Well, at least demoted, if not fired. Heard this from our club historian Monday night. Ron T. was working with Pontiac in an attempt to get the 1990 prototype to more shows. Apparently the person who "authorized" the showing of the car in Kentucky has been "reassigned."

He was told very clearly that there was ZERO CHANCE of the car making any more public appearances in the near future. Pontiac did not say "never" but suggested not holding our breath for oh, say, the next 10+ years or so.

Pontiac is concerned about the "bad feelings" such a car would bring back amongst both the public, and the GM workers.

Hartz

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'84 SC 5.7L V8
'85 SE 3.1L V6 Turbo
Hartz's Toys

Jesus, can these GM/Pontiac be any *more* clueless?

We *want* the '90!!! Damn them!!

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Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com
1988 Red Fiero Formula
- 1st Place - Stock Coupe - FOCOSEVA 2000
- 3rd Place - Stock Formula - FOCOA Nat'l 2001
- Class Winner - 1982 to Present - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2001
- Class Winner - Fiero: All Years - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2002

If tahts the case, then I probably will never buy another pontiac again, until they release another fiero. (actually thats the case now!).

How about a letter writing campaign to show them just how many Pontiac enthusiasts WANT to see this car! There's strength in numbers, and by God we've got the numbers. Perhaps anyone who has a Fiero and another Pontiac can include pics to let them know we're Pontiac enthusiasts, not just Fiero enthusiasts. That means we are potential customers, and good will towards customers is just good business.

It may be a long shot, but it's worth trying.

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--------------Forever In My Heart----------------
Jack Daniel Miller --- Dec. 29, 1925 - Oct. 14, 2002
Ruby Cantrell Miller - Jan. 20, 1932 - Aug. 31, 2002
It won't rain all the time. The Sky won't fall forever,
And tho' the night seems long, Your tears won't fall forever.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-30-2002).]

Guys - I think this is part of Pontiac's reasoning on this! They know there are at least three very strong, vocal groups about these little cars:

1) Fiero loyalists like ourselves who like the cars and are ticked that Pontiac discontinued them. This brings bad vibes against Pontiac.

2) Members of the general public who think of the word "Fire" when they hear the word "Fiero." You KNOW there are those folks out there regardless of the truth. This can only bring negative publicity to the majority of Pontiac's target audience.

3) GM employees who are ticked at GM for closing the Fiero plant. Remember the arrangement between the employees at the plant and GM was quite revolutionary at the time. Very Saturn-esque. There were quite a few bitter employees when it was all said and done. More bad feelings and publicity for Pontiac.

Given this, I am sure Pontiac would just prefer to not show the car and hope all the fuss goes away. As I see it there's no good upside for Pontiac in this one. Any major protests or letter writing campaigns, or what not are likely only to make the situation worse - not better.

Hartz

Curse them! I can't believe it. I was hoping to eventually see it in person. It makes me sick. They get it right in 88, and kill it.

I don't care what they call it but they need something as fun as the Fiero. They would have my money so fast I would light my check book on fire from the speed of my pen! GM management has no idea what performance buyers want! All they know about is how to make dull, underpowered, boring cars that do nothing but pad their already too high salaries. Screw them.

maybe we should be writing to saturn suggesting they build a plastic-bodied, space-framed, sporty, mid-engine 2 seater. they're already doing 2 out of the four. if the fiero was profitable every year as some have said, i think that would make a compelling argument.

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'84 2m4 se, a work in progress

I think that Hartz said it well. I completely agree with him. As long as even groups like us seeing the car say wow! and damn Pontiac for killing the car in the same breath we will never see that car at a show again. IOW, when Pontiac shows the car they are actually less likely to sell another new Pontiac.

quote Originally posted by lurker: maybe we should be writing to [b]saturn suggesting they build a plastic-bodied, space-framed, sporty, mid-engine 2 seater. they're already doing 2 out of the four. if the fiero was profitable every yearas some have said, i think that would make a compelling argument. [/B]

Profitable and Saturn in the same sentance? Nahhhh....

