosses, but would think the 4.10 ratio 4-speed would show better strip times.

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Gerald Storvik

http://www.8shark.com/

quote Originally posted by perkidelic: opm2000 - what the heck are you building?!?!? oh10fiero - we're practically neighbors! Have you ever met Kameo Kid? We usually hang out at the Chili's cruise (Southern Park Mall) on saturdays. I think Kid is out of town this week, but if the weather straightens out the wifey and I might go tonight. Again, thanks a million and more, more, more!!!

If Kameo Kid is the guy I am thinking about, black 88, lots of custom work, well maintaind car, with neon lights, lots of chrome, and a unique ram air scoop, right? If it is, I meet him at one of those shows and told him about the forum a while back, he was planning on doing an engine swap, or thinking about it more or less, and I told him this was a great source of info. I haven't been around much on Saturdays so I have not talked to him in a while. But I was there tonight and meet someone in a black 88 on NOS, told him of the forum and sounded like he would check us out to see what we are about. Hope he joins, he had a great set up, with a lot of good ideas, and really had done his home work on the NOS set up.

[This message has been edited by OH10fiero (edited 09-21-2002).]

Perkidelic wrote:
>>opm2000 - what the heck are you building?!?!?<<

That's the rearend view of an LT1 mated to a THM325 trans, with the bigger axles & bearings. The tubular steel replaces everything aft of the firewall. This is in the down & dirty fabrication phase, but everything fits, so far.

This goes into a Diablo body, but the same assembly will fit nicely into a stock Fiero if you are willing to loose most of the trunk.