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89/90 Fiero Prototype body kit by IROC
Started on: 04-08-2003 10:19 PM
Replies: 13
Last post by: perkidelic on 04-18-2003 11:34 AM
IROC
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Report this Post04-08-2003 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IROCSend a Private Message to IROCDirect Link to This Post
A long time ago I made a post asking if anyone knew anybody that made a Prototype rebody for the Fiero. There was one person who said that he was developing one. I just wanted to know how far along he is in developing the kit.

IROC

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1986 Pontiac Fiero 2.8
pocket ported, gasket matched complete intake. Still has no nut.
3.4l turbocharged project in process!

http://hometown.aol.com/zigdog16/

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perkidelic
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Report this Post04-08-2003 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for perkidelicClick Here to visit perkidelic's HomePageSend a Private Message to perkidelicDirect Link to This Post
I don't know if it was me that you are referring to but I had talks going with another forum member about building that member one prototype replica, and then producing kits if there was enough real demand ($$$) but it never made it past the initial discussions.

perk

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toddshotrods.com

[This message has been edited by perkidelic (edited 04-08-2003).]

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8Ball
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Report this Post04-09-2003 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 8BallSend a Private Message to 8BallDirect Link to This Post
AusFiero was talking about makeing one, But he got caught up with the stage 2 and stage 3 items. So I am not sure if he is still going to do it or not now.

But I for one would buy it in a heartbeat!!!

Randy

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Fformula88
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Report this Post04-09-2003 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fformula88Send a Private Message to Fformula88Direct Link to This Post
There are still a number of companies making rebodies for Fieros. Maybe the idea should be presented to them. If one thought there was demand, and there was no legal issue to making them from GM, it may get done.
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Coop9200
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Report this Post04-09-2003 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Coop9200Click Here to visit Coop9200's HomePageSend a Private Message to Coop9200Direct Link to This Post
Just a thought here, but wouldn't pontiac want to sue these companies if they made 89/90 fiero replica bodies...Seeing how it's a licensed item. Not to be saying how lambo/ferrari/all other kits aren't infringing on copyright laws in some way or another. So if it were to be created, i guess the dimmensions would have to be slightly smaller to get around the whole copyright issues.

For example ferrari put a couple of companies out of business becuase their replicas were to precise and almost perfect molds of their cars. It would be a good idea, but i guess you would have to be careful as to not get pontiac with their lawyers on your butt....

-Coop

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IROC
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Report this Post04-17-2003 03:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IROCSend a Private Message to IROCDirect Link to This Post
Perk I do remember talking to you about this before, but I didn't talk to you about making my one only. I remember having the conversation about the damand for such a kit. You did tell me that you were working on a secret project (that could of been the prototype kit, shhhhhh lol). So how far along are you with this secret project anyways?

------------------
1986 Pontiac Fiero 2.8
pocket ported, gasket matched complete intake. Still has no nut.
3.4l turbocharged project in process!

http://hometown.aol.com/zigdog16/

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-17-2003 06:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
I dont think someone (like Pontiac) can sue you for something like making copies of a car thats never been produced. Itd would be like me 'saying' I have a cancer cure but Im not going to produce it, so no one else can make one.
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TRiAD
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Report this Post04-17-2003 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TRiADSend a Private Message to TRiADDirect Link to This Post
Actually Roger, it's just like any other design work or piece of art; it does not have to be produced in any numbers to still be owned by the person (or company) who produced it.

However, I don't see why Pontiac would care in this instance, since it was never produces (and never will be, in that form), they stand to lose nothing (except possibly licensing fees) if it were produced.

This is a kit I've looked into making as well, but I was going to intentionally shorten the overhangs on it and see how it looked. The whole F-body "caddy length on a chevette wheelbase" never appealed to me in the slightest.

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perkidelic
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Report this Post04-17-2003 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for perkidelicClick Here to visit perkidelic's HomePageSend a Private Message to perkidelicDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IROC:

Perk I do remember talking to you about this before, but I didn't talk to you about making my one only. I remember having the conversation about the damand for such a kit. You did tell me that you were working on a secret project (that could of been the prototype kit, shhhhhh lol). So how far along are you with this secret project anyways?

Yeah I think that was the prototype kit that I was referring to. The project is officially a dead duck. It was only a "secret" because it was just a discussion and I didn't want to raise hopes for something that might not happen. That is what the case turned out to be because the individual who was interested in having the first replica built decided not to do the project, for whatever reasons. The production molds would have been taken from that car.

perk - todd's hot rods

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IROC
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Report this Post04-17-2003 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IROCSend a Private Message to IROCDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by perkidelic:

Yeah I think that was the prototype kit that I was referring to. The project is officially a dead duck. It was only a "secret" because it was just a discussion and I didn't want to raise hopes for something that might not happen. That is what the case turned out to be because the individual who was interested in having the first replica built decided not to do the project, for whatever reasons. The production molds would have been taken from that car.

perk - todd's hot rods

Don't give up on the project perk! Im sure there has to be at least 50 people that would want a kit. If you got an initial list of people would you start to produce the kit?