How in the heck GM shot at something and hit Olds instead of Saturn I'll never know...

Hartz

quote Originally posted by lurker: maybe we should be writing to [b]saturn suggesting they build a plastic-bodied, space-framed, sporty, mid-engine 2 seater. they're already doing 2 out of the four. if the fiero was profitable every year as some have said, i think that would make a compelling argument. [/B]

realistic thats not a bad idea, we could give them the layout of the tubeframe (probably exactly like the fiero or customtube frames that are used for kits, I like the fact i can put any kit on a fiero), and same layout of engine compartment, suspensions & bodywork can be of their choosing and compliment their saturns. I'm certain we've got enough engineers on these forums to design the perfect midengine car

My main concern is that there was the mention that the car was dismantled and "crated" so that the car could not be seen in the public anyways. It is to my understanding also that the car was retained to the private vault for the purpose of engineering review and not as a GM publicity car. I think we should count our blessings that this car did not meet the crusher as did dozens of Fieros that were in the vault that have been destroyed in very recent years.

I feel sorry for the GM (Remain nameless)person involved. I think he grabbed that car knowing that it is something special. We will continue on with the subject until I have solid proof that the car is gone.

I find GM's view on the subject pathetic.

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Fred Bartemeyer
Chairman Heartland Fieros
http://www.heartlandfieros.com
86 GT 4spd 26k miles
87 GT 5spd. Blue 37k miles
88 Silver T-Top Formula 265,000 miles
87 GT 5 spd Annette's Sunshine Driver
88 GT 5 spd Annette's Daily Driver

Understandable, but again it shows how GM handles these types of issues, by ignoring them and hoping they go away. I wonder if GM ever thinks about how much good (free) publicity Fiero enthusiast have provided to them in dispelling the myths that surrounds this car.
I have a feeling GMs panties are going to be in a big bunch when several hundred Fiero enthusiast show up next summer (and hopefully the media) to celebrate a car they wish would just go away.

[This message has been edited by ChopTop (edited 10-30-2002).]

This is the kinda crap I can't stand about GM. They were going to kill the Corvette too, did you know that??!!??!! Several big wigs at GM went over Management heads to buil the first prototype to prove that it could be done. Man they can make some really dumb decisions.

"bad feelings" umm sure let GM think that excuses sure do hit the fan like crap. Half the idiots that think all fieros catch on fire would/might think this, but many of us have informed people and have gotten people to like fieros.

It's amazing everyone says my car sucks, but when I drive by its quite awkward when all of them turn or keep watching me drive by or even wave

I would love to see the 90 prototype and get a few pics of it. What's it going to hurt? its already been discontinued. I swear a majority of car people will understand the uniqueness of their cars and the fiero if they are TRUE CAR car people.

I mean ya they killed it, am I mad not that mad really, makes my car more special in my eyes. Everyone around my city dislikes the car, but my dads drove it to work a few times and people were just like WTF?! told them they've never saw a fiero that nice with a growl.

Let Pontiac/GM bring the excuses its crap.. the cars gone we know it. Let us see what would've been our car.

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-KC

1988 Formula, 3.4 modified 5spd
75 NX (Nitrous) 100% polly
3800 SC comin 03'

[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 10-30-2002).]

Give it up, GM will not do anything that will threaten their sacred cow the Corvette. That's the real reason the Fiero was killed and will never resurface again.

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They're going to hear from me. If anybody has an email or snail-mail address, you could save me some time. PM me or email me. TIA

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President, CFOG-International

Hey check this out. www.pontiworld.com.au/newsletter/july2000/page2.html
There are a couple of good shots of 89's. I don't know it they are still at " the warehouse" Nowing the current mind set at Pontiac, they are probibly gone. The person that runs the warehouse also runs Pontiac Historic Services. His name is Jim Mattison. His e-mail address is www.phs-online.com Remember that GM is run by bean counters. Bean counters have no compassion for autombiles. I know I married a bean counter. To her a car is a car. Remember what Sloan said back in the 20's "GM is not in the business of making cars, but in the business of making money". That is what GM is all about!!!!!!!!!! Also, Pontiac-GMC is currently run by a woman. I doubt that she has ever sat in a Fiero! She's probibly the one that is having all the 89's and 90's sent to the crusher. Now if we can get to Mr. Lutz, he is the only one at GM that has any compassion for sporty automobiles. Maybe if we bombard Jim Mattison at PHS, with requests for any Fieros that have not been crushed, to be at the 20th Anniversity this next summer, maybe we can have some of these to look at. I have besides our Fiero, a 2001 Pontiac Grand Am that is leased. If Pontiac wants me back as a customer when the lease is up, they had better change their mind set! My $.02 worth

Dumb decisions. Not GM! We all know about the Fiero. GM says there's no money in making Fieros, huh. FIRST lets spend $$$$ making a prototype of a car that won't make $$$$. SECOND after we make that prototype, lets kill off this car line (Fiero). THIRD, lets really screw things up and let some of the other manufacturers make $$$ off of a 2-seat car because we can't sell a 2-seater car. I mean we (GM) only sold 26,XXX Fieros in '88, with very little advertising. After all, we are GM and we still have the Camaro and Firebird we can sell as sports cars. And after the Fiero, lets build the Saturn. We'll start it in '91.And did you know EVERY '91-'93 Saturn had to be adapted to PREVENT POTENTIAL ENGINE FIRES! (damn that must have been expensive for GM)FOURTH,(several years later) lets kill of the Camaro and Firebird because we are all a bunch of idiots and we need to make more SUV's because everyone knows that people need these and no-one else makes them. We all (at GM) learned our lesson about the "fun" cars (Grand National, Impala SS, Syclone, "89 GTA with 3.8 Grand National engine, I know there are many more) because everyone wants practical front wheel drive cars (Bulls**T!). Lets keep the 'Vette (for now) and our many trucks and SUV's. Let's make pontiac fun again, we'll call this the Aztec. Now we can fall that much more behind the other auto makers. Hell, at this rate Chrysler will probably pass us up (Do you think Mr. Iacocca will come and bail us out? He's already worked for Ford and Chrysler why not GM?)FIFTH, lets kill off Oldsmobile, it's only been around for 100 years. Maybe it wasn't a good idea to make the same damn car and put Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and even Cadillac badges on it. Everyone wants a Cavalier with a cadillac badge on it (right?). We'll call it a Cimmaron and sell these for a long time! Dumb decisions, no way!

Sorry this is so long, GM really pisses me off! As Red Forman (that '70 show) would say DUMBASS!

This is the kinda crap I can't stand about GM. They were going to kill the Corvette too, did you know that??!!??!! Several big wigs at GM went over Management heads to buil the first prototype to prove that it could be done. Man they can make some really dumb decisions.[/QUOTE]

Wow I sure caused a lot of trouble and got someone demoted... over this??

don't know if I should feel good cause the car was still alive or bad cause look at the people that are mad in the forum. If i hadn't have posted "found this at a street rod show (Fiero GTA)" all this wouldn't have happened.. I also gave Robert Holtz the info and contact he needed to get this car to the 20th show. I feel bad that someone got demoted since he seemed eager to help us.. He thought that the idea of the 90 and some other choice Fiero's in their stock was a wonderful idea to bring to the celebration. He knew that we would enjoy it and not start an uproar that GM killed it.."hopefully"
Well i'm the one that started this and i'm not done yet.. ah heck this should be easier than gettin Bob to OPEN up the Custom class at the 20th show.. there's gotta be a way for both to happen and to all those in the forum, I'll try to get the prototype to the show..