------------------
1986 Pontiac Fiero 2.8
pocket ported, gasket matched complete intake. Still has no nut.
3.4l turbocharged project in process!

http://hometown.aol.com/zigdog16/

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perkidelic
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Report this Post04-18-2003 02:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for perkidelicClick Here to visit perkidelic's HomePageSend a Private Message to perkidelicDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IROC:
If you got an initial list of people would you start to produce the kit?

If I had enough people seriously interested in the kits I would definitely consider it. By seriously interested I mean interest shown in the form of dollars. There would have to be enough of a collective fund to cover the cost of developing it though.

This is usually where these types of projects stall. Most people would like to have something like this but not enough to put their money on the line for it. I have learned my lesson about doing things on a friendship basis to help someone out, so now I handle things as professionally as possible.

It would take enough people committing, with actual deposits, to cover the cost of development, and legal fees for agreements between my company and the customers, and between us and GM. Making that happen is a serious task in itself, and one which I do not have the time to pursue. Building and selling the first car, molds, and kits would be my end.

Be it a group, a company, or an individual, I would also be willing to make the same deal as I offered before which is that the original "investors" would also share in the profits (if it actually produced one), because it was their money that made it possible. Everything would be done with bonafide legal agreements, for the protection of all parties involved. Also there would be pretty much an open door policy for the original group, during the development, so the could sleep better knowing what's happening with their money.

perk - todd's hot rods
perk

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Report this Post04-18-2003 05:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Direct Link to This Post
What about these "magic plates" that the new back end mounts to?

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Old Lar
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Report this Post04-18-2003 08:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarDirect Link to This Post
At least perkidelic you have the realistic expectation of getting some upfront funding for any design and development project. If you are serious, you'd need to set up a business plan and come up with realistic costs for development and production of X numbers of kits.

I can only guess that those costs will far exceed what anyone on the forum would be willing to invest for an unknown quality product.

Many current kits cost $3-5K for the completed kit. How much of that is pay back for the design and creation of the molds? Once the first one is done correctly and all the bugs are worked out, the rest are just replication and time plus raw materials. But that first one will be the costly one.

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perkidelic
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Report this Post04-18-2003 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for perkidelicClick Here to visit perkidelic's HomePageSend a Private Message to perkidelicDirect Link to This Post
Excellent insight Old Lar, sounds like you have experience in such dealings. I have way too much going on with my business to spearhead this project, and to work out a realistic business plan - but I am willing to contribute. If the people who want a kit are really serious I would advise formally assembling themselves as a short-term partnership (actually an LLC would be a better format). They would develop, or have developed, a plan to realize their goals. They would hire an attorney, accountant, and whatever other professional services needed. Then they would contract my company, or whomever they chose, to build X amount of kits. When the kits were delivered the partnership is dissolved and each member has what they desired.

What I can contribute is just what I am doing now - advice; and I can provide preliminary estimates that would go into the business plan. If the group so desires I can also build and produce the kits.

There is another hidden advantage to using this method - GM can't sue. They can't sue a person for duplicating something they see - as long as it's not for profit. If the sole purpose of that partnership is to produce X number of kits for the members, and that there was not an active business goal to reproduce and sell kits at a profit, the owner of the intellectual property rights can't really bother you.

Then, if there is sufficient demand for more kits that group, or the company that produced the members' kits, can approach GM to obtain a licensing agreement to legally replicate their property.

I am not trying to find a way to pry open PFF wallets, just trying to help. You guys could actually take the advice in this thread and do the whole project with some other company. I would not be mad and would still be willing to give advice and help however I could cuz I know how bad some of the members here want that car.

On the same token, I am in business to make money - bottom line. That is why I will not investment my company's money into such a project, and will only pursue it if we are getting paid, at least a nominal fee, for our contribution. When a business looks at a potential product they think just how Old Lar was saying it. How much is this going to cost me to develop and produce, how many will I have to sell to break even, what kind of overall profit can I expect from the project, will the intended market support that goal, how does this stack up against other options I have.

That last one is the killer for me. I have so many other projects that I can do easier and make far more on (short and long term) that this project just doesn't make sense for me - from a business standpoint. I have a goal of hiring a nice sized team, paying them really good wages (with full benefits), and donating lots of money to good causes, one day. I can only reach those goals if I make some serious money.

Another advantage to a partnership having enough kits made for their own personal use is that it actually comes out a little cheaper. When you eliminate the need to realize a profit things changes significantly. All you need is enough to cover the costs of development. The tooling to produce the kits is much cheaper too. A mold to do 1000 parts is going to be much more expensive than one to produce 50. Brackets, etc., can be simple handcrafted items - as opposed to production line items that may require expensive tooling to replicate faithfully. For example, I may be able to buy a $200 tool to make fifty parts, but that tool may fail or deteriorate when asked to do a thousand. A thousand parts that are within an acceptable tolerance may need to be stamped - dies must be made. When that is necessary the larger the order the cheaper part becomes, and so on and so on.

Like I said I will help you guys to the best of my ability, and don't have to make a dime from you (of course you don't get quite as much for free )

perk - todd's hot rods

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