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Does anybody know how to contact Michael Moore? He's the guy who made the movie where he tries to meet GM Chairman Roger Smith. I'm serious... if you have a clue how to contact him, let me know! Meanwhile, here's some good reading.

Seems I answered my own question... there's an "email Mike" button at the bottom of that page!!! Well, well, well...

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 10-30-2002).]

I want to say "thank you" for your pictures. I've saved them on disc. As for being pissed, i've been pissed at GM since May '88.
don't know if I should feel good cause the car was still alive or bad cause look at the people that are mad in the forum. If i hadn't have posted "found this at a street rod show (Fiero GTA)" all this wouldn't have happened..

hey... they're right
it's a great car, but the general public has a pretty lwo opinion of the fiero

and seeing as how pontiac is really careful about their image nowadays with lutz at the head.. yeah.. it's unfortunate

that's the most beautiful thing i've ever seen. god, why didn't they make that??? they would've made a killing. man, ponitac is so stupid......

I wonder if collectors & enthusiasts of all other automotive makes & models would help send a message to GM.

This is why we at CFOG-I think it's important to make friendships with the outside world!!! An offense against one is an offense against all.

Help me collect contact information for all the clubs, car museums, magazines, and anyone else you think would help spread the message of disapproval. I'll write, call and email every one of them to request their help.

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 10-31-2002).]

Thought I might pop a picture of the car fresh out of the mold into this thread. Photo dated 01-08-88 on back of originals. This car absolutely mezmorizes me!!

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Fred Bartemeyer
Chairman Heartland Fieros
http://www.heartlandfieros.com
86 GT 4spd 26k miles
87 GT 5spd. Blue 37k miles
88 Silver T-Top Formula 265,000 miles
87 GT 5 spd Annette's Sunshine Driver
88 GT 5 spd Annette's Daily Driver

quote Originally posted by 87_GT: This is the kinda crap I can't stand about GM. They were going to kill the Corvette too, did you know that??!!??!! Several big wigs at GM went over Management heads to buil the first prototype to prove that it could be done. Man they can make some really dumb decisions.

When I was researching for the Fiero profile article to be published by Grassroots Motorsports Magazine next year, I learned that the Fiero was shelved several times by GM.

But Hulki went against their edicts every time (jeapordizing himself and his job) to continue the project. If it weren't for the persistance of Hulki, and the CAFE legislation, we most likely would never have seen the Fiero.

Thank You Hulki!!

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George Ryan
Performance Director
CFOG-I

How about we all chip in and help finance Smooooth GT to make a few 90 style Fiero bodies, and then go drive them to the Anniversary get together.
That should get thier attention.

Lowkey,
The number of people that have come to shows across the country to see the great potential of Fieros and the number of people who have already "had a friend that owned one..." is pretty steep in regards to informed/ignorant ratio. Im afraid that the Fiero will be right down there with the Corvair as the footnotes of the automotive history. It wouldn't surprise me if they changed the badge on the prototype just to keep the Fiero name out of the public eye.

Cheever, ever optimistic.
The automotive world at large is an unforgiving, unforgetting, facts-be-damned population. Read any past review article or comparison involving the Fiero and you'll see nothing but double standards and ignorant rantings. (David E. Davis comes to mind....)It seems that anyone who knows which way to loosen a nut thinks they know all about the POS Fiero. In my experience, the ones that truly know automotive engineering can appreciate the Fiero.

My example is when this one guy was curiuos about our Fieros at a POCI event and was asking a lot of questions and telling us some of the engineering advantages that he had heard about that every Fiero owner knows by heart. Turns out that he was one of the guys that helped to design the Chaperal race cars. Every other person that looked down their nose at our cars was just another motorhead vomiting out the same crap told to them by other ignorant people.

Maybe its different where you are Cheever, but around here, ignorance is still behind the wheel of Hondas.

And these freakin Hondas are everywhere.

[This message has been edited by WKDFIRO (edited 10-31-2002).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WKDFIRO:
[B] It wouldn't surprise me if they changed the badge on the prototype just to keep the Fiero name out of the public eye.

this was on the show board that was at the drivers front wheel

there was no "hidding the name", it was in plain site

I say Archie steals this here car

with his traveling band of V8 conversionists and slapps the biggest V8 in it and shows GM what name this car could take on if it were released...ohh something along the line of

"VETTE KILLER"

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Steven Rossi
2M4 Cadero Converted GT

Whoa! I stand corrected!

How did that car get out of the vault?!

The sad thing about the Fiero is that it had the styling and everything of a car in the years to come. I still have not seen a uniquely designed car to hit the roads since the Fiero. The body styling is totally its own. Back in the 80's the Fiero was the Ferrari of the future. I was reading an article once that said the Fiero outhandled the Corvette, Mr2, and Rx7 in 1987 and about every other category. I would love for the Fiero to come back, but as it stands I think we really have a history and not very many people see the success in owning a Fiero which we will be having for many more years. If the Fiero came back then everyone would have one and start doing things to them. There are not too many Fieros left that are in good standing which is very neat for most of us as we all are in route to have a very nicely completed car that can say something for the Fiero of the 80's. Also I was reading another article where the Fiero was so hyped back in the 80's that the production people from the Corvette design were checking out what went in the Fiero design and how it was so awesome. That shows something for us as well. All in all the Fiero's success was unknown and for the price people got them for back then was very good as Vette owners were getting ripped for nothing. We have a special car that will live in history.

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1987 GT 5 spd: 2.8L
(15.57 @ 87mph)
1988 Formula 5 spd: 3.4
(15.56 @ 84mph)

quote Originally posted by stevenrossi: I say Archie steals this here car with his traveling band of V8 conversionists and slapps the biggest V8 in it and shows GM what name this car could take on if it were released...ohh something along the line of [b]"VETTE KILLER"[/B]

IS NOTHING SACRED TO YOU PEOPLE!!

quote Originally posted by lurker: maybe we should be writing to [b]saturn suggesting they build a plastic-bodied, space-framed, sporty, mid-engine 2 seater. they're already doing 2 out of the four.[/B]

I agree with the idea of having Saturn build it... BUT, isnt it true that the people who designed the fiero went on to design the saturn.. I think they already know how to make them.

Look at the front bumper of the 90 and then look at the 91 saturns. Hmm...

A saturn is what happens when you take away all of the features of the fiero that make it kick ass.

Saturn = Neutered Fiero?

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: IS NOTHING SACRED TO YOU PEOPLE!!

It was a simple Joke...nothing more

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Steven Rossi
2M4 Cadero Converted GT

If they ever re-introduced the FIero they would have to change the name to something else because the name has, and will associate and haunt the car with fire forever.

They would just need a new name and a good marketing scheme to get it to work.

Every car company has its small sports car, its MR2 spyder, eclipse, s2000, tiburon, now rx-8, mazda miata, and pontiac has the sunfire, the sunfire is such a girly ugly piece of crap it has no chance in its class.

apparently Pontiac is not completely retarted when it comes to realizing the 2-seater market......just REALLY REEEEAAALLLLY slow about re-joining (not that this car will see production mind you)
http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/passion/concept/solstice.jsp

and check this one out, looks like a saturn that just drank a "RedBull"
http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/passion/concept/rev.jsp

I think personally GM did not want the 90 prototype to be shown for several reasons. it would stir up feelings within the Fiero community to rally and get GM to reproduce the Fiero which GM is not prepared to do. GM does not want to make the car because they still have heartburn from the ones they made. 1. the dealerships did not like working on them. 2 GM had spent alot of money developing them. 3. bad press about the engines catching on fire hurt the sales of the car. 4 It would not pass new standard federal crash test. 5 they would have to spend alot of money to develope the car. 6. they are more worried about their F-body fans and are scrambling to please them. 7. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$